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Old 01-27-2009, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,521 posts, read 4,264,962 times
Reputation: 2286

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blondandfun View Post
I agree with your points rcsteiner.
But, let's say that the top level done run the company into the ground... who cares?
Those employees can pack up their *hit and go work for Lowes, which would triple it's stores.
We sure as hell don't need the government regulating CEO's, is that what you're proposing?

Look at Japan, they are rated one of the most free market economy with no intervention hardly. Their corporations last a long time and their employees are the highest payed in the world.

I'm not lecturing because I'm not a business expert or anything

Anyways, I think we're going in circles, because Home depot, the topic, really hasn't done anything wrong.. Those Expos centers should have been shut down years ago and I'm glad they are finally shutting them down.
Doesn't Japan regulate their companies a bit more? I read somewhere that a lot of the profits that are earned in Japanese companies are mostly re-invested into the company iself to make it stronger, so you won't see the exorbitant CEO salaries bonuses there like you see here in the U.S.

Besides Japan has an UNDENIABLY socialistic healthcare system, so I definitely wouldn't use that country as an example of unfettered and unregulated Capitalism.
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Old 01-27-2009, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,595,912 times
Reputation: 1723
Quote:
Look at Japan, they are rated one of the most free market economy with no intervention hardly. Their corporations last a long time and their employees are the highest payed in the world.
Actually we could learn alot from Japanese companies. Afterall, it's partially because of them so thoroughly whipping our butts competitively in manufacturing that we're in the mess we are in now. But, Japan does enjoy several advantages over our companies that have helped make them successfull.

1. In Japan there is free health care provided by the government. This saves Japanese companies billions of dollars in insurance cost. Ford and GM for instance spend more money per car on health insurance than they do on steel. Japanese Automakers definitely save alot over American Co.s there.

2. Very many Japanese companies like Toyota and Nissan benefit from belonging to huge conglomerates that can aide them with things like low interest rate loans from their sister bank companies and many other advantages. Antitrust laws in America would not allow such monster companies to exist.

3. Japanese manufacturing gets much aide and support from Japanese government with organizations like MITI and other large government agencies making all kinds of efforts to keep Japanese Industry ahead of global competition. Of course one of the reasons Japans government can afford such initiatives is because they have very very little defense spending since the end of WWII (They weren't allowed to have a large military anymore after losing the war and don't need one. Our military has and does provide defense for them).


Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Doesn't Japan regulate their companies a bit more? I read somewhere that a lot of the profits that are earned in Japanese companies are mostly re-invested into the company iself to make it stronger, so you won't see the exorbitant CEO salaries bonuses there like you see here in the U.S.

Besides Japan has an UNDENIABLY socialistic healthcare system, so I definitely wouldn't use that country as an example of unfettered and unregulated Capitalism.
It is true Japanese companies are much much more long range oriented than American companies. They are partially able to be this way because they are able to rely on relatively low interest rate long term loans for capital more as opposed to fickle stock market investors who are looking for quick improvements every quarter.

Toyota (which recently became the world's biggest auto manufacturer) Is a prime example of everything the Japanese are doing right and American Companies are doing wrong.

They think and plan long range.

They hire leaders that have been brought up in the company for years mostly from manufacturing or engineering. American companies hire hot shot financiers from the outside to turn their companies around.

They are and always have been very innovative and quality oriented. American companies were at one point but got arrogant and complacent. Now they are starting to turn that around out of necessity.

They realize that they can't be the best companies without developing and keeping the best employees (especially those down on the factory floor, not up in offices!!) And the last,.. last!!! thing they want to do is lay off these workers. (Toyota keeps a 15 billion dollar fund set back for the purpose of keeping their employees employed in the event of economic slow downs.)

Last edited by Galounger; 01-27-2009 at 10:18 PM..
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Old 01-27-2009, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,521 posts, read 4,264,962 times
Reputation: 2286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
Actually we could learn alot from Japanese companies. Afterall, it's partially because of them so thoroughly whipping our butts competitively in manufacturing that we're in the mess we are in now. But, Japan does enjoy several advantages over our companies that have helped make them successfull.

1. In Japan there is free health care provided by the government. This saves Japanese companies billions of dollars in insurance cost. Ford and GM for instance spend more money per car on health insurance than they do on steel. Japanese Automakers definitely save alot over American Co.s there.

2. Very many Japanese companies like Toyota and Nissan benefit from belonging to huge conglomerates that can aide them with things like low interest rate loans from their sister bank companies and many other advantages. Antitrust laws in America would not allow such monster companies to exist.

3. Japanese manufacturing gets much aide and support from Japanese government with organizations like MITI and other large government agencies making all kinds of efforts to keep Japanese Industry ahead of global competition. Of course one of the reasons Japans government can afford such initiatives is because they have very very little defense spending since the end of WWII (They weren't allowed to have a large military anymore after losing the war and don't need one. Our military has and does provide defense for them).




It is true Japanese companies are much much more long range oriented than American companies. They are partially able to be this way because they are able to rely on relatively low interest rate long term loans for capital more as opposed to fickle stock market investors who are looking for quick improvements every quarter.

Toyota (which recently became the world's biggest auto manufacturer) Is a prime example of everything the Japanese are doing right and American Companies are doing wrong.

They think and plan long range.

They hire leaders that have been brought up in the company for years often from manufacturing or engineering. American companies hire hot shot financiers from the outside to turn their companies around.

They are and always have been very innovative and quality oriented. American companies were at one point but got arrogant and complacent. Now they are starting to turn that around out of necessity.

They realize that they can't be the best companies without developing and keeping the best employees (especially those down on the factory floor, not up in offices!!) And the last,.. last!!! thing they want to do is lay off these workers. (Toyota keeps a 15 billion dollar fund set back for the purpose of keeping their employees employed in the event of economic slow downs.)
Several great points! How can anyone argue with this?
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Atlanta,GA
2,675 posts, read 5,557,963 times
Reputation: 1165
Great points Galounger. I was going to bring up points similar to yours about what I know about Japanese businesses. Thanks

Their philosophy of doing business is totally different from ours. We're paying for it dearly (We got too arrogant and complacent, not counting paying excessively for mediocrity..ahem. ..CEOS, with golden parachutes). Anyone want to refute these facts, I'm all ears.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,319 posts, read 22,505,230 times
Reputation: 3886
Quote:
Originally Posted by blondandfun View Post
I agree with your points rcsteiner.
But, let's say that the top level done run the company into the ground... who cares?
Those employees can pack up their *hit and go work for Lowes, which would triple it's stores.
We sure as hell don't need the government regulating CEO's, is that what you're proposing?
I'm not far enough in my thought process (or knowledgeable enough, in all probability) to propose anything.

I just know that I don't like some of what I've seen over the past 20 years working in corporate America, and I think some solutions are possible. Whether that also means "viable" is quite another issue...

Quote:
Anyways, I think we're going in circles, because Home depot, the topic, really hasn't done anything wrong.. Those Expos centers should have been shut down years ago and I'm glad they are finally shutting them down.
I agree that HD hasn't done anything wrong as far as I know in this instance, and it also sounds like the MST and Datamation groups at HQ may have been somewhat unneeded at this point.

Of course, many of the folks in those groups were kinda stuck there due to the current economy, so even if the writing on the well was obvious it wasn't an easy bullet to dodge.

I'm more sensitive to the plight of the people who were on the receiving end, especially since I've been there on more than one occasion.

Anyway... Thanks for the comments, everyone.
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Old 01-28-2009, 07:07 AM
 
Location: McDonough, GA
8 posts, read 15,002 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by cityrover View Post
Lure people into buying stuff on credit for years.

Jack their rates and smack them with penalties out the left field.

When people can no longer charge stuff they dont need with money they dont have, FIRE them.

Because we knowthat firing overtaxed and broke people is a great way to get them to spend more money to increase your business.

Ah capitalism. It's nice, isnt it?
Regardless of the lure/temptation to buy on credit, it's the individual's responsibility not to buy things he/she can't afford.
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Old 01-28-2009, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 3,969,139 times
Reputation: 959
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner View Post
Please speak for yourself. Sometimes life throws you a curve ball. Or several. Tens of thousands are finding that out this week, in fact. There was a time when I could max my 401k contributions and still have enough cash around to handle a year without work. Not anymore. I did that, it's almost all gone, and I still haven't recovered from that last time.

I'm sure there are lots of people who use credit unwisely. My dad was a finance guy, though, and taught me to try and be somewhat responsible fiscally. It doesn't seem to matter.
Here! Here! We've always been über-responsible with credit. We never carried credit card debt. Paid extra to reduce the principal on our mortgage. Lived well below our means. Much less house than we could afford. Had a decent saving ratio. Aside for my student loans we were sitting pretty. Then in an instant, things went from sugar to a really bad place. Yes, we were able to weather it better than many others because we had been prudent, but it still stings to know that all our hard work went out the window so quickly. We seriously doubt we'll ever recover, especially given that we had to move to a city where the cost of living is so much higher. I don't foresee us ever digging our way out, and for someone who always took pride in being a good steward I can't help being bitter.
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
625 posts, read 941,599 times
Reputation: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Here! Here! We've always been über-responsible with credit. We never carried credit card debt. Paid extra to reduce the principal on our mortgage. Lived well below our means. Much less house than we could afford. Had a decent saving ratio. Aside for my student loans we were sitting pretty. Then in an instant, things went from sugar to a really bad place. Yes, we were able to weather it better than many others because we had been prudent, but it still stings to know that all our hard work went out the window so quickly. We seriously doubt we'll ever recover, especially given that we had to move to a city where the cost of living is so much higher. I don't foresee us ever digging our way out, and for someone who always took pride in being a good steward I can't help being bitter.
That's pretty sad, I don't think people should be this vulnerable. I'm betting this was a health related issue? I believe health is the #1 bankrupt reason?

It's interesting how you hear doctors complaining about the malpractice insurance when they are paid so well AND the fact that more people are killed each year because of their ignorance than breast cancer.

Maybe CEO's should be required to have malpractice insurance? or pay up if they screw up?
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,479 posts, read 6,354,151 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
1. In Japan there is free health care provided by the government. This saves Japanese companies billions of dollars in insurance cost. Ford and GM for instance spend more money per car on health insurance than they do on steel. Japanese Automakers definitely save alot over American Co.s there.
Nothing is free, as your following statements have shown here. There is a cost involved, so let's not mask it as something that comes out of thin air.

I also think another factor is the overall hardworking nature of Japanese workers. Many work 12-16 hour workdays. It is a cultural aspect to their workplace. However, right now the Japanese are having a major population crisis. Their birth rate is one of the lowest in the world, and estimations say that Japan's national population could be 1/3 of what it is right now in 70 years or so. That's a scary prospect and doesn't bode well for economic projections.
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Old 01-28-2009, 08:35 AM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,188 posts, read 30,256,020 times
Reputation: 5131
Remember - the topic is about Home Depot laying folks off....

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