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Old 02-08-2007, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,031,516 times
Reputation: 3995

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt6974a View Post
Well, as a software programmer myself, I wouldn't say Atlanta is a great IT market. It's decent but not great. I'm trying to find a new job now and it's not nearly as easy as it was straight out of GT 4 years ago. I'm actually having a hard time and I have BS from Tech in CS, 5 years experience, Microsoft and Java certs.
That's true all over the country.

Folks who are fresh out of school are seen as inexpensive and impressionable, and probably willing to work longer hours for less pay.

Experienced people often find themselves pigeonholed (it isn't what you know at all anymore, it's what you did in the past 24 months or so at your most recent gig) and unable to find a new place to work. Not only are folks looking for technical skills, but they also want recent experience in a very similar line of business or they don't consider you to be a qualified applicant.

I worked with a lot of people at NWA up in Minneapolis until just after 9/11 hit and a few hundred of us got axed, and it took some of us a LONG time to find permanent employment again even though our technical backgrounds were solid and fairly generalized.

That's why I'm in Atlanta. After two years without permanent work up there I widened my search to include the rest of the US. That's what it took.

 
Old 02-08-2007, 01:26 PM
 
1,755 posts, read 5,672,328 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner View Post
That's true all over the country.

Folks who are fresh out of school are seen as inexpensive and impressionable, and probably willing to work longer hours for less pay.

Experienced people often find themselves pigeonholed (it isn't what you know at all anymore, it's what you did in the past 24 months or so at your most recent gig) and unable to find a new place to work. Not only are folks looking for technical skills, but they also want recent experience in a very similar line of business or they don't consider you to be a qualified applicant.

I worked with a lot of people at NWA up in Minneapolis until just after 9/11 hit and a few hundred of us got axed, and it took some of us a LONG time to find permanent employment again even though our technical backgrounds were solid and fairly generalized.

That's why I'm in Atlanta. After two years without permanent work up there I widened my search to include the rest of the US. That's what it took.
Thats funny... well not funny but ironic, I was at Delta airlines. I was there 2 weeks before my first pay cut, then got another, then didn't get a promotion (not raise) I was promised. Delta was about to go bankrupt so I got out.

Next job was pretty sweet but company went belly up, I've done some contract work since then but it ended in December so now I'm on the hunt again.

You're correct though in the 'recent' skills category, unlike other industries where they experience dictates your ability to perform a job, in ours, it's what skills have you done lately. That's why I want out.

I have java and ms certs, only for my resume. I don't really think they're that valuable. But the difference b/t java, c#, and c++ is pretty minute in the eyes of an everyday programmer. Switching from one to the other isn't that hard, it's OO but in the eyes of an employer that's not enough.

Thats why I'm sticking with C#/ASP.NET, it's the latest and greatest, so it should be good for a while, at least until I can get out of development.
 
Old 02-08-2007, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Tallahassee, FL
8 posts, read 29,521 times
Reputation: 12
This all very good info.

In November I applied for jobs in Houston. At the end of the first week, I had 3 interviews lined up.... and of course tons of emails from job hunters. (Plans changed so I didn't actually go to the interviews.) The job I have now, I got within two weeks of the start my job search in Tallahassee.

As far as my resume:
C++,C#,VB.NET, ASP.NET,SQL,OLAP,Reporting Services, JAVA, JavaScript, more and more on the Windows platform.
Plus a whole product designed by me, plus I've been programming since I was 7.

I love development and, not to be arrogant, but I'm probably near as good as it gets when it comes to 1 year of real experience.

The time frame could also be two months or maybe even 3, but based on my Houston experience... 3 interviews a week... I'm not too worried. Of course, feel free to tell me otherwise... brutal truth helps!

A lot of people are saying Austin for IT... and my career is going determine which city I choose. Not to mention, to be on safe side, I could also be applying for jobs in Dallas and Houston at the same time.

Thanks for the tech talk. What I read builds ATL in IT, but if it's health care, finance, etc. I'm not too interested.

Would Austin have more companies based on physical technology, science, robotics, Google-like stuff, etc?
 
Old 02-08-2007, 05:37 PM
 
1,755 posts, read 5,672,328 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbitiousProgrammer View Post
This all very good info.

In November I applied for jobs in Houston. At the end of the first week, I had 3 interviews lined up.... and of course tons of emails from job hunters. (Plans changed so I didn't actually go to the interviews.) The job I have now, I got within two weeks of the start my job search in Tallahassee.

As far as my resume:
C++,C#,VB.NET, ASP.NET,SQL,OLAP,Reporting Services, JAVA, JavaScript, more and more on the Windows platform.
Plus a whole product designed by me, plus I've been programming since I was 7.

I love development and, not to be arrogant, but I'm probably near as good as it gets when it comes to 1 year of real experience.

The time frame could also be two months or maybe even 3, but based on my Houston experience... 3 interviews a week... I'm not too worried. Of course, feel free to tell me otherwise... brutal truth helps!

A lot of people are saying Austin for IT... and my career is going determine which city I choose. Not to mention, to be on safe side, I could also be applying for jobs in Dallas and Houston at the same time.

Thanks for the tech talk. What I read builds ATL in IT, but if it's health care, finance, etc. I'm not too interested.

Would Austin have more companies based on physical technology, science, robotics, Google-like stuff, etc?
Not trying to hurt your ego, but you are arrogant, fact is you've only been out for 1 year. I started at 14 (legally working), stuffing circuit boards, soldering, programming, etc. If you have some internships/co-op they'll look at that but they won't give it much thought, seriously.

You have all those languages but the only ones that count are the one's you've used in your work experience. I have java certs and have never once used java in 'professional' work, so it doesnt count.

If I mentioned everthing I've every programmed in it would look like this:
c, c++, cobol, assembly, smalltalk, scheme, lisp, java, vb, vb6, vb.net, asp, asp.net, php, basic, javascript, vbscript, pearl script, ado, ado.net, html, dhtml, css, sql, t-sql, pl/sql, uml,

Fact is your still younger, you should pick something you like and go with it, in Atlanta you're probably looking at around $50K. What language did you use in your last job? what database did you use? Those should be what you concentrate on inside your resume and your search for a job, unless you want to switch.

For the tech stuff you want to work on, I'd probably suggest Calif(Silicon Valley), Denver/Colorado Springs, New York suburbs.

Robotics is a bust unless you go graduate. I know I concentrated in AI when I was in school, but had databases as another concentration b/c I knew that was where the money was. However, if you can get into a company that does automation, supply chain, etc. You could do some cool stuff, big market coming in is RFID.

I'd suggest you look at Lockhead if you can get in, I've been trying to get in for a while but being mid developer it's hard. They want stone cold rookies or many years. They do alot of cool stuff. And they're all over, GA is a small market for them but CO and NY are a big market.

CO is a great place to live as well, I took a year off from school and lived out there as a ski bum, If your up for relocating, I'd seriously consider it, although it's more liberal and not libertarian.

You have your Intels and Microsoft all over but Intel isn't looking so hot right now. My buddy, trying to finish up his PHD, has interned with them in Arizona and Washington state. Another buddy moved last year to Redmond to work for the Evil Empire(Microsoft). The left coast may be better for what you're trying to do.

Better to do it now than later. Again, not being mean but 1 year, a CS degree from a great college really means squat.
 
Old 02-08-2007, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Tallahassee, FL
8 posts, read 29,521 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt6974a View Post
Not trying to hurt your ego, but you are arrogant, fact is you've only been out for 1 year. I started at 14 (legally working), stuffing circuit boards, soldering, programming, etc. If you have some internships/co-op they'll look at that but they won't give it much thought, seriously.

Better to do it now than later. Again, not being mean but 1 year, a CS degree from a great college really means squat.
I appreciate you response and your honesty. However, I have to put my input into this considering that there may be other people reading this who are in a similar position.

I'm not trying to get the best job out there ever. I'm trying to get a software engineering job in a different city than Tallahassee preferably in the fields I indicated. B/C I always a positive response from companies when my resume was online or when I was applying to jobs in Tallahassee, I think I can get a job within 3 months.... completely based on results thus far and not my ego. I wasn't just spouting out languages but that's what I program in currently or in the past year:
C++, C#,VB.NET,SQL,OLAP,Reporting Services, JavaScript, XML/XSLT, InstallShield

I've known fresh grads that have gone straight into $55K jobs. My brother actually dropped out of college. He had less than "squat" and helped start up a company when he was 22 and quickly became the CTO. There are going to be companies that are going to consider someone with one year of experience as not a big deal. Some are considering that certain one year programmers a big deal -- I know b/c I work for a company like this.

Now, I really don't want to argue about this... my post is really to get feel for Atlanta and if Austin may a better choice. I'm going to do what I'm going do, and if you're right... ouch, I'll get over it. All in all thanks though, b/c the rest of the stuff you said did help.
 
Old 02-08-2007, 07:24 PM
LLD
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
654 posts, read 3,067,623 times
Reputation: 224
I'd suggest you ask your questions about Austin in the Austin forum. As a quick comment, I'd say the scientific areas you are more interested in might not be in Atlanta. However, you should check out Georgia Tech Research Institute -- research arm of GA Tech -- lots of military funding there I believe. Some of the things you are interested in are going on at the national labs like Sandia in Albuquerque, Oak Ridge in Tennessee, NIST in the DC area, and several in California and I would suspect Seattle too.

Scientific programming and robotics are going to be done much more in the R&D areas of companies like IBM or in government labs or universities.
 
Old 02-08-2007, 07:31 PM
 
1,755 posts, read 5,672,328 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbitiousProgrammer View Post
I appreciate you response and your honesty. However, I have to put my input into this considering that there may be other people reading this who are in a similar position.

I'm not trying to get the best job out there ever. I'm trying to get a software engineering job in a different city than Tallahassee preferably in the fields I indicated. B/C I always a positive response from companies when my resume was online or when I was applying to jobs in Tallahassee, I think I can get a job within 3 months.... completely based on results thus far and not my ego. I wasn't just spouting out languages but that's what I program in currently or in the past year:
C++, C#,VB.NET,SQL,OLAP,Reporting Services, JavaScript, XML/XSLT, InstallShield

I've known fresh grads that have gone straight into $55K jobs. My brother actually dropped out of college. He had less than "squat" and helped start up a company when he was 22 and quickly became the CTO. There are going to be companies that are going to consider someone with one year of experience as not a big deal. Some are considering that certain one year programmers a big deal -- I know b/c I work for a company like this.

Now, I really don't want to argue about this... my post is really to get feel for Atlanta and if Austin may a better choice. I'm going to do what I'm going do, and if you're right... ouch, I'll get over it. All in all thanks though, b/c the rest of the stuff you said did help.
Well, all I can do, as others on here, is advise you on the process in Atlanta, which I have. I'm not saying you're not a smart guy, fact is I know the process.

Yes, 22 year olds can start companies and be succesful, fact is it's not common. Internet Security Systems was founded by a junior drop out from Tech, and now their new CS/EE/CompE building has his name on it, but you can't get an interview with them w/o a degree and w/o experience.

If you've actually worked with that many languages in the last year, it will hurt you. You'll go thru technical interviews and they'll easily be able to weed you out. Yes you may be a genius at all languages you mentioned but If I was betting in Vegas, I'd vote against you.

I'm just trying to give it to you straight from one developer to another and I'm no slouch myself.
 
Old 02-08-2007, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
702 posts, read 2,522,725 times
Reputation: 291
You can be confident and proud of your credentials...it doesn't necessarily mean your'e arrogant. Maybe I'm not feeling it because it's not my profession, but I don't think so...keep your optimism and don't let and negative nancies ruin your party.

(ok, cartman called kyle a negative nancy one time...i thought it was hella funny)
 
Old 02-15-2007, 03:00 AM
 
117 posts, read 391,278 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by vasinger View Post
Its very un-southern. If you want southern charm, you have to try Richmond, Charleston, or Savannah.

I couldnt wait to get back home to Richmond.


-- I found your comments interesting. I lived in Richmond for a while and loved it, but didn't find it to be more southern than Atlanta. I found the opposite. I found a much friendlier population in a city that's much better laid out with much fewer disgruntling road layouts than Atlanta. Richmond was a comfortable, easy place to be, it seemed, in contrast to Atlanta with the excessive focus on materialism. Richmond's a far more progressive area . . .
 
Old 02-15-2007, 03:04 AM
 
117 posts, read 391,278 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprtsluvr8 View Post
What year did you live in Atlanta? Your description is seriously not correct. The trend for 5-10 years (since the '96 Olympics) has been people moving into the city. Midtown and Downtown have been sprouting highrise condos and apartments and the development hasn't slowed at all. There are great in-town neighborhoods with lots of different choices - Home Park, Virginia-Highland, Little 5 Points, Kirkwood, E. Atlanta, Morningside, Midtown Heights, Midtown, Cabbage Town, Inman Park, Candler Park, 4th Ward, Druid Hills, Emory area, Atlantic Station...I'll stop, but all of these neighborhoods are nice ones and in the city. The burning of Atlanta was in 1865, so I think there has been a lot of residential construction in 150 years...

The charm thing isn't worth refuting...I think Atlanta is very southern, but it all depends on how you define southern.
-- What is southern or charming about construction and the replacement of trees with concrete and steel? THAT is what takes away from some of the southern element, then on the other hand, closed-mindedness dramatizes southernness. And 'southern hospitality' is some sort of oxymoron.
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