A Theory About Atlanta (Commerce, Boston: landscaping, neighborhoods, theater)

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

You make some excellent points.

I happen to have the numbers handy - or at least Central Atlanta Progress does. The numbers are from 2000 to 2008 for the four square mile downtown area bordered buy North Avenue, Memorial Drive, Northside Drive and Boulevard.

Housing units increased from 10,546 to 18,575
Population from 21,502 to 37,872
Median income from $31,000 to $46,000

The data is on pages 25 and 26 of this pdf presentation.

Thank you for presenting the factual data...it specifically shows the steady rise of downtown over the past few years, contrary to the comments of several people in this thread who are probably going by a limited or outdated vision of downtown. The population increase is in addition to new developments like Centennial Park, the Georgia Aquarium, Georgia State improvements, Allen Plaza, etc. Downtown has come a long way since the 1996 Olympics.

Since traditional U.S. downtowns are normally the cbd in most cities, downtowns usually don't have that kind of population...Atlanta's downtown is doing quite well comparatively:

Downtown Chicago - 17,000
Downtown Dallas - 3,000
Downtown Miami - 14,000
Downtown Charlotte - 10,000
Downtown Baltimore - 37,000

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

My answer would be that both the planners of Atlanta and the developers of Atlanta don't care about bringing in residents to downtown.

Considering that downtown is the most connected portion of the city, I find this very strange.

Yeah, I do have a chip on my shoulder about this. I think it's just flat stupid to be frank.

Actually Midtown and Buckhead do not have most of the hotels...Downtown has huge convention hotels in the Westin, Marriott Marquis, and Hilton...plus a Ritz-Carlton, W, Hilton Garden, Wyndham, Holiday Inn, etc...and boutique hotels like the Glenn, Hotel Indigo and the Ellis.

And PLEASE see the facts about Downtown Atlanta's population increases and comparative numbers to other downtowns.

[blondandfun]

Those statistics have more to do with there being more open space in downtown Atlanta compared to Chicago, and the fact that Atlanta has a lot of residential construction of condos.

Midtown is a place though where residents who actually live in Atlanta, not just tourists, hang out and go to the arts museum or see a show. Local residents have no reason to buy a condo in downtown, because there is no culture there. I think how it's setup is fine with Midtown being the center of the arts.. I think it's suitable.

My problem with Atlanta is that I don't see any effort to bring existing Atlantans into downtown.. both publicly or privately, everybody seems to have just accepted that downtown is the place where all the bums hang out. Maybe they could try again with making downtown the entertainment district and expanding operating hours. Being that it's the most connected area to MARTA would also help.

Your statistics aren't bad, but they don't replace a thorough walk through the area during any time of day on a Saturday (not excluding a convention!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! )

If you don't think it's in a sad sad sad state then you.... blah

[J2rescue]

No one would argue that downtown Atlanta is not what anyone would like it to be but the statistics simply do not agree with your assertions.

One thing that amazes me is that after a few decades of white flight, dumping the homeless in the city, subsidizing and in many cases mandating sprawl that people are somehow shocked and appalled to discover poor minorities and homeless people in the city. Im referring to people with knowledge of the history of this city and I'll go out on a limb and assume that this does not apply to blondandblond.






Again relying on Central Atlanta Progress, downtown arts and culture. (As a matter of fact, here is the CAP website where you can find information on projects and initiatives planned for downtown.)

• 3TEN HAUSTUDIO - 310 Peters St SW
• The APEX Museum - 135 Auburn Ave
• Arts for All Gallery at VSA arts of Georgia - 57 Forsyth St
• Atlanta Contemporary Art Center - 535 Means St
• Clay's Gallery - 572 Edgewood Ave
• Ernest G. Welch School of Art + Design Gallery - 10 Peachtree Center Ave
• Eyedrum Art and Music Gallery - 290 Martin Luther King Jr Dr SE
• The King Center - 449 Auburn Ave NE
• Krause Gallery - 291 Peters St
• Lynne Farris Gallery - 50 Hurt Plz
• Marcia Wood Gallery - 263 Walker St
• Martin Luther King, Jr. National Historic Site - 450 Auburn Ave NE
• Museum of Design Atlanta - 285 Peachtree Center Ave
• Paige Harvey Art Studio - 132 Cone St
• The Rialto Center for the Arts - 80 Forsyth St NW
• Skot Foreman Fine Art - 315 Peters St SW
• Stable 1897 - 261 Peters St
• Sue's Studio & Gallery - 231 Peachtree St
• Ty Stokes Gallery - 261 Walker St
• Theatrical Outfit - 84 Luckie St
• True Colors Theatre Company - 659 Auburn Ave
• Youth Art Connection Gallery - 63 Auburn Ave

[JeanetteDi]

I don't agree with your chosen words or blatant disgust with ATL, but I do laugh at how much people consider Atlanta some huge city. Actually, I truly laughed the first time I drove through Atlanta, as I was in and out in no time, and there were houses in the middle of the city, and supermarkets, Targets, etc. To me Atlanta is a suburb with tall office buildings and crazy traffic. The "ghetto" is a joke that the dwellers are so proud to be a part of, but yet is safer than any suburb of any other city. Little 5 Points is simply where crack and weed meet to die, dressed as a quaint hippie town gone low class. The traffic is ridiculous because the city is so small that no one can actually live in it. But the schools are good, parents care enough to try to keep the neighborhoods clean and safe, the aesthetic appeal of Atlanta is high - lots of trees and care given to landscaping. The museums are tiny, but they try, which is better than nothing. Stuff is very small in Atlanta, but the residents do everything possible to improve on what they have. Look at the Fox - tiny but BEAUTIFUL.

[J2rescue]

The size of the city is something to consider. At its peak population back in the 70's(?) the city was around 500,000 and then slowly declined for a couple of decades. Its already surpassed its former peak population and is nowhere close to being "built out".

In comparison, Philadelphia at its peak was at 2 million and has since declined to 1.5 million in a nearly identical land area as Atlanta.

Basically, what you say is true. In terms of the built environment, Atlanta has never been a "big city" but more of a large southern town especially with the development being divided among three districts. Atlanta has developed in a different way and in a different era and alot of people here prefer it that way.

[VJP]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

I think you could almost call Atlanta an abandoned city, like Detroit, as far as downtown is concerned. Just to see the looks on all the tourists faces today during my walk downtown was quite embarrassing to me, to be an Atlantan. I think that it is pretty ignorant for people to brush that off as if that's how it is and we accept it.

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't downtown LA nicer than downtown ATL?
Also, remember that downtown LA is also accessible more easily with a grid system. Atlanta is only accessible by North/South Streets, Except North AVe and Atlanta Rd.

What are you on about? I am a part time club DJ...the fact that we turned out five hundred people through the doors on a dreary and cold Friday night in downtown near the tourist triangle at least assures me that some aspects (tho not for everyone) about downtown are alive and well, while stigmas keep people away and out of other areas.

Sounds to me like you need to get on out of here lest my ignorance rubs off on you. If all you seek is a downtown powerhouse whatever mecca, why don't you get on out of here and go to Boston, Chi, or NYC? Seattle and San FRan will work too, since you said you can 'get a job in another city'.

Some of us don't bounce from job to job and career development keeps us making sacrifices on places we'd like to live while appreciating what we do have. Involvement in community dev/activities is what I do to do my part to make my town fun, instead of whining about it like you.

My fingers are getting tired from typing this same sort of thing out every few weeks..

[BringBackCobain]

Atlanta is on the upswing right now. if you had said this in 1978 or 1989 I would have agreed with you, becuase at that point it looked hopeless for Atlanta. A little thing called the Olympics moved the city up from a level on par with Memphis or Birmingham. What you are seeing now with the explosion of residents in Atlanta is a transition from a Memphis into an "international city", and it could take some years, but thats where it is heading. It is definitely NOT regressing, due to the effects of both the Olympics and the intown living trend. Population growth/decline changes EVERY characteristic of a city. It is going to be hard for the current power machin to F*ck things up now.

Try going to the library and check out a book about the way Atlanta changed from 1960 to 1980. It was drastic, and every aspect of the city was altered due to the citizens it lost. Nothing was left untouched. History repeats itself, and when Atlanta's drastic growth peaks, it will be a completely different city than today.

So just wait and see what changes this growth will bring.

[WilliamM]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

My problem with Atlanta is that I don't see any effort to bring existing Atlantans into downtown.. both publicly or privately, everybody seems to have just accepted that downtown is the place where all the bums hang out. Maybe they could try again with making downtown the entertainment district and expanding operating hours.

I have just two words for you: UNDERGROUND ATLANTA

[WilliamM]

Originally Posted by JeanetteDi

Actually, I truly laughed the first time I drove through Atlanta, as I was in and out in no time, and there were houses in the middle of the city, and supermarkets, Targets, etc. To me Atlanta is a suburb with tall office buildings and crazy traffic. The "ghetto" is a joke that the dwellers are so proud to be a part of, but yet is safer than any suburb of any other city. Little 5 Points is simply where crack and weed meet to die, dressed as a quaint hippie town gone low class. The traffic is ridiculous because the city is so small that no one can actually live in it. But the schools are good, parents care enough to try to keep the neighborhoods clean and safe, the aesthetic appeal of Atlanta is high - lots of trees and care given to landscaping. The museums are tiny, but they try, which is better than nothing. Stuff is very small in Atlanta, but the residents do everything possible to improve on what they have. Look at the Fox - tiny but BEAUTIFUL.

JeannetteDi, yours is precisely the kind of condescension I just can't help but take exception to whenever I encounter it. To speak of the city as being so small you must be comparing from a NY or maybe Chicago standpoint, am I right?

Well, if you'd dispense with the attitude, you might be able to arrive at some better insight into what Atlanta is about, I'd say, on both a factual level (L5P has not 'gone low class' - it's long been a redeveloping area and it's flatly untrue that 'nobody' lives in Atlanta, as this whole thread has demonstrated) and otherwise.

But of course on one level you're right. Atlanta is little (from the 'organic' snob standpoint of a city as a self-contained organism) but in other ways Atlanta is a monster that even gives LA a run for the title in the uncontrolled growth category.

Also, I don't think I even agree with your condescending attempts at complemnting Atlanta. Atlanta doesn't necessarily have "aesthetic appeal" as you say. (I mean, go to Bruges or Venice, or Savannah if it's a nice picture perfect city you want.) Atlanta, again like its close cousin LA, is a monster in aesthetic terms, but in that very monstrosity there lies a certain aesthetic character but only as long as it's understood that we're talking about a kind of anti-aesthetic here.

Sorry to rant, but you got my dander up there with you're slightly inane remarks.