A Theory About Atlanta (Savannah, Auburn: condos, how much, houses)

[blondandfun]

Originally Posted by johnatl

Why do you think Buckhead & Midtown have all the hotels, dining and shopping that they do, and adding more?

My answer would be that both the planners of Atlanta and the developers of Atlanta don't care about bringing in residents to downtown.

Considering that downtown is the most connected portion of the city, I find this very strange.

Yeah, I do have a chip on my shoulder about this. I think it's just flat stupid to be frank.

[CMMom]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

I think you could almost call Atlanta an abandoned city, like Detroit, as far as downtown is concerned. Just to see the looks on all the tourists faces today during my walk downtown was quite embarrassing to me, to be an Atlantan. I think that it is pretty ignorant for people to brush that off as if that's how it is and we accept it.

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't downtown LA nicer than downtown ATL?
Also, remember that downtown LA is also accessible more easily with a grid system. Atlanta is only accessible by North/South Streets, Except North AVe and Atlanta Rd.

Have you ever been in the City of London at nighttime? I'm not talking about the City of Westminster surrounding London, but London proper. The business district itself. It is a ghost town, and people are advised not to walk around due to crime issues. I wouldn't call London a "failed city," would you?

[johnatl]

Then you would be wrong about downtown Atlanta, blondandfun. All of the major sports facilities are downtown here, unlike several large cities. There are more residents in downtown Atlanta than there are in downtown L.A. It is the heart of the 5th largest convention industry in the U.S. It is also the site of the largest wholesale market in the U.S. More hotel rooms than many cities much larger.

Over the years a lot of businesses have migrated to Midtown & Buckhead, which have became the new Legal and Financial districts, respectively - and the department stores followed them. There are only a small handful of Amercian cities where downtown never declined are are still as bustling as they used to be. L.A. is not one of them, nor is Atlanta. Both are very decentralized cities, and both are undergoing rapid redevelopment. Downtown Atlanta is on it's way back, big time. It has a ways to go obviously. You can not leave Midtown and Buckhead out of the equation here. Most cities our size do not have three distinct and powerful centers within the city, and it makes for a very unique set up.

[WilliamM]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

My answer would be that both the planners of Atlanta and the developers of Atlanta don't care about bringing in residents to downtown.

Strange. I don't have any handy numbers to throw out but if you were to examine the increase in residents to downtown from say 15 years ago, you would be hard pressed to argue that there hasn't been drastic change.

If you followed downtown redevelopment efforts, you'd also know that that hasn't been a coincidence, with developments such as Fairlie-Poplar and of course Georgia State playing an important role in this turnaround. So to argue that the city simply doesn't care about downtown is patently false.

But of course, as I said above, the REAL interesting development here is what is happening on a socio-economic level in the region as a whole. Around 1990 the average income of residents of the city as a whole had dropped to considerably less than that of the surrounding suburbs, but by about 2006 it had reversed and the city residents made on average 30% more than people in the surrounding areas. As a recent piece in The New Republic pointed out, THIS is the real interesting development that's underway and it's happening all over the country (but no where with more breathtaking results than here in Atlanta). So don't worry. Eventually you're precious downtown is likely going to get denser and going to go more upscale. The real issue, though, is that unless you're pulling in a couple of hundred thou a year you might not be able to live down that way. See what I mean?

But leaving that aside, I just don't get why you're making such a fuss about downtown per se. Downtown is merely one part of a larger set of factors. It would be like making a huge deal about Lower Manhatten not getting ALL the attention by New York planners, developers and residents, just because of some sentimental notion that a city should have a nice organic "core" before which everything else must bow. Even New York City, that most classical of all urban specimens, doesn't follow such a neat pattern.

[meadgrad]

Originally Posted by WilliamM

But leaving that aside, I just don't get why you're making such a fuss about downtown per se. Downtown is merely one part of a larger set of factors. It would be like making a huge deal about Lower Manhatten not getting ALL the attention by New York planners, developers and residents, just because of some sentimental notion that a city should have a nice organic "core" before which everything else must bow. Even New York City, that most classical of all urban specimens, doesn't follow such a neat pattern.

you stole my thunder...I was going to give the New York lower Manhatten example!

[blondandfun]

Don't you find it physically/culturally problematic to have the center of your city the least desirable as far as things which are commonly desired such as: congregations of people, shopping, cultural similarities, people watching, establishing human contact/relations?

Forget about statistics of tourism and conventions, I'm talking about what people who live here do. Your citation of Lower Manhattan is cute, but downtown Atlanta is the center of the area.

Downtown Atlanta used to have a culture, but that culture was traded for a couple banks and office towers. The decentralization of Atlanta is also another reason why nightclubs have a very low survival rate.

I give up on you all lol, nothing personal and thx for the discussion.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

My opinion is that Atlanta is a failed city because the part of Atlanta with the greatest potential, downtown, is abandoned during non-business hours, excluding bums and teenage hooligans.

I think getting rid of the bums and teen hooligans ... by itself ... would be a very large step in correcting much of the negative image that some people might have of Atlanta.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by WilliamM

Strange. I don't have any handy numbers to throw out but if you were to examine the increase in residents to downtown from say 15 years ago, you would be hard pressed to argue that there hasn't been drastic change.

If you followed downtown redevelopment efforts, you'd also know that that hasn't been a coincidence, with developments such as Fairlie-Poplar and of course Georgia State playing an important role in this turnaround. So to argue that the city simply doesn't care about downtown is patently false.

But of course, as I said above, the REAL interesting development here is what is happening on a socio-economic level in the region as a whole. Around 1990 the average income of residents of the city as a whole had dropped to considerably less than that of the surrounding suburbs, but by about 2006 it had reversed and the city residents made on average 30% more than people in the surrounding areas. As a recent piece in The New Republic pointed out, THIS is the real interesting development that's underway and it's happening all over the country (but no where with more breathtaking results than here in Atlanta). So don't worry. Eventually you're precious downtown is likely going to get denser and going to go more upscale. The real issue, though, is that unless you're pulling in a couple of hundred thou a year you might not be able to live down that way. See what I mean?

But leaving that aside, I just don't get why you're making such a fuss about downtown per se. Downtown is merely one part of a larger set of factors. It would be like making a huge deal about Lower Manhatten not getting ALL the attention by New York planners, developers and residents, just because of some sentimental notion that a city should have a nice organic "core" before which everything else must bow. Even New York City, that most classical of all urban specimens, doesn't follow such a neat pattern.

You make some excellent points.

I happen to have the numbers handy - or at least Central Atlanta Progress does. The numbers are from 2000 to 2008 for the four square mile downtown area bordered buy North Avenue, Memorial Drive, Northside Drive and Boulevard.

Housing units increased from 10,546 to 18,575
Population from 21,502 to 37,872
Median income from $31,000 to $46,000

The data is on pages 25 and 26 of this pdf presentation.

[coolyfett]

Originally Posted by Georgia

If your going to be a Mayor of a major city, the Mayor has to "love" the city. Case in point, Philadelphia. Lived in that area for well over a decade "Go Eagles", Mayor, now Governor Rendell, a Democrat, yes I'm giving prop's to a Dem loves his hometown.

Yooo!!! I remember that dude. That guy was a really good mayor. I totally agree with this point and idea. And you know what....doesn't seem like Ms Franklin is too gun hoe about the ATL. Love for the city itself speaks volumes. Its not just a job, its a relationship with the citizens.

As far as the OP, lets not call her names. After all at least she is not a troll, like other topics we have seen on this board. I don't agree with the OP, but the OP is a chick, if it was a dude I think traffic would be the only beef. She just hasn't meet any fun guys here yet. Maybe she is lonely. I really like this city. There is fresh meat (women) everywhere. This has been one of the best years of my life and I only been here 8 months. I can only imagine what fun I will have once the job market changes up and more options are on the table. Go Falcons too, I'm starting to dig those guys. I really think the OP needs some friends. Im not gonna call her idiot or dumb, cause that's unneeded. There is lots to do here. I don't know how anyone could call the Atlanta area a failed city though.

[WilliamM]

Originally Posted by coolyfett

As far as the OP, lets not call her names. After all at least she is not a troll, like other topics we have seen on this board. I don't agree with the OP, but the OP is a chick, if it was a dude I think traffic would be the only beef. She just hasn't meet any fun guys here yet. ... Im not gonna call her idiot or dumb, cause that's unneeded. ....

You're right, coolyfett. A little chivalry is in order here. There's clearly an ulterior motive involved. :-)