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Answer: When it’s lack of population, i.e. a sufficient tax base; causes it to furlough police and firefighters.
I put your argument about density right up there with my, “But we’ve got two Nordstrom’s” comment. At the end of the day, does it really matter how much more dense Atlanta is than Charlotte if, 1) Charlotte is still the larger city in population, and 2) if Atlanta just laid off 700 city workers?
I'm sorry dude, but Charlotte is out of it's league dealing with Atlanta. digging up info on the Internet about negative things that are happening in ATL is not going to change that. Every major city has it's problems. The issue that Charlotte has with ATL is it's size and status. Atlanta is a BEAST. You can add all the major MSA's in NC and barely pass Atlanta's MSA if you pass it at all. I represent NC, but I'm not delusional.
In some respects, Charlotte has "caught" Atlanta, and passed it. For example, in population. In 1980 the city of Atlanta had a population of 400,000, while Charlotte only had 300,000. Fast forward to the new millenium, the city of Charlotte now has a population of almost 700,000, while Atlanta only has about 500,000. Atlanta has always had a conflict between its city and surburbs. Unfortunatley, there are a lot of inner city dwellers there who don't understand the importance of having a healthy, growing center city. For too many years, many were all too satisfied with the white flight that was occuring. Now, its coming back to bite the city. The fact that only 10% of Atlanta's metro population lives within the city limits has major negative implications to its tax base. Case in point, all the city layoffs Atlanta had last year.
From the article below...
"Property taxes represent the largest chunk of the city’s revenue —- 28 percent —- but that’s lower than other similarly-sized cities. By contrast, more than 60 percent of Charlotte’s revenues last fiscal year came from property taxes."
Article: 'We are fighting for our survival' | ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/services/content/printedition/2009/05/03/atlbudget0503.html?cxntlid=inform_sr - broken link)
Time and time again its been said. Charlottes city limits are larger that's why the city pop is more. For example look at jacksonville its city limits are huge. With almost 800.000 people but but when you look at jax its doesn't look like its has that many people same said about charlotte. Charlotte does not look like it has that many people. Miami and atlanta are citys with small city pops and large metros its obvious they are bigger than charlotte. If atlanta had the same city mileage as charlotte, atlanta would be over a million .
Answer: When it’s lack of population, i.e. a sufficient tax base; causes it to furlough police and firefighters.
I put your argument about density right up there with my, “But we’ve got two Nordstrom’s” comment. At the end of the day, does it really matter how much more dense Atlanta is than Charlotte if, 1) Charlotte is still the larger city in population, and 2) if Atlanta just laid off 700 city workers?
I cannot believe you cannot see why density matters.Let me explain it to you.When there are more people in closer areas,usually there are increased things to do in a "closer"areas.Such as:
1)More public spaces.They become better designed and more creative.(like Atlantic Station or parks like Centennial,Piedmont and Grant Parks.
2)More public institutions like colleges and universities.This intern creates more wealth and a better more educated class of citizens.It also brings more "worldly"people.People who travel more.
3)A more educated populace,in turn brings more business.(like Nordstorms..lol).It also creates business that are more exclusive.Therefore you get influences from other places throughout the world.
4)Better transportation options.Like heavy rail(not LIGHT RAIL...all nine miles of it)
How can Charlotte be anywhere near Atlanta when based on those criteria and other things?Let's ask a few simple questions.
Atlanta has many major U.S.universities.Many of them ranked very high.A few are as follows:
1)Emory Univ.
2)Morehouse College
3)Georgia Tech.
4)Georgia State Univ.(almost 30,000 students)
5)Agnes Scott College
6)Ogelthorpe Univ.
7)Savannah College of Art and Design
8)Clark Atlanta Univ.
there are more but that's off the top of my head of the ones that have a national and international appeal.
Charlotte has:
1)U.N.C.-Charlotte(great school but not ranked)
2)Johnson C. Wales Univ.(?)
There are a couple of others but very minor.
And how about cultural institutions?Compare
Atlanta has:
1)The Fernbank Museum(the largest Natural history museum South of D.C.)
2)The High Museum
3)Michael C. Carlos Antiquities Museum(also largest in the South)
4)Georgia Aquarium(largest in the world)
5)Martin Luther King Jr Historic National Center
Charlotte has :
1)NASCAR Hall of Fame(no comment needed)
I honestly don't know what else.I could do a search but WHY?If people never heard of any of the places ,then their not noteworthy enough to be mentioned.
Atlanta financial problems has NOTHING to do with the cities population.Nor does it reflect how great the city is or isn't.The city has been growing since the late 90's!!It's growing at a faster rate than Charlotte..by a long shot.We are not even talking about the suburbs.
Atlanta is also a regional powerhouse because of its influence.Think of it.Consider the following:
A)Atlanta has CNN,,Turner Broadcasting Company,Tyler Perry Studios,The Weather Channel,Cox Communications,The Travel Channel
B)The Center for Disease Control(the only government agency headquartered outside of D.C). Every time there is a public health emergency(i.e.. Swine Flu),you hear of Atlanta.When Do you hear of Charlotte?
C)Hartsfield-Jackson Airport(busiest airport in the world with The airport offering direct flights to 95 cities in 57 countries.)How many at Douglas for all those people in Charlotte?Oh I forgot, you have to drive to Atlanta for a direct flight to Seoul or Madrid.
D)The Federal Reserve Bank the Sixth District
Sure you can go to a nice restaurant in Charlotte,but what about a top rated national one?The same goes with hotels.Like the Ritz Carlton.The W ,Intercontinental,The Four Seasons or soon the Manderin Hotel.
How about a Broadway play?
Truth is that you can while in Atlanta do things in Atlanta that you cannot do in Charlotte.The quality of the few things that you can do in both differ in Quality.Atlanta is nothing even close to NYC,but at least most things you can do in NYC you can do and experience in Atlanta.Atlanta is a Beta World City like Miami,and Denver and Minneapolis.Charlotte is no where NEAR that scale. Charlotte will someday come close but unless Atlanta has a catastrophe worse than the city laying off 700 workers from an already bloated city government,there is NO WAY in Hell Charlotte could EVER compete with Atlanta.No matter how many big banks they have.
Time and time again its been said. Charlottes city limits are larger that's why the city pop is more. For example look at jacksonville its city limits are huge. With almost 800.000 people but but when you look at jax its doesn't look like its has that many people same said about charlotte. Charlotte does not look like it has that many people. Miami and atlanta are citys with small city pops and large metros its obvious they are bigger than charlotte. If atlanta had the same city mileage as charlotte, atlanta would be over a million .
People are often blined by the truth.They want so badly to compete.Charlotte is like the younger less succesful sister of Atlanta.Desperately trying to get the attention from their Parents.Instead of trying to compare and compete,they want to "tattletale" and complain about what the older sisters doing.Talk about a "Marsha Brady"complex!LOL
[i] am relatively new to these boards. I am astonished at the arguments made. I have been following this one for a while. I live in Charlotte and I do not envy anyone who lives anywhere else especially in a larger city. Atlanta metro is the be all in Georgia. It is the capital of Georgia okay the south too. It has everything. After all of that it still is a large sunbelt city that has as it only distinquishing charateristic miles and miles of sprawl. That is the truth. Sunbelt cities are not dense. Dense would be Philly.
Charlotte and Atlanta are both adolescent cities which are unlikley ever be true dense cities. The same is true for other sunbelt cities. It is just the nature of the beast. When you take away the downtowns which are basically office parks in that they mostly contain office buildings and very limited street life of these cities they be come indistinguishable areas of sprawl with a few small core areas referred to as historical districts.
These cities do over a good quality of life and that is why most people choose them as places to live. Not on the amount of High rises that can be seen from the interstate.
Atlanta as much as it would like to be considered a world class city finds itself being compared to Charlotte NC because people who are not bias see it as being more of a Charlotte than a London. This Charlotte vs Atlanta is akin to two midgets arguing about which is taller.
[i] am relatively new to these boards. I am astonished at the arguments made. I have been following this one for a while. I live in Charlotte and I do not envy anyone who lives anywhere else especially in a larger city. Atlanta metro is the be all in Georgia. It is the capital of Georgia okay the south too. It has everything. After all of that it still is a large sunbelt city that has as it only distinquishing charateristic miles and miles of sprawl. That is the truth. Sunbelt cities are not dense. Dense would be Philly.
Charlotte and Atlanta are both adolescent cities which are unlikley ever be true dense cities. The same is true for other sunbelt cities. It is just the nature of the beast. When you take away the downtowns which are basically office parks in that they mostly contain office buildings and very limited street life of these cities they be come indistinguishable areas of sprawl with a few small core areas referred to as historical districts.
These cities do over a good quality of life and that is why most people choose them as places to live. Not on the amount of High rises that can be seen from the interstate.
Atlanta as much as it would like to be considered a world class city finds itself being compared to Charlotte NC because people who are not bias see it as being more of a Charlotte than a London. This Charlotte vsAtlanta is akin to two midgets arguing about which is taller.
I disagree with some of your points, but that comment is priceless.
[i] am relatively new to these boards. I am astonished at the arguments made. I have been following this one for a while. I live in Charlotte and I do not envy anyone who lives anywhere else especially in a larger city. Atlanta metro is the be all in Georgia. It is the capital of Georgia okay the south too. It has everything. After all of that it still is a large sunbelt city that has as it only distinquishing charateristic miles and miles of sprawl. That is the truth. Sunbelt cities are not dense. Dense would be Philly.
Charlotte and Atlanta are both adolescent cities which are unlikley ever be true dense cities. The same is true for other sunbelt cities. It is just the nature of the beast. When you take away the downtowns which are basically office parks in that they mostly contain office buildings and very limited street life of these cities they be come indistinguishable areas of sprawl with a few small core areas referred to as historical districts.
These cities do over a good quality of life and that is why most people choose them as places to live. Not on the amount of High rises that can be seen from the interstate.
Atlanta as much as it would like to be considered a world class city finds itself being compared to Charlotte NC because people who are not bias see it as being more of a Charlotte than a London. This Charlotte vs Atlanta is akin to two midgets arguing about which is taller.
Some of your points are valid,but anytime someone mentions Atlanta without really getting around town mentions sprawl.Sprawl is nothing unless you live in the suburbs.I do not.The only people that are comparing Atlanta as equal as Charlotte are mainly the one who have never been here.Or they have been here,stayed in a hotel in frickin Marietta or the airport,drove a car into the city went to the Aquarium and the Hard Rock Cafe and they think they seen all of Atlanta.
My point was that you are right to some degree.Atlanta is not dense like Philly or San Fran,but it beats Charlotte by a LONG shot. I was trying to make another poster understand that density IS important, all they could say is that "Charlotte has more people" so they are equal to Atlanta.NOT!!Most people that travel here do not see Charlotte as an equal to Atlanta.Im not saying Charlotte is bad because of that.Charlotte is a great city.It does NOT however compete with Atlanta.Atlanta is Atlanta not because of BUILDINGS its because of people in those buildings and what those buildings represent inside.More company headquarters than any other city behind NYC and Houston.Cultural buildings like the Opera,Symphony,or Musical theaters.Anyway I hate to keep repeating myself.It just seems that there is a lot of S-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g going on with this debate.
I believe that the differences between the two cities are more pronounced to southerners than to those who are from other regions of the nation. I have a Philly and NYC bias in that I spent many Summers and some Winters with relatives who lived there, The Bronx and North Philly. My frame of reference for big cities are from that vantage point. When Atlanta was really becoming popular and growing those relatives would visit me in Charlotte and we would travel to Atlanta and have good times. Their descriptions were and still are the same. Either Charlotte is a "little Atlanta" or Atlanta is a "Big Charlotte." I don't know if that will ever change. I even have friends in Atlanta that make the same comparison between the two. I am perfectly fine with those descriptions. I like both cities and believe that the Southeast is large enough for both.
I believe that the differences between the two cities are more pronounced to southerners than to those who are from other regions of the nation. I have a Philly and NYC bias in that I spent many Summers and some Winters with relatives who lived there, The Bronx and North Philly. My frame of reference for big cities are from that vantage point. When Atlanta was really becoming popular and growing those relatives would visit me in Charlotte and we would travel to Atlanta and have good times. Their descriptions were and still are the same. Either Charlotte is a "little Atlanta" or Atlanta is a "Big Charlotte." I don't know if that will ever change. I even have friends in Atlanta that make the same comparison between the two. I am perfectly fine with those descriptions. I like both cities and believe that the Southeast is large enough for both.
Good post. I wonder if any of the other "information" in this never-ending back and forth is of any use to the OP.
I cannot believe you cannot see why density matters.Let me explain it to you.When there are more people in closer areas,usually there are increased things to do in a "closer"areas.Such as:
1)More public spaces.They become better designed and more creative.(like Atlantic Station or parks like Centennial,Piedmont and Grant Parks.
2)More public institutions like colleges and universities.This intern creates more wealth and a better more educated class of citizens.It also brings more "worldly"people.People who travel more.
3)A more educated populace,in turn brings more business.(like Nordstorms..lol).It also creates business that are more exclusive.Therefore you get influences from other places throughout the world.
4)Better transportation options.Like heavy rail(not LIGHT RAIL...all nine miles of it)
How can Charlotte be anywhere near Atlanta when based on those criteria and other things?Let's ask a few simple questions.
Atlanta has many major U.S.universities.Many of them ranked very high.A few are as follows:
1)Emory Univ.
2)Morehouse College
3)Georgia Tech.
4)Georgia State Univ.(almost 30,000 students)
5)Agnes Scott College
6)Ogelthorpe Univ.
7)Savannah College of Art and Design
8)Clark Atlanta Univ.
there are more but that's off the top of my head of the ones that have a national and international appeal.
Charlotte has:
1)U.N.C.-Charlotte(great school but not ranked)
2)Johnson C. Wales Univ.(?)
There are a couple of others but very minor.
And how about cultural institutions?Compare
Atlanta has:
1)The Fernbank Museum(the largest Natural history museum South of D.C.)
2)The High Museum
3)Michael C. Carlos Antiquities Museum(also largest in the South)
4)Georgia Aquarium(largest in the world)
5)Martin Luther King Jr Historic National Center
Charlotte has :
1)NASCAR Hall of Fame(no comment needed)
I honestly don't know what else.I could do a search but WHY?If people never heard of any of the places ,then their not noteworthy enough to be mentioned.
Atlanta financial problems has NOTHING to do with the cities population.Nor does it reflect how great the city is or isn't.The city has been growing since the late 90's!!It's growing at a faster rate than Charlotte..by a long shot.We are not even talking about the suburbs.
Atlanta is also a regional powerhouse because of its influence.Think of it.Consider the following:
A)Atlanta has CNN,,Turner Broadcasting Company,Tyler Perry Studios,The Weather Channel,Cox Communications,The Travel Channel
B)The Center for Disease Control(the only government agency headquartered outside of D.C). Every time there is a public health emergency(i.e.. Swine Flu),you hear of Atlanta.When Do you hear of Charlotte?
C)Hartsfield-Jackson Airport(busiest airport in the world with The airport offering direct flights to 95 cities in 57 countries.)How many at Douglas for all those people in Charlotte?Oh I forgot, you have to drive to Atlanta for a direct flight to Seoul or Madrid.
D)The Federal Reserve Bank the Sixth District
Sure you can go to a nice restaurant in Charlotte,but what about a top rated national one?The same goes with hotels.Like the Ritz Carlton.The W ,Intercontinental,The Four Seasons or soon the Manderin Hotel.
How about a Broadway play?
Truth is that you can while in Atlanta do things in Atlanta that you cannot do in Charlotte.The quality of the few things that you can do in both differ in Quality.Atlanta is nothing even close to NYC,but at least most things you can do in NYC you can do and experience in Atlanta.Atlanta is a Beta World City like Miami,and Denver and Minneapolis.Charlotte is no where NEAR that scale. Charlotte will someday come close but unless Atlanta has a catastrophe worse than the city laying off 700 workers from an already bloated city government,there is NO WAY in Hell Charlotte could EVER compete with Atlanta.No matter how many big banks they have.
You forgot the Numbers 3 ritzs carltons 4 W hotels not W brand. Soon to open Lowes, Palamor, St Regis. Four Seasons etc . Charlotte would never be able to host a Major event because they dont have the Hotels Space.
This is what charlotte would have to do to catch up with Atlanta status and size and status
Atlanta attracts the thirteenth-highest number of foreign tourists of any city in the United States, with more than 478,000 foreign visitors arriving in the city in 2007.[62] That same year (according to Forbes), it was estimated that Atlanta attracted The Atlanta metro area is served by many local television stations and is the eighth largest designated market
area (
Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (IATA: ATL, ICAO: KATL), the world's busiest airport as measured by passenger traffic and by aircraft traffic,[132] provides air service between Atlanta and many national and international destinations.From world-class attractions and mouth-watering cuisine to gorgeous scenery and Southern charm, Atlanta has become one of the most popular places to live and visit in the Southeast. With no lack of amazing attractions, guests are quick to realize why over 37 million people visit the city each year for its city lights and Southern nights.
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WOW.Talk about "Delusion of Granduer"!
Let me explain it to you.When there are more people in closer areas,usually there are increased things to do in a "closer"areas.Such as:
.Nor does it reflect how great the city is or isn't.The city has been growing since the late 90's!!It's growing at a faster rate than Charlotte..by a long shot.We are not even talking about the suburbs.
.No matter how many big banks they have.
