Commuter Rail for Atlanta (buy, schools, living)

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Mossberg

WTF does the view that rail systems would open upscale neighborhoods for more blacks to commit crimes. Do people honestly thing this would matter? I mean, come on. They act as if blacks don't have access to cars to visit those very same neighborhoods right now.

This is the most retarded chit I have ever heard of. I could steal a car right now and go to any upscale neighborhood I want to and none of you could stop it. Why does a damn new train station in a burb mean that crime is now all of a sudden able to be committed. I have officially lost faith in the sanity of human beings (especially the snobby ones).

You have a good point. A criminal can easily do that. Most people don't think of that.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by mr_evergreen

It is more than crime they are scared of. If they see the "undesirables", they will get scared.

boo hoo. Pathetic crybabies, the lot of them.

[Mossberg]

They are scared of the boogeyman.

[atlantagreg30127]

I don't fault people for being leery of crime, but there's a difference between "caution" and "paranoia", too.

Ok, I lived in Brookhaven back when the MARTA station was being built. When it opened, we did see an increase in certain crimes in the neighborhood. It was more like younger teens who don't drive who rode around during summer when school's out causing trouble here and there, but the biggest noticeable thing were bums. Atlanta does have a pretty damn huge problem with bums downtown, and in that sense yes, you do see them riding around to wherever the rails go. Most just stay on the trains to keep cool/warm/dry, but a few wonder off and start roaming around the station and we did see an increase in that once the station opened. That being said, we did not see people robbing entire homes and trying to get away with the loot via a MARTA train, either, hence where people cross over into the paranoia.

The fact is though, that the suburbs are already car-saturated. People who live in Gwinnett or Cobb or Cherokee already have cars. If they want to have transit and dissolve any paranoia, they should just build the rail stations in industrial areas of each county with large parking lots and not within walking distance of any residential neighborhoods. They would still take thousands of cars off the roads, yet not allow wondering panhandlers to roam around subdivisions and freak out the suburbanites, etc. Hard-core criminals are going to drive to an area and do their deeds... all this does is get rid of what you'd call the "irritating" part of riding rails (getting hit up for money, etc).

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

I don't fault people for being leery of crime, but there's a difference between "caution" and "paranoia", too.

Ok, I lived in Brookhaven back when the MARTA station was being built. When it opened, we did see an increase in certain crimes in the neighborhood. It was more like younger teens who don't drive who rode around during summer when school's out causing trouble here and there, but the biggest noticeable thing were bums. Atlanta does have a pretty damn huge problem with bums downtown, and in that sense yes, you do see them riding around to wherever the rails go. Most just stay on the trains to keep cool/warm/dry, but a few wonder off and start roaming around the station and we did see an increase in that once the station opened. That being said, we did not see people robbing entire homes and trying to get away with the loot via a MARTA train, either, hence where people cross over into the paranoia.


The fact is though, that the suburbs are already car-saturated. People who live in Gwinnett or Cobb or Cherokee already have cars. If they want to have transit and dissolve any paranoia, they should just build the rail stations in industrial areas of each county with large parking lots and not within walking distance of any residential neighborhoods. They would still take thousands of cars off the roads, yet not allow wondering panhandlers to roam around subdivisions and freak out the suburbanites, etc. Hard-core criminals are going to drive to an area and do their deeds... all this does is get rid of what you'd call the "irritating" part of riding rails (getting hit up for money, etc).

This is what upsets me. What about the college student who doesn't have a car and can't get a ride from someone. What about the person who as to work and doesn't have a car. What about those people. How does one get around in a metro where the transit system is poor? And don't give me that "if the person doesn't have a car he or she wouldn't be able to live in the suburbs." There are people in the suburbs who don't have cars. The metro Atlanta area is relatively cheap compared to most metropolitan areas. Back to the people without cars. I don't have a car(and can't afford one) and I go to college in the suburbs. The area is served by CCT, but that system is full of crap. What if I need a job and I can't find one where I live. I have to get a job somewhere else. What if it was you who didn't have a car. No one thinks of that. All that people think of are the "bums" floating around. Well, going from Cobb County to Gwinnett County is like trying to go from one country to another. It takes forever to get to Gwinnett on the transit. This si why the MARTA rail should be extended(for the people who need jobs).

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Figment 07

"You're not from around here, are you?"

We have brown haze on days when our Air Quality index is bad and we get air quality reports, right along with weather and traffic.

Thus you will continue to hear the advice, even pleas to "Live near your job!". For our lungs' sake.

I live in the metro Atlanta area and the "brown cloud" has often gone out into the exurban areas(Paulding County for example). I don't think alot of people care if they have the "brown cloud" as long as they don't have to see the "undesirables" around. Pollution, cloggged highways, 45 minute commutes. The MARTA rail being extended makes too much sense that it is ridiculous we haven't done it. Chicago and Washington,DC are doing it. Why arean't we? Besides crime, what are people afraid of? I think they aree afraid of the "undesirables". I'm not an "undesirable". I am a college student who can't afford a car and I know some people who don't have cars. They aren't undesirables and yet because of someone else's fear, the people who need the transit can't get to the places they need.

[brian_2]

Originally Posted by mr_evergreen

I live in the metro Atlanta area and the "brown cloud" has often gone out into the exurban areas(Paulding County for example). I don't think alot of people care if they have the "brown cloud" as long as they don't have to see the "undesirables" around. Pollution, cloggged highways, 45 minute commutes. The MARTA rail being extended makes too much sense that it is ridiculous we haven't done it. Chicago and Washington,DC are doing it. Why arean't we? Besides crime, what are people afraid of? I think they aree afraid of the "undesirables". I'm not an "undesirable". I am a college student who can't afford a car and I know some people who don't have cars. They aren't undesirables and yet because of someone else's fear, the people who need the transit can't get to the places they need.

I hope Atlanta extends MARTA. Is there the public and political will to get it funded? Maybe. Look where years of ignoring mass transit have gotten Atlanta and those surrounding communities. I lived in another area with bad air - LA. Hopefully they'll come a time soon where the 'my private space, in my private vehicle all the time' will become so unpleasant stress/cost/parking wise that communities will clamor for more rail projects. Park & ride helps take vehicles off the main roads. Population growth is going to continue with more traffic and more fine particle emissions for you and your children - you might not see it, but that doesn't mean you can ignore it. The top three reasons I don't take extended time to visit family in Atlanta is because of the poor air quality, the traffic, and the reliance upon rental cars. I'm tired of hearing my parents coughing on the phone. I'm tired of hearing how bad Atlanta area air quality has become. If LA has made progress improving their toxic blend of air, why can't Atlanta do more?

[atlantagreg30127]

Mr. Evergreen,

What it boils down to, is that there are actually very few cities in the U.S. that have what you might call, "car alternative" transportation systems.

Washington DC, San Fransisco, New York - these are the only three cities that come to mind that have extensive enough rail systems that go to enough places that you could in theory live without a car and still get around to most places in reasonable amounts of time. Maybe you can add Chicago to that, so four cities. So Atlanta is not unique at all in having a system in place, but not one that extends everywhere. Look at rapidly growing cities like Charlotte, Nashville... they're not even starting on a rail system of their own yet, yet are growing nearly as fast as Atlanta. Once they're our size, they'll be in even worse shape than we are now.

The general attitude I think that some people have here that I've talked to is that Atlanta is very much laid out like L.A. - it goes everywhere. It doesn't have mountainous or watered boarders to contain it, so it literally goes in all directions, and it would be almost impossible to build rail that goes from point A to point B, and also goes to points D,E, and Z... just to help out those who don't own cars. Atlanta is the kind of city that needs transit to take cars OFF the road as the main priority, while also providing transportation for those who don't own cars as a secondary goal - cities like New York are flip-flopped.. their transit system is in place because more people than not don't have cars in the city. Atlanta simply isn't laid out like NYC - it's like L.A., and 95% of the people in the metro area as a whole DO have cars (just like in L.A.). When making budgets for transit expansion, officials and voters simply are not thinking about college students who don't yet own cars when they vote. Just the way it is here, though not necessarily elsewhere.

I'd like to see spurs on MARTA - heavy or light rail that extends further into Gwinnett, going into Cobb, and further East and West, with light rail or trolley lines that go into varied intown areas that feed into the heavy rail stations. I don't think you will ever see rail that goes cross-county here from Cobb to Gwinnett directly - there simply isn't enough demand for it by drivers wanting to leave their cars behind, and again, they're not going to factor in carless people when budgeting for a system like that. At best you MIGHT one day see a cross-county bus route or two that runs a few times a day similar to an express route. Regarding rail, more than likely it will always be a system that if you want to go cross-county, you'll have to get on one line, go to Five Points, and transfer to another line, etc.

[JPD]

Folks who oppose MARTA expansion into their counties don't seem to realize that they are about 1,000,000 times more likely to have their car broken into in a downtown parking lot while they're at the office than they are to have their home or car burglarized by someone who rode MARTA out to their neighborhood Gwinnett.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by JPD

Folks who oppose MARTA expansion into their counties don't seem to realize that they are about 1,000,000 times more likely to have their car broken into in a downtown parking lot while they're at the office than they are to have their home or car burglarized by someone who rode MARTA out to their neighborhood Gwinnett.

That is quite interesting. A criminal doesn't need MARTA in order to rob a house. A criminal can just steal a car and drive up there. What we need are police on the trains. Personally, I think it is a combination of issues, ranging from hidden racism(yes, racism), classism, money, and the fact that many people don't like change. Sometimes change is good. MARTA is good. It would really help me if I need to get a job in Atlanta.