A Theory About Atlanta (Sandy Springs, Dunwoody: house, tenants, subsidized)

[blondandfun]

Originally Posted by coolyfett

I still can't figure out what the OP actually want or what gender it actually is. The thing is confusing.

You don't seem intelligent enough to have a valuable response, but I'm a male... what does that have to do with anything?

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

So you think Underground Atlanta is successful? You're out of touch with reality. I wasn't blathering, re-read my post. Underground FAILED for the 3rd or 4th time just a few years ago, how is that an idiotic claim?

That's a fact, Charlie Brown's Caberet even failed, because of the sad condition of the area, and the unwillingness for any of the 5 MILLION area residents to make the trip.

I wasn't aware that you were specifically talking about Underground. It is hard to keep up with your wandering rants. And it is just an oft-repeated myth that Underground has failed 3 or 4 times.

The original was basically the French Quarter for many years, and I'm told it was a blast. It started to wane with some of the outer Counties going "wet" back in the 70's, an uptick in crime in the surrounding area, and then MARTA contruction pretty much did it in until it's much heralded re-birth in the late 80's. The present reincarnation of Underground was doing just fine until the Rodney King disturbances. That was a huge turning point IMO for all of downtown.

Downtown outside of the immediate Five Points/Underground area is much improved since the Olympics, and the facts back this up.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

Ok...I'm not going to try and figure out why you think Atlanta is "small". The city limits cover an area of 132 square miles, which is about average I guess, but certainly not a small space. Physical size isn't really something that cities are after, so I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with that.

I'm glad you think the city is safer than the suburbs of other cities. That's the first time I've ever run across anyone trying to put down a city by calling it safe.

The Fox Theater...small? Again, that doesn't make sense at all. The Fox seats 4,700, and is a nationally known venue that attracts major shows and entertainers. The building is a unique design that is on the National Register of Historic Places. I'm thinking you've never been to the Fox because it's difficult not to be impressed upon seeing the interior for the first time.

Some similar venues in other cities:

Carnegie Hall...2,800
Chicago Theater...3,600
Radio City Music Hall...5,900
Kennedy Center...2,500/2,300
Disney Concert Hall...2,300
Shrine Auditorium...6,300
Boston Symphony Hall...2,400
Atlanta Civic Center...4,600
Ryman Auditorium...2,400

These venues are intimate but they are meant to be that way...higher quality, smaller crowds. There are plenty of large arenas like Philips Arena, Gwinnett Arena, Coco-Cola Amphitheater, the Georgia Dome, etc. So...in conclusion...the Fox is not in any way "tiny" - but it was never meant to be a large venue.

Thanks Deacon and others for replying to this. Saved me time. Atlanta, small? Because of houses near the central city?

OK, might have gone with that as a valid point until the Fox got called small. Initially its a movie theatre for gosh sakes! Where can one find such a grand example of a movie theatre? The folks that made the latest King Kong movie used its interior for the final big King Kong in New York show!

Atlantas close in neighborhoods with lots of trees is its charm. Forget the need to be a Manhattan or Chicago with nothing but concrete and steel.

[WilliamM]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

Don't you think I thought of that? I think with any failure it's best to wipe it off and try again. I know it's hard, and I actually thought the caberet in underground a few years ago was cool and it attracted more than tourists.

The city has really screwed up an opportunity to put downtown in order and bring the bars/clubs in.

I was harsh to call Atlanta a failed city.. I'd say it's just failing in certain areas.

Good, I'm glad you recognized that glaring discrepancy in the facts and your claim (only a discrepancy because of the wording of your complaint that the city had not shown sufficient care or effort in addressing the challenge of downtown).

As for the city 'screwing up' the opportunity to get downtown right, which opportunity exactly are you referring to? As I tried to show in bringing up the recent piece in the New Republic, one can make a very good argument that it has only been since about 2000 that such an opportunity has even been really possible due to a variety of broader socio-economic developoments, of which Atlanta is just one example. (Not saying it's a fact, just that it's arguable.) But in any case, efforts in Atlanta to revive downtown have been ongoing since well before that time, but there have been many complex factors at work, some of them seemingly canceling out each other (scandals in mayoral administrations, changes since 2000 in leadership both at local and state level with considerable implications for urban renewal efforts, a national administration even less committed than earlier ones to urban renewal and even hostile to cities, etc.). This paradoxically even as the above-mentioned reversal of fortune in cities around the nation is taking place. It's enough to make an urbanist drool.

As for being 'harsh' in calling Atlanta a 'failed' city, no need to apologize at least as far as I'm concerned. I have no problem with a provocative thesis, esp. one that addresses the larger question of what a city is as an ethical human project. Whether I agree with it or not is beside the point. The proof in the pudding is what arguments you muster to support the point and how cleverly and patiently you defend them.

Sorry to all for being so pedantic. Guess the ex-academic in me is really showing here.

[johnatl]

Oh, and as far as Charlie Brown's Caberet, I would venture to say that maybe .5% of the metro may know who/what Charlie Brown is. It's a shame he didn't make it, but in the grand scheme of things how many people do you think even consider Underground as a nightlife option anymore?

[DPAT]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

So you think Underground Atlanta is successful? You're out of touch with reality. I wasn't blathering, re-read my post. Underground FAILED for the 3rd or 4th time just a few years ago, how is that an idiotic claim?

I don't think you will find many people here that will disagree with this particular claim - as the dismal state of the Underground has already been discussed in depth. However, The Underground is only one place in the city of Atlanta. The major problem that I feel you are having is that you seem to completely ignore all of the facts, statistics, and other notable venues in downtown Atlanta that other people have mentioned. It's as if you are covering your ears and yelling "lalalalalala...." so you cannot here the truth. Are trying to hinge the state of the entire city of Atlanta to the Underground? It's becomming frustrating even trying to follow your logic. Perhaps you should speak to the part(s) of Atlanta that you think are failING as opposed to trying to convince people that the entire city itself has failED.

[Crazy Virgo Child]

Originally Posted by johnatl

Oh, and as far as Charlie Brown's Caberet, I would venture to say that maybe .5% of the metro may know who/what Charlie Brown is. It's a shame he didn't make it, but in the grand scheme of things how many people do you think even consider Underground as a nightlife option anymore?

Allot actually, just probably not anybody you know. For the AUC college crowd, and the 21-30 urban crowd, Underground jumps on the weekends. A friend of mine throws parties at Club Motions in Underground on Sat. nights, and he makes money hand over fist down there. I personally dont like Underground though as it’s not my taste, but people do go, you would be surprised.

[coolyfett]

Originally Posted by blondandfun

You don't seem intelligent enough to have a valuable response, but I'm a male... what does that have to do with anything?

......

Well first off your a dude behaving like a chick. Maybe you are gay, if so that's cool. You on a forum with your "I hate Atlanta rant" posters are smacking you in the face with factual information yet you still argue. If you don't like Atlanta....save up and move. This is America you have no reason to live in a place you don't like. There are many options in this country, find one and be happy. I love the Underground, I feel very relaxed there. Then again we are probably different types of men.

Relocating is your best option.

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by Crazy Virgo Child

Allot actually, just probably not anybody you know. For the AUC college crowd, and the 21-30 urban crowd, Underground jumps on the weekends. A friend of mine throws parties at Club Motions in Underground on Sat. nights, and he makes money hand over fist down there. I personally dont like Underground though as it’s not my taste, but people do go, you would be surprised.

Thanks for bringing me up to speed, Crazy. I haven't been in a loooooong time, but used to love hanging out at Fat Tuesdays back in the day.

With the local medias steady and unrelenting drumbeat of constantly bashing Five Points, it's good to hear people are still going to Underground. I had no idea it was still hopping club-wise.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by coolyfett

......

Well first off your a dude behaving like a chick. Maybe you are gay, if so that's cool. You on a forum with your "I hate Atlanta rant" posters are smacking you in the face with factual information yet you still argue. If you don't like Atlanta....save up and move. This is America you have no reason to live in a place you don't like. There are many options in this country, find one and be happy. I love the Underground, I feel very relaxed there. Then again we are probably different types of men.

Relocating is your best option.

A rep point for making me chuckle.