Miami vs. Atlanta - cost of living (Decatur, Stockbridge: rent, car insurance)

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet

You are best to try and remember some of that and consider their traffic as well. I still go down there routinely for business and what used to take an hour in Broward is now an hour and a half. Traffic is a wash.

A wash? I can drive from Miramar to Deerfield Beach in 45 minutes during rush hour without crying. I can't even think of one point to another in the whole county that would take an hour and a half. Maybe cursing at a few of the crazy drivers (I guess that makes me rude), but not crying like I was in Atlanta when I had to get from downtown back to my extended stay in Lawrenceville during rush hour every day for a month straight. Your are entitled to your opinions, but to say it's even close to a wash is really delusional. I wouldn't even put Miami-Dade close.

[Caleb Longstreet]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

A wash? I can drive from Miramar to Deerfield Beach in 45 minutes during rush hour without crying. I can't even think of one point to another in the whole county that would take an hour and a half. Maybe cursing at a few of the crazy drivers (I guess that makes me rude), but not crying like I was in Atlanta when I had to get from downtown back to my extended stay in Lawrenceville during rush hour every day for a month straight. Your are entitled to your opinions, but to say it's even close to a wash is really delusional. I wouldn't even put Miami-Dade close.

I never said it was easy. Living with our traffic is usually called "xtreme driving". Miramar to Deerfield....in rush hour? 40 minutes....Obviously you must mean the sawgrass and that's not quite the typical route used for most people for most driving in Broward. I spent 40 minutes last year going north on Nob Hill to Coral Springs from the intersection of Broward and Nob Hill.....at 10:30 in the morning....that same jog 10 years ago cost me 15 minutes.....I think the gap is closing?

And hey, how about that I-95 traffic? Downtown Miami to say, Downtown Ft. Lauderdale is about the same eh? Hmmmmmm, last time I tried that it was a full hour and 5 minutes and believe me, I run with the best of them down there......

So the difference is almost nil for most of the driving. You picked a very select and fortunate route if you used the Sawgrass. Take Miramar to I-95 North and it might be a bit different.

I will concede this, overall it' slightly better down there but not by much. It's closing daily. I still go down there as I mentioned and I can literally see the difference in the last 10 years.

It's always been lousy here. Miami/South Florida is closing the gap....and closing it quickly.

[compelled to reply]

OK, two things...

1. Who the hell takes Nob Hill Rd from Coral Springs to Plantation? Why wouldn't "most people" take the Sawgrass or the turnpike? They built it so people could get places faster as the side streets got more congested. It's already been widened since you left to deal with increased volume (it wasn't even backing up yet). With sunpasses so cheap now there is no excuse. 20 years ago there were less traffic lights, which explains the shorter amount of time coming down Nob Hill. There was also no Sawgrass Expressway, no six lane turnpike, etc, etc...that's not "traffic" anyway, that's taking a crappy, outdated route that might have been good in 1988 and sitting at 100+ traffic lights. The (many) highways are almost ALWAYS moving full speed (exception short stretch I-595 at rush hour moving at around 35-45 or so), unlike the Atlanta area.
2. I don't have the story at the moment, but traffic volumes actually DECREASED by 1% in Broward County last year, presumably due to the exodus towards your area.

The rest, whatever, your entitled to your opinion. I personally would call the difference in traffic better than slight.

[Caleb Longstreet]

I guess the same guy that could figure out that if one needed to go to a building at say, the intersection of Sample and Nob Hill? Yeah, maybe that guy might take that and avoid the 3 Westerly swing to the sawgrass, toll, and scenic tour although I have to admit, I did that too from time to time......the time spent was the same, just more miles and a few tolls.

Yeah, traffic decreased when people bailed from their homes and headed everywhere. I guess that 3/2/2 in Weston wasn't really worth the $490K they paid for it afterall.....

[MisterNY]

Look at you....You sure came far to defend South Florida, didnt you?...Lol......(dont take the comment too seriously)...Yes, Sawgrass is Godsent if you do that route, but if not, try taking 595 to downtown Ft Lauderdale, coming from Pembroke Pines in the morning. I still say traffic down here is better than Atlanta, but just about everything else, Atlanta wins hands down. To defend Caleb Longstreet, he never said it was worse than Atlanta either.

[compelled to reply]

Once again, why would you even take that route? My job depends on driving so maybe that's why I know, but I would take one of the north south roads (preferably 75 or Flamingo) up to Griffin from Pines, take Griffin to about Davie Rd, then get on 595. Viola, traffic past, and not that many lights that route either. Just use that as advice and tell me how you like it. Griffin was recently widened and they decided to time the lights right too, I often manage to make it all the way from Weston Rd all the way to University without hitting many/any lights. In the afternoons, 595 is usually fine in my experiences (except bottleneck at University Dr), and if it's not, Griffin is your friend.

Caleb didn't say it's worse, he just said it's a wash. But if you must, there are many other things that are worse in Atlanta that can be factually proved

*Pollution
*Crime rate
*Schools (believe it or not)
*Overall tax burden (state income tax)
*Racial tensions

Many things better too such as
*Job market
*Overall cost of living
*More trees/shade
*More pleasant people (yes, I said it although I can't actually prove it by fact)
*Public transit (sucks both places but Atlanta is trying).

Everything else IMO is subjective. I think objectively they both have their problems and pluses, I don't even think they really outweigh each other, it just depends on what your situation is. As I say, nutcase by nutcase basis.

[Caleb Longstreet]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

OK, two things...

1. Who the hell takes Nob Hill Rd from Coral Springs to Plantation? Why wouldn't "most people" take the Sawgrass or the turnpike? They built it so people could get places faster as the side streets got more congested. It's already been widened since you left to deal with increased volume (it wasn't even backing up yet). With sunpasses so cheap now there is no excuse. 20 years ago there were less traffic lights, which explains the shorter amount of time coming down Nob Hill. There was also no Sawgrass Expressway, no six lane turnpike, etc, etc...that's not "traffic" anyway, that's taking a crappy, outdated route that might have been good in 1988 and sitting at 100+ traffic lights. The (many) highways are almost ALWAYS moving full speed (exception short stretch I-595 at rush hour moving at around 35-45 or so), unlike the Atlanta area.
2. I don't have the story at the moment, but traffic volumes actually DECREASED by 1% in Broward County last year, presumably due to the exodus towards your area.

The rest, whatever, your entitled to your opinion. I personally would call the difference in traffic better than slight.

Hey, to each his own. I lived in both and for me, and perhaps just me, it's better overall here. Traffic stinks, always had, always will. Regardless, it's pretty tough in any major metro, don't you think?

I don't recall it being easy then and I know from travelling and working down there over the last 11 years it has swelled considerably (I-595). There is probably some relief from those that tired of the hurricanes, the home owners insurance (first 25K is on you? Is that true now?), smaller homes costing in excess of 300K (the market is the market). I guess they moved on and fortunately not all here.

Like I said, great place to visit, have fun, and then leave shortly thereafter.

[Caleb Longstreet]

Originally Posted by MisterNY

Look at you....You sure came far to defend South Florida, didnt you?...Lol......(dont take the comment too seriously)...Yes, Sawgrass is Godsent if you do that route, but if not, try taking 595 to downtown Ft Lauderdale, coming from Pembroke Pines in the morning. I still say traffic down here is better than Atlanta, but just about everything else, Atlanta wins hands down. To defend Caleb Longstreet, he never said it was worse than Atlanta either.

Thanks. Like I said, it's closing the gap, not the same. But to me, and I have to drive all over the damn place when I'm down there just like 11 years ago. From the Homstead to North Palm Beach/Stewart. It's no picnic.

Personally, I like the Turnpike. Seniors avoid it like the plague and it usually has an exit very close to all roads you need going east.

Much like, here, if you are in outside sales, you time the traffic to work for you. I live in Alpharetta so it affords me ample opportunity to get anywhere in off hours fairly effectively. I just don't do rush hour. Same when I lived down there. I worked downtown Ft. Lauderdale and just waited until 6 for the traffic to die. I always left Dade at 4:30 at all costs. The Golden Glades Interchange was always interesting...glad they put that fly-over lane in during the mid-90's.

Miami was always thick, Broward is now just about all full. Oddly enough you can make it across Alligator Alley in 1.25 hours or roughly the time it takes from Downtown Miami to Palm Beach.

Like you said, the traffic and a few other issues are worse here but to compare overall??? You are right, it's better here, hands down.

[Caleb Longstreet]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

Once again, why would you even take that route? My job depends on driving so maybe that's why I know, but I would take one of the north south roads (preferably 75 or Flamingo) up to Griffin from Pines, take Griffin to about Davie Rd, then get on 595. Viola, traffic past, and not that many lights that route either. Just use that as advice and tell me how you like it. Griffin was recently widened and they decided to time the lights right too, I often manage to make it all the way from Weston Rd all the way to University without hitting many/any lights. In the afternoons, 595 is usually fine in my experiences (except bottleneck at University Dr), and if it's not, Griffin is your friend.

Caleb didn't say it's worse, he just said it's a wash. But if you must, there are many other things that are worse in Atlanta that can be factually proved

*Pollution
*Crime rate
*Schools (believe it or not)
*Overall tax burden (state income tax)
*Racial tensions

Many things better too such as
*Job market
*Overall cost of living
*More trees/shade
*More pleasant people (yes, I said it although I can't actually prove it by fact)
*Public transit (sucks both places but Atlanta is trying).

Everything else IMO is subjective. I think objectively they both have their problems and pluses, I don't even think they really outweigh each other, it just depends on what your situation is. As I say, nutcase by nutcase basis.

Pollution, I believe it, we have no consistent breeze to send it to your equivalent of the Islands, South Carolina (LMAO!).
Schools: Your right, I don't believe it. Probably depends on EXACTLY where you send your kid. I was facing Nob Hill Elementary at the time complete with 45 kids per class and no special ed for kids (I have one that needs extra help).
Crime Rate: Wow, probably depends on if you look at the whole area or just Miam versus Atlanta. Atlanta proper actually impoved although I beg to differ. We were 42nd worst city (checked tonight, google most dangerous cities and work from there). Miami used to be right up there too. I think it might be a hard sell to paint Miami markedly different in crime than Atlanta. If you lump all 3 counties there and all 17 here, it would be an interesting stat. I'll try that tomorrow. Be curious to see how many murders Broward, Palm Beach and Dade County total (roughly the same population ? 4.2 million???) and the overall here. Murder is usually a good sounding board/starting point.

Tax Burden: True, all 6% of it...yechhhh BUT, compare that to housing costs, insurance costs etc...etc....the cos of living overall is definitely lower here.

Racial Tensions: True, mostly in the city but, that's not a good overall picture. I still think it's dicier here and you are more likely to have a zebra match here than anywhere but, it's kind of like, mostly in Dade, not so much in Boca, Deerfield, Coral Springs, Weston, Jacaranda, Cooper City? Make sense?

The others, yes, except mass transit. If there were ever a city that needed to improve it this town should. At least you have that metro tri-rail? I'll bet that's popular NOW. Wasn't so much so back then. Both areas need vast, vast improvements. Marta Rail is cute but about only 15% of what it needs to be due to the inordinate long distances people commute.

The rest is very subjective.

[compelled to reply]

I actually don't think murder is a good starting point because most murders are domestic related no matter where. A good starting point is burglary for property crime and robbery for violent crime, as those are crimes with more random victims. All I know is so far, 57 murders in Broward, 59 in Palm Beach. Not sure about Dade. Per capita, Palm Beach is iffy on murder but Broward isn't bad (below natl average). I think as a whole they really are about the same, that IS a category where they are closing the gap IMO. Crime has gone down for years in both places and started to go up in the past year or two in both places. The main difference is that IMO it's easier to find a safe area without isolating yourself from society in South Florida. I.E in Broward County most of the area west of University Dr is fine, in Palm Beach most of the area west of Jog Rd is fine (LOTS of growth west of Jog). In Atlanta it's more of a checkerboard pattern until you get pretty far out.

Then again, I live in Weston and was looking into Druid Hills/Decatur area in GA, so what the hell do I know about crime? Speaking of which, those areas that aren't out in the sticks (intown) can be pretty competitive in price with the better parts of South FL.

I did "face" Western High School a few years ago, as an actual student. I think I came out OK, about 25 per class max. And go figure, I ended up coming back "home". Maybe I didn't come out okay LOL!

As far as the "metro-fail", what a joke. MARTA is actually somewhat useful in some areas and they have that one REALLY nice station! Broward and Palm Beach offer about as much public transit as Gwinett and Fayette County.

Good game !