Oh The Irony! Pre-k for Refugees! (Atlanta: public school, university, cost)

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by JPD

I think you're missing my point. I don't really care what people do with their money. What I find objectionable is you equating poverty with stupidity and gullibility.

Nope, I equate playing the lottery with stupidity and gullibility. I've said in at least one post that plenty of poor people don't play the lottery.

[RainyRainyDay]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

As proven by the fact that per student expenditures in the City of Atlanta and DeKalb Co school systems both exceed that of any private school in the area.

Hmm, here are a couple of link to per student expenditures in the area public school systems
Atlanta Parent Online

and the tuition fees at private schools
Atlanta Parent Online

All these numbers appear to be from 2007, so not perfectly up to date. Have APS and DeKalb expenditures zoomed past the fees at Lovett, Pace, Padeia, Westminster, etc., in the last year or so? That's pretty amazing.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay

Hmm, here are a couple of link to per student expenditures in the area public school systems
Atlanta Parent Online

and the tuition fees at private schools
Atlanta Parent Online

All these numbers appear to be from 2007, so not perfectly up to date. Have APS and DeKalb expenditures zoomed past the fees at Lovett, Pace, Padeia, Westminster, etc., in the last year or so? That's pretty amazing.

This was actually reported about two years ago...yes, I was amazed by that as well.
I'm guessing it's due to the layers of administration that the private schools aren't burdened with.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Nope, I equate playing the lottery with stupidity and gullibility. I've said in at least one post that plenty of poor people don't play the lottery.

And plenty of people who aren't poor play the lottery.

So, in your opinion, are we exploiting the poor or are we exploiting the stupid? I don't see how it can be both.

[RainyRainyDay]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

This was actually reported about two years ago...yes, I was amazed by that as well.

Reported where? I don't believe it.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Actually that's two separate assumptions. We as a culture place less value on education. And actually your second point supports my first one. Not only do we not put the money into education, we don't put the time and energy into it either. Thus supporting my first point. Most Americans are not involved enough in their children's education (or their lives, period, but that's an entirely different conversation). So no, it's not all about the money, but from my observations we have little interest in putting forth the money OR the time.

Certainly, I know that in general most Americans don't give a darn about children because I spent years working for legislation that would benefit children, only to see it go down in flames time and again. In fact, if we cared about children all these lotteries and whatnot would be unnecessary, we'd be willing to pay to fund education for ALL our children as simply a human right. Heck, we won't even fund a basic humanitarian function like healthcare for all children, so why would we feel any differently about education?

And here's the thing, in those other countries you've mentioned, they don't try to educate ALL their children. So really, comparisons are meaningless. If we followed their model, we would only be educating about a third of our children past a certain point. So, for our percentage of GDP to be about the same, is rather misleading. Our percentage of GDP should be higher because we're trying to do something totally different. Though, to my observation we're really not, but we certainly claim to be.

Originally Posted by neil0311

You make two false assumptions, in my opinion, the first being that Americans as a whole don't care about education, and the second being that money spent is an indicator of a successful education system, and that we don't spend enough.

On the first point, I think there are some Americans who place less value on education, because it was never a priority to them, but to say generally that "Americans don't care" is a giant leap. What is your proof that backs up that bold assertion?

On the second point, it has been shown time and again, in charter schools and other non-traditional schools that money spent isn't the be all, end all. Parental involvement, curriculum, student motivation, and teacher qualification play more important roles. The US states spend on average more in absolute dollars/pupil than Japan, Germany, the UK, and many other western countries. We spend right in line with these and other developed nations in percent of GDP spent on education (~5% to 6%). Maybe it's where the money goes and not how much is spent? Where do you think we don't spend enough, how much more would you spend, and where would you get that money?

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Certainly, I know that in general most Americans don't give a darn about children because I spent years working for legislation that would benefit children, only to see it go down in flames time and again.

Maybe it wasn't them? Maybe it was your plan?

[RoslynHolcomb]

And plenty of people who aren't poor play the lottery.

So, in your opinion, are we exploiting the poor or are we exploiting the stupid? I don't see how it can be both.

Nope, we're exploiting the stupid poor. Which, of course is not ALL the poor.

As for other groups playing the lottery, I think any number of studies indicate that the overwhelming majority of the people playing the lottery are poor.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Maybe it wasn't them? Maybe it was you and your plan?

Actually, it wasn't my plan. It was Governor Bob Riley's plan. A plan which was even supported by such groups as the National Christian Coalition, The Wall Street Journal and all manner of other non-liberal groups. Keeping in mind of course, that Riley is conservative Republican. And even he was unable to convince the people that you have to pay for a decent education system. Of course, Americans are addicted to free labor and we've had generations of politicians who pander to that.

Other similar legislation went down in flames in other states, so it's clear that Americans really don't care.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Do you have something against crunchy, low-key people?

I don't understand the term "crunchy". That some sort of granola reference?