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Old 12-14-2008, 08:31 AM
 
1,652 posts, read 1,847,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia View Post
Sorry, but nothing of the sort. Frankly opinon, the ruling was absurd.
Now if you notice two words I used, TORT REFORM.
Until TORT REFORM happens it will always cost a mountain of dollars in appeals, but when the ABA controls most of the political capital, on both yes both, sides of the isle crime will continue to be the winner and the innocents the losers.

Now, stop trying to make this a conservative / liberal thing. They are both guilty on this deal.
Dude, tort reform has nothing to do with the criminal process. Tort reform refers to the civil process... which does need reform. However, you are never going to convince anyone (well, most legal folks) that a person sentenced to DIE should not have as many legal appeals available as possible... especially considering how many folks have been freed from death row due to DNA evidence. Hey, the jury ruled and you disagree... either way, he's being punished. You are not supposed to agree with everything that happens in a democracy.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:36 AM
 
1,652 posts, read 1,847,139 times
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Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I didn't read where anyone assumed anything about his educational achievement, and even if they did, who cares? Many prisoners use taxpayer funds in prison to get an education. I guess that's their version of the Hope Scholarship. Whether he was a college professor or he worked at McDonalds doesn't matter one iota.

He's a remorseless, cold blooded cop killer, and he should be facing a death sentence. The fact that anyone could feel sympathy for him or think he deserves any kind of mercy is just beyond me. I know that there are principled stances against the death penalty, but when the situation is this clear cut, I find those arguments hollow.
Who has expressed sympathy for him or mercy? This is the problem with discourse in this country... folks just make up arguments to argue against. Many people, including me, believe that life in prison without parole is a WORSE punishment than death. Now, you can argue against that but it's false to say that people are showing sympathy or mercy for holding such a view.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Woodstock, GA
1,105 posts, read 1,606,571 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
- He'd never kill anyone ever again. Not in public or in prison. He's a menace to society. Even the Judge admonished prison guards to keep their eyes open, even when Nichols is "80 years old".
In prison he is removed from society so he should no longer be a menace to it. If the concern is that he will kill again in prison, or escape again, then our justice system would be killing a man because it is unable to keep its prisons and prisoners secure. That doesn't sound like justice. That sounds like putting a man to death to make some bureaucrat's job easier.

Quote:
- Retribution and justice. His crime was heinous and deserves the ultimate penalty.
It is justice to commit his own crime against him? Sounds more like revenge, or as you put it "retribution". We can debate this point but for me that is not a sufficient reason to take another man's life, no matter what he has done.

Quote:
- One less person in our prison system
So we kill him to save us some money? To help alleviate the problem of prison overcrowding?

Quote:
- To a lesser degree, and I know opinions are mixed, but to signal that crimes of this magnitude will be dealt with harshly and quickly. The "deterrent" effect.
Another point for debate. I would very much like to believe that the death penalty is a deterrent for committing crimes of this magnitude. Unfortunately I have read more than one study which indicates otherwise. I seriously doubt that as Nichols was shooting all those people he was thinking "hmm, I could get the death penalty for this, maybe I better not do this."

Last edited by billl; 12-14-2008 at 08:39 AM.. Reason: Added final comment
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Zel Ya View Post
I don't think that's necessarily true. Have you looked at the prisoner/inmate personals? I couldn't hazard a guess as to the number of prisoner/inmate Web sites but there's quite a few. Pershaps 50 or so? I really don't know?

One inmate Web site focuses on the "hottest" inmates. Another Web site, no longer around, was quite sexual and graphic in nature.

I find it appalling that prisoners, apparently in most states, can post personal ads on the Internet. Why should death row prisoners, or any prisoner for that matter, have a correspondence love life? Sure, the prisoners all say they're lonely. As far as I know, loneliness and a jail cell are a packaged deal. Isn't that the way it's supposed to be? I guess our legal system has a different view and philosophy.

Taxpayers supply prisoners with great bodybuilding machines and weights, food, books, and even a pathway to a college education.

A lot of prisoners pump iron all day. They eat, sleep and pump iron. And then they exercise another body part.

It's my understanding that many conjugal visits have/had allowed sexual intercourse. A lot of prisoners are no doubt getting more "action" than law-abiding citizens.

One of the Melendez brothers, sentenced to life in prison, married a woman. He and his brother killed their wealthy parents in their Beverly Hills mansion quite a few years ago.

Our entire country is falling apart--including our legal system.
So do you really think that everyone in prison is a Brian Nichols? Would it surprise you to know that most criminals in prison are non-violent drug offenders? Now, these folks are going come out of prison at some point. Would we rather they come out more deranged and angry or should the system at least TRY to fulfill one of their main objectives, which is rehabilitation? I don't know which idiot radio talk show host or sensationalist tv show you are listening/watching, but the vast, vast, vast majority of inmates will never have a conjugal visit so let's not take the aberration and make a general statement.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:45 AM
 
1,652 posts, read 1,847,139 times
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Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Well, I agree with you as far as the fiscal argument goes. It's another discussion and argument about why we waste so much time and money going through 10, 15, even 20 years of appeals and motions. I'm not advocating stringing him up at the nearest tree, but this is an open and shut case. Is there anyone who doesn't believe he's guilty...that he was framed or that we have the wrong guy?

So why should it take 10, 15, or 20 years to carry out a death sentence? Why isn't it possible to go through the appeals process in 2 - 5 years and carry out the sentence? What legal issues in this case or in many cases justify the incredible waste of time and taxpayer money? Much of the process now has become appeals for appeals sake, due to folks like the ACLU just wanting to drag the process out as long as possible, in order for folks like you to make the argument you're making.
Neil, you make a good point. And I think there are plenty of orgs out there that are anti-death penalty and they use all avenues available to delay the process. There have been efforts to close these avenues but every time these efforts gains some steam, another innocent person is released from death row. That is why I don't think the death penalty should persist. I am for it philosophically; Brian Nichols should die. The problem is that we don't know how to administer it mistake-free and without prejudice. And for an irreversible punishment, in 2009, we need to be certain or we need to abandon it. And if we are going to keep it on the books, then we need to give these people maximum flexibility at appeal -- that does two important things: 1) it allows for different people in the legal system to view the evidence so that it reduces the chances of mistakes or prejudice and 2) it gives pause to the prosecutor who is choosing whether to go for death or life. If the prosecutor knows that there are going to be plenty of eyes looking at the case, s/he will only ask for death in the most extreme cases and will make sure the case is solid. Just my opinion on the matter.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:46 AM
 
64 posts, read 108,913 times
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There are many people who oppose the death penalty due to obvious fact that this penalty is racially biased. When the victim is white, the death penalty will more than likely be on the table. When the defendant is Black and the victim is white the death penalty will more than likely be on the table. When the defendant is Black and the victim is Black, noone cares, a speedy, cost-effective trial that results in a life sentence is just fine. Gary Michael Hilton who is a confessed serial killer, murders a GA hiker and gets a life sentence? These types of things stick into the minds of many potential jurors and until their is an equitable distribution of sentencing than these types of verdicts will continue to happen.

As far as the liberal vs conservative argument goes, it's absolute hypocrisy for someone to oppose the murder of a fetus but support murder as a form of capital punishment.

Make it a great day!
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:46 AM
 
1,652 posts, read 1,847,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Summers View Post
Didn't Neal Boortz say something about Nichols having some Freemason ties? I don't really believe it but my uncle is convinced that's what prevented the death penalty (he's into conspiracy theories). My uncle's talking all this stuff about the Nichols' parents using their connects to spare their son, crazy right? I'm actually suprised that he's not deceased by now.
Now we're in loony-land.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:49 AM
 
1,652 posts, read 1,847,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Wow....that's a softball question. Simple:

- He'd never kill anyone ever again. Not in public or in prison. He's a menace to society. Even the Judge admonished prison guards to keep their eyes open, even when Nichols is "80 years old".

- Retribution and justice. His crime was heinous and deserves the ultimate penalty.

- One less person in our prison system

- To a lesser degree, and I know opinions are mixed, but to signal that crimes of this magnitude will be dealt with harshly and quickly. The "deterrent" effect.
We all know that the states with the highest execution rates also have some of the highest criminal rates... it is not a deterrent. The only rationale is that the person won't kill... life in jail is retribution and justice as well.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:51 AM
 
1,652 posts, read 1,847,139 times
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Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
You weren't wrong- he just won't admit that you were correct......
I didn't see anything racial... there were a couple of posts indicating that prison was no good because the person could get an education and the response was that Nichols had one... like I said, this board is obsessed with race and political ideology... GA is something else.
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Old 12-14-2008, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,652 posts, read 9,273,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dejuan2 View Post
As far as the liberal vs conservative argument goes, it's absolute hypocrisy for someone to oppose the murder of a fetus but support murder as a form of capital punishment.
I won't dove into the race pit with you, but I don't agree that a black DA in Fulton County is going to be racist in the application of the death penalty.

I want to draw a distinction again between conservatives/libertarians and religious conservatives. I don't know whether I would make the leap to hypocrisy, but I agree that there is a slight break in logic in what you describe. I for one have no issue with a woman's right to choose abortion, and I have no problem with extinguishing the life from cold blooded killers who have no remorse or hope for rehabilitation.
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