ATl people how do you really feel about Charlotte?? (Atlanta: 2014, community college)
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Nope! ) because you did it again Your confusing the ideal that North Carolina has more medium metros as North Carolina having more urban areas across the state. Again same area more names that basically what your trying to say. For having more metros over a million but at the same time have about the same or less development I don't see what's to brag about. It's playing fraction.
I see why you're arguing a point with me that really isn't arguable: I'm not "bragging" about anything, I'm merely stating a fact. That's why you keep saying that I'm saying something that I have made emphatically clear that I'm not. It is clear that NC has more midsize metros, which translates into numerically more urban areas across the state. Going back to what I said earlier in this thread, the state of NC has put more policies in place that have resulted in more development spread throughout its major metro areas. But at the same time, no city in NC has had progressive leadership to the level that Atlanta has. Those are advantages for both. I'm not in any sort of pissing contest with Atlanta or Georgia, so I have no problem saying so.
Square mileage isn't a factor here, and even if it were, the square mileage of the core counties of the Piedmont Crescent (Mecklenburg, Forsyth, Guilford, Durham, Wake) is actually larger than the square mileage of Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, and Gwinnett. But that's not even a point I'm making here. My point is that on a state level, NC state leadership has helped to enact policies that have helped to distribute the wealth across the state in a way that simply hasn't occurred in Georgia.
If you're still adamant about thinking in terms of square mileage and not in the primary political sense I'm referring to, think about it like this. Within a 50 miles radius from Atlanta, you've covered the bulk of development within the four core counties of metro Atlanta. That covers all of the major office centers (downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter, Cumberland), the major malls, the largest suburbs (Marietta, Sandy Springs, Decatur, etc.), etc. That even gives you some of the exurban counties that still contain a good bit of rural areas within them. Now let's consider what lies inside of a 50 mile radius of the center of the Piedmont Crescent, which is roughly Guilford County (Greensboro). You get Guilford County itself of course (Greensboro and High Point), neighboring Forsyth County (Winston-Salem), and just a bit inside Durham County, just shy of the city of Durham itself and not even covering Research Triangle Park, the nation's largest research park at 7,000 acres, 11,000 workers, and almost 10 million square feet of office space. The two largest counties in the Crescent, Mecklenburg and Wake, are nowhere within this radius at all so that also excludes the Charlotte central business district with over 21 million square feet of office space. This demonstrates what I'm trying to show here. Although the actual Atlanta metro area and the Piedmont Crescent cover similar amounts of land, the high-intensity development within metro Atlanta is pretty much centralized, and then you've got the lower-intensity development at the edges. In NC, there are three nodes of high-intensity development because they are within three separate metro areas, and then lower-intensity development surrounds each of them. There is more of an equalization of wealth and hence development throughout NC.
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Considering the fact Coweta, and Carroll are over 100,000 and Rockdale isn’t far off from. If you chose to dismiss them you have to dismiss most counties in North Carolina’s piedmont crescent and then North Carolina won’t have any metros over a million. If Coweta, and Carroll aren’t develop enough to you LMAO then so isn’t most of the counties in Metro Charlotte, Raleigh and the triad area now to me by same standard just saying.
Actually, I am doing the same for NC since I'm only considering the core counties of the Piedmont Cresent that contain the bulk of the development (Mecklenburg, Forsyth, Guilford, Durham, Raleigh). Gaston, Davidson, Orange, etc. counties are standard suburban/exurban counties with a traditional town center or two and a bunch of low-quality sprawl, very similar to Coweta or Rockdale counties. That's a wash since you can find counties like that throughout both states that aren't even connected to a major metro area. My concern in focusing on the core counties here isn't population per se (although it's relevant), but development, specifically high-intensity development. And actually the Triangle would be over a million with its core counties Wake and Durham.
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Georgia is 5,500 square miles larger than NC, true but Georgia is also 400,000 more people than NC. But I don’t see the relevance of this.
I mentioned that because you said, "The development outside of Atlanta in GA is about the same as the development in NC outside the piedmont crescent." If that's true and NC is a bit smaller, then it has more development per capita than GA. Those 400,000 more people in GA don't really correspond to development in the sense that we mean it because they are found in mostly rural areas. But that was just something I threw out there in response to that statement of yours.
The big difference between North Carolina and Georgia is that Metro Atlanta is also the state capital and home to three of the five largest public universities (Georgia State, Kennesaw State and Georgia Tech) as well as the state's largest and most prestigious private university (Emory). If the universities and/or state offices were located in one of the other second-tier Georgia cities -- say the state capital were in Macon and Georgia Tech in Columbus -- the population of the state would be more evenly distributed across all cities. Of course, on the flip side Atlanta would likely not be the 8th largest metropolitan area in the country, though it would likely still be larger than any of N.C.'s metros.
What is interesting is how North Carolina has more mid-sized cities than Georgia, and yet Georgia's population still outranks N.C. by about a half million. I think what people often overlook, and don't give enough credit to, is the large number of THIRD-tier cities in Georgia -- Dalton, Rome, Gainesville, Warner Robins, Albany, Valdosta, Brunswick, Hinesville, LaGrange, etc. -- which are all metro areas in their own right. North Carolina's largest cities are mostly in one of three urban clusters, whereas that half of Georgia's population outside Metro Atlanta is truly spread out across the state.
Sometimes I think that outsiders look at Georgia's second-tier cities and assume they do not have any political or economic clout or are not desirable places to live, because Atlanta dominates the state, and this is simply not true. Georgia's second-tier cities are equals to the "large" cities in other Southern states -- South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Kentucky -- and are growing, just not on the scale of Metro Atlanta.
I see why you're arguing a point with me that really isn't arguable: I'm not "bragging" about anything, I'm merely stating a fact. That's why you keep saying that I'm saying something that I have made emphatically clear that I'm not. It is clear that NC has more midsize metros, which translates into numerically more urban areas across the state. Going back to what I said earlier in this thread, the state of NC has put more policies in place that have resulted in more development spread throughout its major metro areas. But at the same time, no city in NC has had progressive leadership to the level that Atlanta has. Those are advantages for both. I'm not in any sort of pissing contest with Atlanta or Georgia, so I have no problem saying so.
Square mileage isn't a factor here, and even if it were, the square mileage of the core counties of the Piedmont Crescent (Mecklenburg, Forsyth, Guilford, Durham, Wake) is actually larger than the square mileage of Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, and Gwinnett. But that's not even a point I'm making here. My point is that on a state level, NC state leadership has helped to enact policies that have helped to distribute the wealth across the state in a way that simply hasn't occurred in Georgia.
Again fractions 1/3 is the samething as 3/9. Metaphorically your saying North Carolina 3/9, is more distribute than Georgia being 1/3 flawed! this is what I’m trying to point out. Because the NC’s Piedmont Crescent metros abut each other and Metro Atlanta has clearly about the same sq mi area as them, both states end up with the majority of development on their piedmont region. How the heck did you come up with North Carolina distribute across the state more? What happen, instead of having one large metro area North Carolina broken it’s piedmont region is broken into medium 3 metros. again Your confusing the ideal that North Carolina has more medium metros as North Carolina having more urban areas across the state.
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If you're still adamant about thinking in terms of square mileage and not in the primary political sense I'm referring to, think about it like this. Within a 50 miles radius from Atlanta, you've covered the bulk of development within the four core counties of metro Atlanta. That covers all of the major office centers (downtown, Midtown, Buckhead, Perimeter, Cumberland), the major malls, the largest suburbs (Marietta, Sandy Springs, Decatur, etc.), etc. That even gives you some of the exurban counties that still contain a good bit of rural areas within them. Now let's consider what lies inside of a 50 mile radius of the center of the Piedmont Crescent, which is roughly Guilford County (Greensboro). You get Guilford County itself of course (Greensboro and High Point), neighboring Forsyth County (Winston-Salem), and just a bit inside Durham County, just shy of the city of Durham itself and not even covering Research Triangle Park, the nation's largest research park at 7,000 acres, 11,000 workers, and almost 10 million square feet of office space. The two largest counties in the Crescent, Mecklenburg and Wake, are nowhere within this radius at all so that also excludes the Charlotte central business district with over 21 million square feet of office space. This demonstrates what I'm trying to show here. Although the actual Atlanta metro area and the Piedmont Crescent cover similar amounts of land, the high-intensity development within metro Atlanta is pretty much centralized, and then you've got the lower-intensity development at the edges. In NC, there are three nodes of high-intensity development because they are within three separate metro areas, and then lower-intensity development surrounds each of them. There is more of an equalization of wealth and hence development throughout NC.
WTF I just posted the amount counties over 100,000 in the piedmont cressent and Atlanta CSA it's comparable )
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Actually, I am doing the same for NC since I'm only considering the core counties of the Piedmont Cresent that contain the bulk of the development (Mecklenburg, Forsyth, Guilford, Durham, Raleigh). Gaston, Davidson, Orange, etc. counties are standard suburban/exurban counties with a traditional town center or two and a bunch of low-quality sprawl, very similar to Coweta or Rockdale counties. That's a wash since you can find counties like that throughout both states that aren't even connected to a major metro area. My concern in focusing on the core counties here isn't population per se (although it's relevant), but development, specifically high-intensity development. And actually the Triangle would be over a million with its core counties Wake and Durham.
First off I going by MSA and CSA. Second off Clayton County is consider a core metro Atlanta county there's 5 five. Third off if I want to be technical only 2 metros in North Carolina are over million, since the triad isn’t a MSA but CSA. Last you did exactly what I said that would reduce NC to having no metros over million may be still Charlotte. Durham and Raleigh aren’t the same MSA but however Raleigh-Cary MSA is 1,125,827 but take the counties away from Raleigh-Cary that’s not develop enough approximately that means everyone besides wake county.
Again if you want to be technical since were only talking about develop areas the US census does define urban areas.
If your going to ignore suburban/exurban counties or low-quality sprawl as you call it this what your going to come out with. You can't try to limit Atlanta to it's core but the not the piedmont cresent cities. And no your not comparing core areas to core areas. Atlanta’s urban area is a little bigger than the 5 core county area while no piedmont crescent city urban area goes beyond or make up the principle county their in. So Again don’t drop Atlanta suburban counties unless your going to limit the piedmont crescent cities by the same standard. Here's a link so you can find maps of these urban areas.
I mentioned that because you said, "The development outside of Atlanta in GA is about the same as the development in NC outside the piedmont crescent." If that's true and NC is a bit smaller, then it has more development per capita than GA. Those 400,000 more people in GA don't really correspond to development in the sense that we mean it because they are found in mostly rural areas. But that was just something I threw out there in response to that statement of yours.
The big difference between North Carolina and Georgia is that Metro Atlanta is also the state capital and home to three of the five largest public universities (Georgia State, Kennesaw State and Georgia Tech) as well as the state's largest and most prestigious private university (Emory). If the universities and/or state offices were located in one of the other second-tier Georgia cities -- .....
What is interesting is how North Carolina has more mid-sized cities than Georgia, and yet Georgia's population still outranks N.C. by about a half million. I think what people often overlook, and don't give enough credit to, is the large number of THIRD-tier cities in Georgia -- Dalton, Rome, Gainesville, Warner Robins, Albany, Valdosta, Brunswick, Hinesville, LaGrange, etc. -- which are all metro areas in their own right. North Carolina's largest cities are mostly in one of three urban clusters, whereas that half of Georgia's population outside Metro Atlanta is truly spread out across the state.
Sometimes I think that outsiders look at Georgia's second-tier cities and assume they do not have any political or economic clout or are not desirable places to live, because Atlanta dominates the state, and this is simply not true. Georgia's second-tier cities are equals to the "large" cities in other Southern states -- South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Kentucky -- and are growing, just not on the scale of Metro Atlanta.
Nice post with some interesting insights.
Just wanted to add - don't forget Georgia also has the historic city of Savannah, also a mid-sized city by any definition and a tourist magnet many states would kill to have.
Nascar may have arrived in North Carolina from Daytona Beach, where it started, but Charlotte also has attracted plenty of Northerners as it became a banking center. It is now the biggest city in the Carolinas, and Stop 3 on my five-destination trip via JetBlue’s All You Can Jet pass. Nascar notwithstanding, it was certainly the least traditionally touristy place on my itinerary. But the city — which has experienced rapid growth (with a population of over 700,000, double what it was in the mid-1980s) and at the same time maintained a relative lack of identity (banking center and airline hub, total snoozer) — intrigued me. Something had to be going on there, and I would find out what it was.
Before you guys go any further, I just have to point out that there are 5 core Counties not 4. Cobb, Dekalb, Fulton, Gwinnett, and Clayton; the base of the Torch that holds up the core.
These population density maps from Wikipedia show how the majority of people in both states are clustered A) in the Carolina Piedmont and B) in Metro Atlanta. But they also illustrate the fact that there are pockets of urbanity throughout both as well. You can also see with the naked eye how there is much more dense urbanity in Metro Atlanta than in the NC metros combined.
Combined populations of Metrolina, Triad and Triangle CSAs = 5,631,947 Population of the Atlanta CSA = 5,831,728
Interesting, still, is the fact that the two least populated regions of North Carolina are also the most celebrated geographically -- the Outer Banks and the Great Smokey Mountains.
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) because you did it again Your confusing the ideal that North Carolina has more medium metros as North Carolina having more urban areas across the state. Again same area more names that basically what your trying to say. For having more metros over a million but at the same time have about the same or less development I don't see what's to brag about. It's playing fraction.
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