Oh The Irony! Pre-k for Refugees! (Atlanta, Decatur: credit, to buy, preschool)

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I rarely deal in anything other than facts and truth.

Many situations are composed of varying shades of gray, not black and white, and statistics are wonderful things for misrepresenting a given situation.

According to Clotfelter and Cook, two Duke University economists who did a study of the lottery in Maryland, most lottery players earned less than $10k per year. You might want to check out their book, Selling Hope: State Lotteries in America. I found it an eye-opening read.

If one works 40 hours per week, even minimum wage provides $12k or so per year, so they seem to be talking about people who aren't even working at a fulltime job.

Are a lot of them students, perhaps? Housewives with part-time jobs?

Most of the folks I know who play things like bingo or hit casinos on a regular basis are students, housewives, and retired people. All relatively low income, and all people with time on their hands, but none of them the stereotypical "poor people" we always hear about. FWIW.

Sounds like an interesting book, BTW.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

It was shot down by popular vote. Of course the public school system is intended to do that, but when you have a 30% drop-out rate (50% in some areas), it can hardly be argued that it's actually working. Like anything else, it's all in the implementation.

I personally don't think the problem is the school system in most cases, but rather a reflection of the lack of outside support systems. Without parental support, some kids are simply not motivated enough to go through with it.

I know enough folks who teach in public schools for a living to know that school teachers have enough to do without also having to play parent.

If I were dictator of the US, kids who didn't graduate from high school could not be citizens. No diploma, no vote.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Those countries deprive students of choices. So you think we should limit academic education to those students who are "deserving" of it? The rest can go into a trade or vocation?

So if we kept the current system and educated anyone who wanted to be educated, in your opinion, how much more do you think needs to be spent, where would you spend it, and how would you raise the additional money you feel is needed? What is the "more"?

It's not my choice to make. And it seems to me that the American people have already decided that issue anyway. IMO, we either need to stop asserting the platitude of universal education, which we aren't providing, OR actually provide it. Right now we're lying through our teeth.

As I've said before it's not simply an issue of money, it's also an issue of involvement of Americans doing what is necessary to improve our system. It would require parental involvement, an increase in expenditures and a bottom up re-vamping of our educational system. As to how much it would cost, I have no idea, but it would certainly involve an increase in taxes.

Of course, all this is just whistling Dixie in the wind as I doubt very seriously that any of this will occur. But it's interesting to speculate.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

I personally don't think the problem is the school system in most cases, but rather a reflection of the lack of outside support systems. Without parental support, some kids are simply not motivated enough to go through with it.

I know enough folks who teach in public schools for a living to know that school teachers have enough to do without also having to play parent.

If I were dictator of the US, kids who didn't graduate from high school could not be citizens. No diploma, no vote.

When did I suggest that teachers become parents? I'm a veteran of the social service system. Our motto was: The state makes a lousy parent. NO, I'm a strong advocate of PARENTS being PARENTS. I've also spent an inordinate amount of time listening to parents tell me why that's simply not possible. And even the ones who don't vocalize such nonsense make their views clear by their actions.

I doubt taking citizenship away would have any impact on the drop out rate. By the time the kid is that age he's going to drop out regardless (or be pushed out.) No, the key to preventing drop outs is to engage the child from the very beginning in the education process. A crucial component of that is parents who are thoroughly involved in the process and who feel that education is paramount in their child's life. Unfortunately, as I've said before, here in this country we tend to diminuate education and intellect in favor of brawn and muscle. That's why sports figures are 'heroes' and scientists who eradicate polio are 'geeks.'

[JPD]

Originally Posted by neil0311

The rest can go into a trade or vocation?

I think students should be encouraged to attend trade or voc. schools.

You make more money as an auto mechanic than someone with an english degree (aka bookstore wage slave), anyway.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

I don't understand the term "crunchy". That some sort of granola reference?

'Crunchy,' at least in my mind are what probably would've been called 'hippy' a generation ago. (Then again, given my 'child-bearing hips' I suppose I could still be called 'hippy.' We're green, grow our own veggies, we're very family focused concerned about the environment, that type of thing.

[RoslynHolcomb]

If one works 40 hours per week, even minimum wage provides $12k or so per year, so they seem to be talking about people who aren't even working at a fulltime job.

This book was written more than ten years ago. I don't know what minimum wage was back then, but I doubt if it paid $10k a year. Plenty of folks have worked MORE than 40 hours a week and never cleared $10k a year. I should know, my mother was one of them.

[JPD]

Pants haven't been washed in weeks, so they make a crunch sound.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by JPD

I think students should be encouraged to attend trade or voc. schools.

You make more money as an auto mechanic than someone with an english degree (aka bookstore wage slave), anyway.

Unfortunately, these days with the high-tech circuitry in cars you practically need a doctorate to work on them! We have a situation where kids have been in school for ten or more years and can't even pass the GED. It is a major problem and speaks of a significant education system/parent/child disconnect.

[pinetreelover]

Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay

Hmm, here are a couple of link to per student expenditures in the area public school systems
Atlanta Parent Online

and the tuition fees at private schools
Atlanta Parent Online

All these numbers appear to be from 2007, so not perfectly up to date. Have APS and DeKalb expenditures zoomed past the fees at Lovett, Pace, Padeia, Westminster, etc., in the last year or so? That's pretty amazing.

As private school annual fund callers will tell you - tuition does not completely cover the cost of educating the student. Private schools are dependent upon donations to annual funds, fine arts alliance, booster club, capital campaign...and so on, and so on, and so on.... Therefore, I don't think you can make a direct comparison between these figures.