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Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JahNissi
Thank you for making my point! I'm not trying to defend Christianity because I'm not a 'believer'. I just think thats it's ironic when atheists get on their intellectual high horse and try to 'school' Christians when they are guilty of the same blind faith that they are accusing Christians of.
It is my personal belief that anyone who presumes to know the answer about whether or not $DIETY exists is exercising faith at some level.
Since there doesn't appear to be definitive and conclusive proof of $DIETY's existence one way or other, one either has to trust a source of authority who claims to know, or one has to extrapolate beyond existing evidence to some sort of conclusion on their own.
I'm an agnostic for a reason. It isn't because I'm "copping out" as some folks would say, it's because I don't see conclusive evidence either for or against some $DIETY's existence. Though I would like to believe He exists in some form, and I personally kinda believe He does in a hopeful sort of way. I've seen too many "coincidences" in my life to think it's an impossibility, anyway...
It is my personal belief that anyone who presumes to know the answer about whether or not $DIETY exists is exercising faith at some level.
Since there doesn't appear to be definitive and conclusive proof of $DIETY's existence one way or other, one either has to trust a source of authority who claims to know, or one has to extrapolate beyond existing evidence to some sort of conclusion on their own.
I'm an agnostic for a reason. It isn't because I'm "copping out" as some folks would say, it's because I don't see conclusive evidence either for or against some $DIETY's existence. Though I would like to believe He exists in some form, and I personally kinda believe He does in a hopeful sort of way. I've seen too many "coincidences" in my life to think it's an impossibility, anyway...
You should look more into Taoism. I think you would find it interesting. Here's a little excerpt on the spiritual aspect of it: Taoists believe that man is a microcosm for the universe. The body ties directly into the Chinese five elements. The five organs correlate with the five elements, the five directions and the seasons. Akin to the Hermetic maxim of "as above, so below", Taoism posits that man may gain knowledge of the universe by understanding himself (wikipedia).
You can find that similar concept in most any religion, hence the Christian concept of "man made in God's image." I started seeing that concept over and over in several religions and tried to get to the bottom of it. That's what give me my personal concept of God/Creator/Universe. It is obvious in nature that there are many harmonies and non-coincidences just as there are in our lives. This is where I find something bigger than my self but yet, all at once, one with myself as I am part of it and it is part of me. I don't believe in a puppet master up in the sky somewhere but instead the connection of all beings. To me, that is what makes the most sense and appeals to my logic and understanding.
It is my personal belief that anyone who presumes to know the answer about whether or not $DIETY exists is exercising faith at some level.
Since there doesn't appear to be definitive and conclusive proof of $DIETY's existence one way or other, one either has to trust a source of authority who claims to know, or one has to extrapolate beyond existing evidence to some sort of conclusion on their own.
I'm an agnostic for a reason. It isn't because I'm "copping out" as some folks would say, it's because I don't see conclusive evidence either for or against some $DIETY's existence. Though I would like to believe He exists in some form, and I personally kinda believe He does in a hopeful sort of way. I've seen too many "coincidences" in my life to think it's an impossibility, anyway...
I'm with you. Great way to put things. Well said!
Quote:
Originally Posted by karrobe
You should look more into Taoism. I think you would find it interesting. Here's a little excerpt on the spiritual aspect of it: Taoists believe that man is a microcosm for the universe. The body ties directly into the Chinese five elements. The five organs correlate with the five elements, the five directions and the seasons. Akin to the Hermetic maxim of "as above, so below", Taoism posits that man may gain knowledge of the universe by understanding himself (wikipedia).
You can find that similar concept in most any religion, hence the Christian concept of "man made in God's image." I started seeing that concept over and over in several religions and tried to get to the bottom of it. That's what give me my personal concept of God/Creator/Universe. It is obvious in nature that there are many harmonies and non-coincidences just as there are in our lives. This is where I find something bigger than my self but yet, all at once, one with myself as I am part of it and it is part of me. I don't believe in a puppet master up in the sky somewhere but instead the connection of all beings. To me, that is what makes the most sense and appeals to my logic and understanding.
It's not bad. I looked into it. It's more of a spiritual state than a religion.
It's not bad. I looked into it. It's more of a spiritual state than a religion.
Yeah it is more spirituality and philosophy. I believe that's the route to truth, personal truth, which is most important and so necessary for real happiness and fulfillment.
Pot calling the kettle black? Thinking outside the box is reading and regurgitating something from a web site? How do you know that these things are facts? Because people wrote them down? Because they are historical?
You are not getting the point of what karrabe is saying. The point is that the stories portrayed in christianity come from these other stories that PRE-DATED christianity.
In other words, people set around and said "Hey, lets make a new religion!" They looked at other religions and religious people before and
rewrote it in a different way.
Every knee shall bow and tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD! You can choose to bow NOW or BOW LATER............... I'd choose now if I were you.
I realize that I already responded to this but I reread what you said again and I just had to add this...
How arrogant true christians are to claim that their god is the only true god. Out of all the gods that people believe in and out of all the religions in the world, you just said that EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue should confess that JESUS is Lord. Well, what about people who live in deep jungles who never in their lives have contact with ANYONE who believes the way you do? Or what about someone who is Mormon who belives that a man who saw a vision in a forest deserves high accolades.
I asked a preacher that question one time, he had the nerve to say that god will overlook their ignorance of him and basically give "those people" a pass. ARROGANCE!
What makes YOUR religion and god rein above anyone else's. I once had this conversation with my mother who is religious. I said to her..."Ma, would you follow a religion in which people believe that magic underwear could provide protection against temptation and evil. She said that she would not and she started laughing hysterically. Well, there is a religion (Mormons) that does actually believe that. We all kind of snicker at the thought of that. But yet, we want to believe that people live in whales and snakes talk in a garden and a woman was made from a man's rib.
To me THAT is just as FUNNY! And people have the audacity to feel that the ENTIRE world should believe in a god called jesus. Just like you sit around the dinner table and pray to your god, someone halfway around the world is doing the SAME thing to their god. Now what makes yours better than theirs?
I realize that I already responded to this but I reread what you said again and I just had to add this...
How arrogant true christians are to claim that their god is the only true god. Out of all the gods that people believe in and out of all the religions in the world, you just said that EVERY knee shall bow and EVERY tongue should confess that JESUS is Lord. Well, what about people who live in deep jungles who never in their lives have contact with ANYONE who believes the way you do? Or what about someone who is Mormon who belives that a man who saw a vision in a forest deserves high accolades.
I asked a preacher that question one time, he had the nerve to say that god will overlook their ignorance of him and basically give "those people" a pass. ARROGANCE!
What makes YOUR religion and god rein above anyone else's. I once had this conversation with my mother who is religious. I said to her..."Ma, would you follow a religion in which people believe that magic underwear could provide protection against temptation and evil. She said that she would not and she started laughing hysterically. Well, there is a religion (Mormons) that does actually believe that. We all kind of snicker at the thought of that. But yet, we want to believe that people live in whales and snakes talk in a garden and a woman was made from a man's rib.
To me THAT is just as FUNNY! And people have the audacity to feel that the ENTIRE world should believe in a god called jesus. Just like you sit around the dinner table and pray to your god, someone halfway around the world is doing the SAME thing to their god. Now what makes yours better than theirs?
Caramel, there's a lot you don't know about Christianity. Your mocking makes you appear foolish. Certainly, some Christians who are simple, decent folk do literally believe some improbable things. Learned professors of theology have a more subtle understanding. Suppose a person observed some poor rural Americans and then made fun of "Americans", as if those people were representative of all the people of this country. In both cases, the poor and simple are our fellow Christians, or fellow Americans and we do not disown them ... but their ways are not the whole story about Christians, or Americans respectively.
Caramel, there's a lot you don't know about Christianity. Your mocking makes you appear foolish. Certainly, some Christians who are simple, decent folk do literally believe some improbable things. Learned professors of theology have a more subtle understanding. Suppose a person observed some poor rural Americans and then made fun of "Americans", as if those people were representative of all the people of this country. In both cases, the poor and simple are our fellow Christians, or fellow Americans and we do not disown them ... but their ways are not the whole story about Christians, or Americans respectively.
Thank you for your comment but I am not just referring to the sterotypical
"simple" christians. I am referring to ALL christians and people of ALL religious faiths. I am referring to the most intelligent to the hillbillies. Religion is a fake comfort for people who can't deal with the realities that life brings...in my opinion.
Additionally, it is not my intention to "make fun" of religious people. What I wish is that people will REALLY start to THINK about what they believe in and QUESTION. Be real with yourself and say to yourself....damn that really doesn't make sense. Do I really believe that EVERY species on this planet fit on a boat (Noah's Arc)? Do I really believe a snake talked to Eve? How can Adam and Eve who had two SONS populate the Earth (incest)?
Ask your ministers, preachers and priests your questions and see if they fumble and bumble with their answers or give you an answer that makes even less sense than what you were talking about in the first place.
Thank you for your comment but I am not just referring to the sterotypical
"simple" christians. I am referring to ALL christians and people of ALL religious faiths. I am referring to the most intelligent to the hillbillies. Religion is a fake comfort for people who can't deal with the realities that life brings...in my opinion.
Additionally, it is not my intention to "make fun" of religious people. What I wish is that people will REALLY start to THINK about what they believe in and QUESTION. Be real with yourself and say to yourself....damn that really doesn't make sense. Do I really believe that EVERY species on this planet fit on a boat (Noah's Arc)? Do I really believe a snake talked to Eve? How can Adam and Eve who had two SONS populate the Earth (incest)?
Ask your ministers, preachers and priests your questions and see if they fumble and bumble with their answers or give you an answer that makes even less sense than what you were talking about in the first place.
Caramel, you doofus, I've taken a bunch of grad school theology course and my spouse is an ordained clergy person. Your notions about what Christians believe are quaint and absurd.
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