What's Middle Class? (Nelson: neighborhood, buy, school)

[kaday]

Originally Posted by Merin

Our household income is about 200k combined. My husband is a Finance Director I am an Executive assistant. 5 years ago we made less then 100k combined, we were on a budget then and to this day we are still on a budget. The dollar amounts haven't increased too much, because I do not believe in the make more spend more philosophy. I am all about saving, because you never know what will happen. The only noticeable increases are the amounts we spend on our 2 big vacations a year, and Christmas presents for our parents.

Exactly. We would probably have more disposible income if we didn't save as much as we do. We don't have any debt outside one car and our mortgage and we do not live extravagantly by any stretch of the imagination. My spouse makes 200K as an attorney and I work part time in fundrasing which only helps pad the college savings. We save the max for retirement and the max for college educations. We have an extremely expensive healthcare plan because one of our children has serious medical issues. That is our biggest yearly expense outside of our mortgage. I realize we are doing well but we are not wealthy or swimming in cash by any means (we also had to pay for 3 pairs of braces this year ). We keep the same budget we have always had. The difference is when big unavoidable expenses come up, we don't have to scramble to pay for them.

[Merin]

Finance- Hopefully I am not one of the people who gives you the impression that we are struggling. I am about saving and know where to get some deals.

[financelife]

I don't know if you are Merin. My comments are general I guess. I do know in times of recession that all classes cut down on unnecessary expenses.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by Scraper Enthusiast

If my household income were at $200,000, we'd definitely be "rolling in the dough".

If it's just you and your wife...maybe, but I don't think so. Do you have children? Do you own a home? Do you save for your children's education? Do you save for your retirement? Do you pay taxes?

Maybe the expectations in Georgia are less than in other parts of the country, but $200K for a family of 5 isn't all that spectacular in many places. I'm not crying poverty and don't have to worry about my next meal, but we're certainly not living high off the hog. We have an average house in West Cobb, 2 nice but average cars (no SUVs or gas guzzlers either), my kids attend public schools...but we have no debt besides the house...I pay as I go and I save my money.

[VirtualM]

I'm kind of in the mindset that $200k is a lot of money, far more than we see every year. Spouse works in a 'creative' job, making less than $50k, but we own a small company on the side and I freelance and teach at a community college part-time so I can stay at home with my kid (by choice.) We still bring in less than $100k a year, but we own two homes (perhaps not in neighborhoods that most $200k+ people would live in within the city of Atlanta, but we're often feeling adventurous), we have a decent savings, we have a 401k, and we have no debt except for our house, and that includes me getting an advanced degree (aka no school debt.) We drive modest, paid-for cars and even use public transportation sometimes. Reading forums like this make me want to scratch my eyes out - there's just a sense of entitlement and I don't understand how people who make over twice as much as we do feel financially oppressed. Call me confused. I consider myself 'middle class.'

[Merin]

I don't feel oppressed, but I do feel middle class.

[RainyRainyDay]

Originally Posted by VirtualM

I'm kind of in the mindset that $200k is a lot of money, far more than we see every year. Spouse works in a 'creative' job, making less than $50k, but we own a small company on the side and I freelance and teach at a community college part-time so I can stay at home with my kid (by choice.) We still bring in less than $100k a year, but we own two homes (perhaps not in neighborhoods that most $200k+ people would live in within the city of Atlanta, but we're often feeling adventurous), we have a decent savings, we have a 401k, and we have no debt except for our house, and that includes me getting an advanced degree (aka no school debt.) We drive modest, paid-for cars and even use public transportation sometimes. Reading forums like this make me want to scratch my eyes out - there's just a sense of entitlement and I don't understand how people who make over twice as much as we do feel financially oppressed. Call me confused. I consider myself 'middle class.'

+2 for you, VirtualM.

There are some very informative charts here: Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In particular, we see that a total of 15.73% of US households (that's households, not individuals) make $100K or more. That breaks down into:

$100K to < $150K: 9.89%
$150K to < $200K: 3.17%
$200K to < $250K: 1.17%
$250K and above: 1.50%

Less than 3% of US households bring in $200K and above, per year. The top 3% of anything is not in the "middle". Median US household income is around $50K. I could buy arguments that the "middle class", income-wise, is relatively small and is located in some portion of the $50K to $150K household income range. But the $200K earners, no matter how financially oppressed they do or don't feel (and I do fully acknowledge that most of the upper-income folk who've been posting here report that they are not complainers, they're savers), are not middle-income. They're upper-income.

[AtlMuslimah]

Originally Posted by VirtualM

I'm kind of in the mindset that $200k is a lot of money, far more than we see every year. Spouse works in a 'creative' job, making less than $50k, but we own a small company on the side and I freelance and teach at a community college part-time so I can stay at home with my kid (by choice.) We still bring in less than $100k a year, but we own two homes (perhaps not in neighborhoods that most $200k+ people would live in within the city of Atlanta, but we're often feeling adventurous), we have a decent savings, we have a 401k, and we have no debt except for our house, and that includes me getting an advanced degree (aka no school debt.) We drive modest, paid-for cars and even use public transportation sometimes. Reading forums like this make me want to scratch my eyes out - there's just a sense of entitlement and I don't understand how people who make over twice as much as we do feel financially oppressed. Call me confused. I consider myself 'middle class.'

It's all in the perception of the person whose looking at whether a six figure income is "rich or rolling in the dough". They don't take into account that these individuals making a six figure income; are in a higher tax bracket, have family to support, debt and other liabilities, and are probably taking care of aging parents, plus trying to save for their childrens' education and their own retirement. Same would go for a person that's at or below the poverty level looking at individuals earning a higher income than them.

[kaday]

Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay

+2 for you, VirtualM.

There are some very informative charts here: Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In particular, we see that a total of 15.73% of US households (that's households, not individuals) make $100K or more. That breaks down into:

$100K to < $150K: 9.89%
$150K to < $200K: 3.17%
$200K to < $250K: 1.17%
$250K and above: 1.50%

Less than 3% of US households bring in $200K and above, per year. The top 3% of anything is not in the "middle". Median US household income is around $50K. I could buy arguments that the "middle class", income-wise, is relatively small and is located in some portion of the $50K to $150K household income range. But the $200K earners, no matter how financially oppressed they do or don't feel (and I do fully acknowledge that most of the upper-income folk who've been posting here report that they are not complainers, they're savers), are not middle-income. They're upper-income.

I hear what you are saying. But food for thought, living in the New York metro area making a similar income we were not able to save money. Our lifestyle while still good by most standards was much less than here. Our property taxes alone were three times higher than in Atlanta.
It is really about where you live. My brother in law and is family live in Indiana make significantly less money (less than half) but have a very similar lifestyle. Their house cost less than $100K, their taxes are lower etc. In Indiana at our salary we would most definaitely be upper income. A lot of it is where you live. $50K in some areas can go a long way, so can $200,000 or not a long way for that matter. So to look at those charts can be very decieving.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by financelife

I make $100K with wife, and if by miracle we got a $100K increase in pay, I would definitely be rolling in the dough.

I'm roughly in the same boat as you, and that would be nice. :-) I could pay off the rest of the debt we incurred during my layoff, and then I could get a little bit more serious about my investment portfolio. As in "it would be nice to have one again"...