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Old 12-14-2008, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,039 posts, read 2,642,233 times
Reputation: 927

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Have you ever been inside a prison? I have and they're nothing like what you describe, unless they're vastly different here than they are in Alabama. As a lifer with no chance for parole Nichols won't be eligible for college education, which is extremely limited, and only for inmates serving non-violent sentences. In addition, given that 80% of inmates are illiterate, education does help cut the recidivism rate.

Most inmates are fortunate if they ever see a doctor, despite countless rulings from the SCOTUS inmate health care is practically nonexistent. (Except in federal prisons.)

A death penalty sentence is far more expensive than life without parole, as the appeal process is automatic and typically lasts for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgia View Post
Come on people:

Now with life in prison Lil Brian can go to school, get a college education, have new clothes, Nike sneakers, a nice gym, full medical care without a deductable, an annual parole appear with a taxpayer funded defense attorney, futher appeal for a re-trail, etc., etc., etc., and all this will cost us is 75,000 to 100,000 per year for the next, oh let's see, he is rather young so with the typical life expectancy we will say 50 years to be conservative. What's 5,000,000.00 amongst friends. Lil Brian may even be "rehibilitated" and with this become even eligible for early parole.
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Old 12-14-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,714 posts, read 9,935,640 times
Reputation: 3243
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
A death penalty sentence is far more expensive than life without parole, as the appeal process is automatic and typically lasts for years.
That's the current state of affairs, but only because the it's been made that way and stumbling blocks to executions have been put in place to deliberately slow down the process. It never was that way in years past. Your assumption is that we cannot have a death penalty without endless and in many cases baseless appeals that take many years. I do not agree with that assumption.

In the case of Nichols, what would the grounds for appeal be, other than a legal technicality? Does anyone, including Nichols himself, believe that he's not guilty? The problem is the system, not the application of the penalty.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:06 AM
 
Location: East Side of ATL
2,727 posts, read 3,076,283 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Gary Michael Hilton who is a confessed serial killer, murders a GA hiker and gets a life sentence? These types of things stick into the minds of many potential jurors and until their is an equitable distribution of sentencing than these types of verdicts will continue to happen
That was a plea deal to find the body. The feds and Florida plan to seek the death penalty but he had the upper hand in the GA case.


Aww well, if he gets sent to SupaMax in Colorado, he may actually go crazy....

I think its a waste because he still is a heartless bastard. I think if he had gotten the dp, just maybe, he would give a damn. The whole trial, he was just stone, just like he was the day of the murders.

Oh and the defense using his daughter who hasn't seen in 10 years nor has he helped, parading her to the trial to gain sympathy for him.

Last edited by PKCorey; 12-14-2008 at 11:17 AM..
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,039 posts, read 2,642,233 times
Reputation: 927
Here's the thing Neil, there have been nearly 200 inmates released from prison due to exculpatory DNA evidence in the past ten years. And that's only the ones who've worked through the Innocence Project. The state of IL had to suspend the death penalty because so many inmates had to be released. I think there's a similar situation in Harris county TX, where a scientist was found to literally be making up "evidence."

The death penalty as currently implemented in this country is both racially and economically biased. The two greatest indicators as to whether you'll receive the death penalty are; Race of victim, and whether you live in a rural area. Given those type biases there is no way to implement capital punishment fairly in this country. If there was some way to control for the impact of the victim's race, I might would be in favor of it, but that's unlikely to occur anytime soon.

I have no doubt as to Nichol's guilt and apparently the jury had no quarrel with that either. However, a jury did decide not to implement the death penalty. Do we really want to start discarding jury decisions when we don't agree with them? After all, they heard all the evidence and testimony, all we saw was what was filtered through the mainstream media.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
That's the current state of affairs, but only because the it's been made that way and stumbling blocks to executions have been put in place to deliberately slow down the process. It never was that way in years past. Your assumption is that we cannot have a death penalty without endless and in many cases baseless appeals that take many years. I do not agree with that assumption.

In the case of Nichols, what would the grounds for appeal be, other than a legal technicality? Does anyone, including Nichols himself, believe that he's not guilty? The problem is the system, not the application of the penalty.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,039 posts, read 2,642,233 times
Reputation: 927
And most inmates do not spend their time watching tv and pumping iron. Most inmates in maximum security are on lock-down 24 hours a day. Violent escape risks like Nichols will probably never leave his cell. He may well be placed in administrative segregation, also known as solitary confinement.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,714 posts, read 9,935,640 times
Reputation: 3243
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Here's the thing Neil, there have been nearly 200 inmates released from prison due to exculpatory DNA evidence in the past ten years.
That's the basis of my point. We have a "one size fits all" system and treat all cases the same. There is a HUGE difference between someone who is tried and convicted on circumstantial evidence or where there isn't certainty, and a case like the Nichols case.

DNA is now a standard part of the prosecution's evidentiary toolkit. Many times the accused is confirmed as the perpetrator prior to trial and that evidence is submitted at trial. Most of those freed prisoners you mention were tried and sentenced years ago, before DNA and other scientific methods existed.

The biggest issue for me is the fact that we in GA leave this decision up to people who are unqualified to make this determination. The Constitution prescribes that we are judged by a jury of our peers, and for the most part, that system works. There are some travesties like the OJ murder trial, where jurors just plain ignored fact and law in favor of something else, but in general the system works. What we should not be doing though is allowing a handful of these same people to exercise veto power over sentencing, especially due to their political leanings. An accountable judge, trained in the law, should be where the sentence is derived.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:46 AM
 
2,758 posts, read 3,412,593 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsmoove View Post
Now we're in loony-land.
Not my thoughts at all I'm actually trying to convince my uncle (a conspiracy theorist) that's not the case. I just threw it out there to see what's up.
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:59 AM
 
1,120 posts, read 1,544,460 times
Reputation: 324
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsmoove View Post
So do you really think that everyone in prison is a Brian Nichols? Would it surprise you to know that most criminals in prison are non-violent drug offenders? Now, these folks are going come out of prison at some point. Would we rather they come out more deranged and angry or should the system at least TRY to fulfill one of their main objectives, which is rehabilitation? I don't know which idiot radio talk show host or sensationalist tv show you are listening/watching, but the vast, vast, vast majority of inmates will never have a conjugal visit so let's not take the aberration and make a general statement.


My post was in reference to a LIFE SENTENCE being viewed as the worst criminal punishment. That was the subject matter. I was talking about one specific subject and you're interjecting a completely different subject into the equation.

The subject is a life sentence. The point of my post was just to say that a prisoner, with a life sentence, does indeed have one nice perk these days. Access to the Internet is indeed a nice perk for a prisoner with a life sentence. Look at the ads.

You mentioned "THE SYSTEM."

From what I read, most prisons and correctional facilities ( the system ) are hell. Rapes occur on an ongoing basis and prison guards apparently look the other way. How do rapes/sexual assaults fit into the rehabilitation process? Do frequent rapes and sexual assaults foster anger? I think so.

Regardless, why does the government ( the system ) apparently sanction or condone pictorial ads with more than a few shirtless men, sometimes accompanied with a fair amount of sexual content, on these prison/inmate Web sites? How do these types of ads fit into the rehabilitation process?

I just question whether a lot of rehabilitation is taking place in prison. Yes, it's a worthy objective but the government ( the system ) appears to be setting up obstacles in the rehabilitation process.
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Old 12-14-2008, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,039 posts, read 2,642,233 times
Reputation: 927
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
DNA is now a standard part of the prosecution's evidentiary toolkit. Many times the accused is confirmed as the perpetrator prior to trial and that evidence is submitted at trial. Most of those freed prisoners you mention were tried and sentenced years ago, before DNA and other scientific methods existed.
Hmmm, yes and no. For most of your urban, fairly wealthy counties, this is true. Unfortunately, most counties cannot afford the expense or the personnel for very expensive DNA testing. Take for instance, rape kits. Processing a rape kit is both time-consuming and can cost thousands of dollars. (Probably why Governor Palin imposed that cost on the victim when she was the mayor in a small Alaska town.) Right not, we have many counties where the backlog on rape kits numbers well into the thousands. Given all the criminal procedural tv shows people have very high expectations these days. In reality though, for many counties, it's more Mayberry than CSI.

In many counties coroners are elected, and there's no legal requirement that he even be trained in medicine. So, evidentiary collection procedure range from exceptional to downright criminal. We've seen this in the Jon-Benet Ramsey case. In all likelihood, if the Ramseys had not been wealthy, one or both of them would be serving lengthy prison sentences right now.

Quote:
What we should not be doing though is allowing a handful of these same people to exercise veto power over sentencing, especially due to their political leanings. An accountable judge, trained in the law, should be where the sentence is derived.
Are you assuming that judges don't have political leanings? Given that in most counties judges are elected they're very likely to have political leanings. Presumably the law was written as it was to ameliorate judiciary bias.
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Old 12-14-2008, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Metropolis, USA
1,104 posts, read 487,299 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I would be happy to volunteer to pull the trigger, kick out the chair, push the button, push the needle, or whatever other act is necessary to send him off for a dirt nap. I wouldn't lose a single second of sleep or think twice.

Naw I don't think you have the juice.
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