Predictions: Georgia turns blue next election? (Forsyth: crimes, price, land)
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LOL - even Democratic strategists know that the Tea Party movement is something that is growing and is a significant factor for the upcoming elections. Trust me, they ARE taking them seriously. No, they are not a major political party, but when nearly 40% of Americans say they agree with issues that the Tea Party supports, there is a problem.
Interesting perspective. Polling shows support for the Tea Party is declining -- it's down from 41% to 36% in the most recent polls, with 50% disapproval.
Recent polling from Fox News puts Tea Party identification at 17% "yes" and 77% "no." And while the movement might be fading, the same poll illustrates the damage done to the GOP by the Tea Party: When a Tea Party candidate is added to the generic ballot, the GOP candidate goes from a +4% winner to a -12% loser.
I think you're likely right that Democratic strategists are taking the Tea Party seriously. But I suspect the GOP strategists are the only ones who are worried about them.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suprascooby22
Sorry but Obama supporters and intelligent just don't mix.
There are intelligent folks on both sides. Just because I strongly disagree with the priority sets of some doesn't mean I'm gonna diss their basic nature.
Both parties have their own extremists. I don't like any of them, and I think the inability to even discuss basic issues is the core problem that this country faces these days. People would rather toss insults; it requires less thought. Makes good soundbytes, but doesn't do **** for the country at large.
I think you're likely right that Democratic strategists are taking the Tea Party seriously. But I suspect the GOP strategists are the only ones who are worried about them.
GOP strategists are worried about the tea party voters when it comes to primaries. But when the actual election gets here, anyone associated with Obama's (failed/failing) policies is going to have quite a struggle on their hand against a candiidate who appeals to both republican & tea party voters.
GOP strategists are worried about the tea party voters when it comes to primaries. But when the actual election gets here, anyone associated with Obama's (failed/failing) policies is going to have quite a struggle on their hand against a candiidate who appeals to both republican & tea party voters.
Thanks for the response. I'm not a GOP strategist, but I don't think the primaries are their chief concern. Certainly, they're concerned that Tea Party candidates will win primaries -- but only because some of those candidates are likely to lose general elections that a more establishment Republican could have otherwise won in this cycle.
They're not concerned for nothing: We got a taste in November, the "first test of Tea Party power," when Democrat Bill Owens defeated the Tea Party backed Doug Hoffman in heavily Republican NY-23.
The most interesting case continues to be the Florida Senate race, where Crist now leads the Tea Party darling Rubio by five points in the three-way contest. And that's with Meeks pulling more than 14%. Rubio's problem is precisely that while the conservative base loves him, his favorable/unfavorable with independents is about 30/30 -- he'll need to pull 50% of the moderates to win.
People are forgetting that there are still political moderates in this country and they are still the deciding factor of general elections, and while the GOP base is electing Tea Party purists in the primaries, these candidates are less electable in the general elections. Obviously gains will be made by the GOP in November, but I don't think it's going to be the tsunami that a lot of people are thinking it will be.
I couldn't agree more. The middle class in this country as we know it exists ONLY because we human beings of conscience decided that it more efficient and humane to pool our resources to create a system mutually beneficial to all.
If the United States was to revert to a REAL freemarket-styled republic, this country would probably look similar to Haiti or Somalia, and we all have seen what happens when Government is totally of the equation in those places. That's probably why even a Socialistic country like Austria which birthed these free market economic theories had the good sense to leave them at just that: theories.
Another point: This Tea-party movement to me is just a 21st century revamped version of George Wallace's American Independent Party movement. It's pretty much a joke and the "populism" this movement supposedly represents is about as genuine as a Gucci bag bought in a bazaar in downtown Baghdad, Iraq.
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Originally Posted by netdragon
Umm, with the recent housing crash, this is not the time to talk in support of "free market" after what those ideas have done to our economy. Keep in mind that when people say "free market" they are not talking about supporting business, but instead a new term for "laissez faire government" in support of outsourcing and no regulation, mainly to help the rich exploit the rest of the nation and the world. This has done the most harm to the United States, and fortunately was balanced by many solid years of public programs such as FDR's new deal and core institutions which have sadly eroded over the last 50 years, mainly because of the free market, putting the United States in a bad place.
In fact, the strongest periods of free market dominance have led to the largest declines. Look at how the dominance of "free market" economy and conservative values post-50s has caused a decline of the nation. Look at how self-regulation caused the great depression. Greed destroys.
It makes sense to be against too much government but definitely foolish to be anti-regulation. Public institutions may be slow and bureaucratic (so can large corporations), however at least at their core is a general concern for the welfare of the people of this great country, not the shareholders of a corporation at all costs. We should keep them out of our personal lives, but they sure as heck should be watching over greedy corporations. Otherwise, a few people who really know their stuff can rob the nation of billions.
Maybe the onset of B-corporations will create more of the kind of thing we see when a couple corporations decided to donate money for projects like the beltline, which is rare sight in the world today.
Last edited by AcidSnake; 06-26-2010 at 08:09 AM..
It's hard to support a movement spurred in part by a Chicago Mercantile Exchange trade & order filler & part-time media mouthpiece for Corporate America. When I see TRUE populism from the Tea Party, then maybe I could be sold on the concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon
The tea party is a small grassroots group that is completely wrong on most things and have little credibility. Most people don't take them very seriously. Fox supports them. Even though Fox isn't running the tea party, the fact Fox supports their views should turn most people off.
I couldn't agree more. The middle class in this country as we know it exists ONLY because we human beings of conscience decided that it more efficient and humane to pool our resources to create a system mutually beneficial to all.
If the United States was to revert to a REAL freemarket-styled republic, this country would probably look similar to Haiti or Somalia, and we all have seen what happens when Government is totally of the equation in those places. That's probably why even a Socialistic country like Austria which birthed these free market economic theories had the good sense to leave them at just that: theories.
Another point: This Tea-party movement to me is just a 21st century revamped version of George Wallace's American Independent Party movement. It's pretty much a joke and the "populism" this movement supposedly represents is about as genuine as a Gucci bag bought in a bazaar in downtown Baghdad, Iraq.
Every new movement has fits and starts. The Tea Party is no different. It is still very much in its incipent stages.
IF the economy turns around, the budget comes under control and employment ratchets up, the Tea Party could lose some momentum. But if things dont turn around, and the Dems keep attempting to manipulate things with absurd "stimulus" packages, ridiculous tax credits and other social reenginerring programs, the Tea Party will surge to new levels of popularity.
I suspect that those who dismiss the Tea Party so readily have had no real exposure to it. I can tell you among white, educated, professional types, there is huge enthusiasm for the Tea Paty and its principles.
The fundamental problem with Haiti and Somolia is not lack of govt. The exact opposite is true -- too much govt, and what there is is totally corrupt and incompetent. There is also a total lack of adherence to a system of rule of law. There is no legal structure under which capitalism can function, investment capital raised and investors protected from corrupt govt practices.
The US was founded under the principles of rule of law. The laws are there to protect individuals from unfair govt practices and seizure of property. The US has been so successful because it took the best elements of European civilization, codified them into law under which individuals were free to take risk, create and experience, potentially, unlimited propspeirty. It has worked amazing well, as the incredible wealth of the US shows.
The dominant US culture will prohbiit it from ever turning into a Somalia or Haiti. What is worrisome, to some degree, though, is attempts by some to bring "progressive" policies more to the forefront. This threatens the very structure which has created the wealthiest and mightiest nation to have ever existed. This is what the Tea Party is fighting against, at its core. The Tea Party and its principles will either prevail, or its possible the US may cease to exist in its current form.
The fundamental problem with Haiti and Somolia is not lack of govt. The exact opposite is true -- too much govt, and what there is is totally corrupt and incompetent. There is also a total lack of adherence to a system of rule of law. There is no legal structure under which capitalism can function, investment capital raised and investors protected from corrupt govt practices.
You are totally wrong on that count. There was never any sort of socialistic/communistic government in either of those countries to begin with.
Haiti is practically a feudalistic society operated by a tiny corporate elite, & is often used/abuse by multinational free-market oriented agencies for experiments in how a free market society should work (obviously a FAIL).
Somalia is a feudalistic society operated by warlords. Both are examples of why limited totally free market oriented governments will never prove practical for a successful society. I can't help but notice that NONE of the European countries & their related cousins are even considering the notion of adhering to a purely free market style of governance.
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Originally Posted by Bullbear
The dominant US culture will prohbiit it from ever turning into a Somalia or Haiti. What is worrisome, to some degree, though, is attempts by some to bring "progressive" policies more to the forefront. This threatens the very structure which has created the wealthiest and mightiest nation to have ever existed. This is what the Tea Party is fighting against, at its core. The Tea Party and its principles will either prevail, or its possible the US may cease to exist in its current form.
No, what's threatening this country is this government's willingness to kowtow to corporate interests who wish to deregulated everything and turn the Unites States of America and all of its splendor into a giant paved, polluted feudalistic craphole. You can wax all the noble praise you want about the Tea Party but they come off to me as nothing more than a bunch of old, isolated reactionary guns & God types who are angry that the "other guy" is taking what they feel is rightfully theirs.
The recurring theme with this movement always seem to be "we must take our country back!!!" I wonder where we've seen that show before, eh?
If there was anything noble about these groups they would & should be angry about these unrighteous wars that are bleeding America's treasury & destroying lives, NAFTA & the FTAs that are sucking away America's industrial base, and the lack of regulation by our Government of the Corporations that lead to situations like the Deepwater Horizon oil spill.
But these Tea-partiers are not mad at THAT stuff. No, they are angry about the possibility of having to pay for healthcare going to the "other guy" & Mexicans. This movie has been played before, and the reviews were awful.
You are totally wrong on that count. There was never any sort of socialistic/communistic government in either of those countries to begin with.
I am totally correct about Haiti and Somolia. The govts of Haiti/Somalia are pathetic, yes, but they are entirely responsible. It is their govt's gross corruption, mismanagement of natural resources, abuse of power, "crony-capitalism", outright fraud and criminality that has and will ensure these countries never rise beyond the "crapholes" that they are.
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