Revival of old thread on Atlanta and ghetto suburbs, anyone? (Thomasville: apartment complexes, house)

[Mattie]

I found the New Republic article interesting, but it didn't pertain to me, or what I want for my family. I'm all for a lively downtown area full of families, and singles. If it happens, I'm sure my family would feel more comfortable spending time in the city. But, until the schools drastically improve, I don't see city living as the best choice for families. And, I do like having a large piece of property for kids and dogs. To each his own, right? I personally don't think the northern suburbs are in any danger of losing favor among families.

[mezzogirl]

Originally Posted by Mattie

I found the New Republic article interesting, but it didn't pertain to me, or what I want for my family. I'm all for a lively downtown area full of families, and singles. If it happens, I'm sure my family would feel more comfortable spending time in the city. But, until the schools drastically improve, I don't see city living as the best choice for families. And, I do like having a large piece of property for kids and dogs. To each his own, right? I personally don't think the northern suburbs are in any danger of losing favor among families.

I totally agree. Nothing to worry about!

[WilliamM]

Originally Posted by Mattie

To each his own, right? I personally don't think the northern suburbs are in any danger of losing favor among families.

I'm sure you're right, Mattie. Thought the article might not have been entirely clear about it, I think one thing it was suggesting is that the trends that gave us suburbanization have not been entirely reversed but have just stopped being a 'one-way street'. And that's largely due to demographics -- people marrying later, having fewer kids, etc.

But I agree with you. All you have to do is drive through East Cobb to realize, it's not going anywhere.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by WilliamM

I'm sure you're right, Mattie. Thought the article might not have been entirely clear about it, I think one thing it was suggesting is that the trends that gave us suburbanization have not been entirely reversed but have just stopped being a 'one-way street'. And that's largely due to demographics -- people marrying later, having fewer kids, etc.

But I agree with you. All you have to do is drive through East Cobb to realize, it's not going anywhere.

You are so right. And the funny (and maybe true) thing is that many consider East Cobb "close-in", convenient, "a great location", etc.

[WilliamM]

Originally Posted by aries4118

You are so right. And the funny (and maybe true) thing is that many consider East Cobb "close-in", convenient, "a great location", etc.

Yup, in other words -- and this is very controversial -- they're conceding (w/o realizing it) that the draw is the proximity to, yet separation from the city of Atlanta. THAT is a cognitive dissonance that is not going to keep on going the way it has (e.g., by speaking of Atlanta as a place that's kept at bay by putting piranhas in the river ).

Maybe what we're going to see, lacking a consolidation of jurisdictions (not likely), is a replication of the situation in Southern California where you have an increasingly urbanized former suburb in Orange County (which here could happen in both the 2 large Norther counties) growing up alongside the core urban area.

By the way, to consider things from another angle, here's another take in today's local paper by Jay Bookman, which, if true, might put things in a yet different light:

Housing has been to metro Atlanta what automaking has been to Detroit, the prime industry driving the regional economy. And like Detroit, the product we’ve been putting out for the past two or three decades may no longer be responsive to market demand. A 5,000-square-foot home on a two-acre lot has become the lumber-and-stucco version of an SUV, popular with some but a niche product. (http://tinyurl.com/6olqwz)

What this all might boil down to is that suburban life is ceasing to be mainstream and may eventually become a 'niche' lifestyle.

[greg_atlanta]

It's just a big circle:

intown > inner city suburbs > outer city suburbs > exburbs > intown > inner city suburbs > outer city suburbs > exburbs > intown > inner city suburbs > outer city suburbs > exburbs > intown > inner city suburbs > outer city suburbs > exburbs > intown > inner city suburbs > outer city suburbs > exburbs > intown > inner city suburbs > outer city suburbs > exburbs.... etc.

It will repeat itself over time. There will always be those who are living the dream, and those who are chasing the dreamers.

The grass is always greener........

[WilliamM]

Originally Posted by greg_atlanta

It's just a big circle ... There will always be those who are living the dream, and those who are chasing the dreamers.

Indeed. And those who are living the dream will always need people who are not yet living it to cut their grass, serve them food in restaurants,
keep their bathrooms from backing up, give them manicures, change their babies' diapers, ... , well you get the idea.

Thus the two groups will always be chasing each other around the maypole (both chasing after and running away from).

[vsmoove]

Originally Posted by Windu

The race issue is a red herring.

Those moving back into central cities, especially in cities as diverse as Atlanta, will be a mixture of ethnicities and the type of people that aren't into self-segregation along racial lines (which would seem obvious, but is worth stating because it's important to state the facts about the reality of non-racial thinking among younger Americans). Those seeing it as a white takeover just have race on the brain.

It plays out as race because race in the US is often a proxy for low socio-economic class in urban societies. The poor (often Black) are being pushed out and they are losing their social network -- and they resent that. The theory that putting poor folks in the suburbs will magically transform their lives without providing them any sort of life training is flawed. I posted an article about a case study on Memphis... a police investigator tracked the growth of crime in Memphis' suburbs to the displacement of the urban populations in those centers. It was an interesting discussion but folks on this board are obsessed with making racial arguments so it descended into anarchy.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by vsmoove

It plays out as race because race in the US is often a proxy for low socio-economic class in urban societies. The poor (often Black) are being pushed out and they are losing their social network -- and they resent that. The theory that putting poor folks in the suburbs will magically transform their lives without providing them any sort of life training is flawed. I posted an article about a case study on Memphis... a police investigator tracked the growth of crime in Memphis' suburbs to the displacement of the urban populations in those centers. It was an interesting discussion but folks on this board are obsessed with making racial arguments so it descended into anarchy.

The highlighted above is very true...it is very scary actually. Poor are being placed in areas without the usual/needed urban support systems/amenities. It's a worse situation...

[blondandfun]

The housing projects were a failed social program, and a lot of them are in the downtown area. Just east of downtown, they have done a great job transforming the old auburn neighborhood, but they need to work north where I still notice a lot of housing projects east of the city. This area is probably the main reason why the population of midtown is weary of walking around south of Ponce de leon.

The majority of these redevelopments are actually being done by African American developers, and a lot of these will end up as majority-black, so there won't be much change in demographics.

Therefore the article doesn't pertain to Atlanta as much as it does to Chicago.

With the mexican/latino community, there are pockets of them in certain areas, but in Atlant most of the redevelopments are only 3 or 4 stories... not huge expensive like they are in Chicago. Therefore, affordable units will be available, as required by zoning.