Metro Atlanta Publix to have signs in Spanish. Debate... (Norcross: elementary schools, to live in)

[ready2move]

Originally Posted by Atlantasfinest

I was just in Miami this weekend and It was very irritating to be spoken to in Spanish at the CVS and other stores. As soon as I started speaking english the attendant froze up and had to struggle to gather her english words like she didn't even want to try. It made me feel like I was in the wrong for speaking English at a CVS in my own country! I was asking the lady for help with developing some film and as soon as she heard me speak english her whole attitude changed. South Florida is nice to visit but I wouldn't live there unless I knew some conversational spanish.

Awe, you mean YOU don't speak Spanish? I know when I was in a Macy's and the sales associate starting speaking to me in spanish, I was appalled. So much that I went upstairs to speak to the store manager and guess what? He was spanish as well

[gt6974a]

While I don't like it, it's bound to happen. Eventually, we will all be speaking Spanish, well maybe not us, but the next generation. Hispanics are taking over, plain and simple. Whether they're legal or not it doesn't even matter at this point b/c their kids will be legal.

"Yeah they do the jobs Americans won't" debate, well, their kids won't. They'll be competing for the fewer good jobs that aren't shipped to Inida.

And if you don't like it, you're a labeled as a racist.

And so everyone doesn't think I'm talking out of my rear,

My step-brother (white) is married to a green-card Mexican who previously had her three kids here in the U.S. She used to work at a chicken packaging plant in Texas before they moved to Georgia. Her ex-husband was not legal and deported back to Mexico. Her three kids were born here and now in school in Paulding County and seem to be doing well.

The speak predominately Spanish (even him or wasn't fluent before) in their household and even when they come to visit (which I think is rude and have explained several times).

[billl]

Originally Posted by gt6974a

Eventually, we will all be speaking Spanish, well maybe not us, but the next generation.

And in most cases the next generation hispanics will be speaking English (in addition to Spanish). How horrible would it be for the next generation on both sides to actually be bi-lingual?

In Europe if you travel a few hundred miles in any direction then the local language changes. Most Europeans know at least two languages, and many of them know three, just so they can function in every day life. And many of them think our education is lacking because we only know one language.

And if you are distressed by the growth of the Spanish language in this country, what will you think when Mandarin starts taking hold?

The world is shrinking. Cultures are bumping in to each other, and languages are part of those cultures. Wake up and deal with it!

Bill

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Then you have IKEA, whose signs are in English, Spanish and Swedish. I rather like the idea of shopping and brushing up on my Swedish at the same time.

I give IKEA a pass, simply because they're based in Sweden. It's (to us) a "foreign" store, so it only adds to the feel of it to see it there. Likewise, a store that opens a location here that's based in any other country - you would almost expect to see their native-language products/signs in those types of places. Publix however, is U.S. based.

Originally Posted by billl

How horrible would it be for the next generation on both sides to actually be bi-lingual?

In Europe if you travel a few hundred miles in any direction then the local language changes. Most Europeans know at least two languages, and many of them know three, just so they can function in every day life. And many of them think our education is lacking because we only know one language.

In some European countries, you don't even have to travel hundreds of miles before you enter other language areas. It would be like driving from Atlanta to L.A. and passing through 8 different language areas along the way, here. Still, while we don't have an "official" language in the U.S., our citizens are raised speaking English (well, until recently at least), and it should be stressed that this is the FIRST spoken language here.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with many Europeans - our educational system regarding required foreign language courses is indeed lacking (as are other courses). Personally yes, I agree, that we should learn at least one other language, and those classes should begin as soon as we enter school. If not for personal growth, but for business as well, as you'd hope your child would one day enter a lucrative business which might indeed require being bi or tri lingual.

I'm not really either here nor there regarding the Publix debate. Their signs are "English first" (in larger type) and underneath them smaller Spanish translations. I can live with that, though I do agree that it doesn't exactly "encourage" Spanish speakers to learn OUR language. There are though, whole areas the NE area of Atlanta where you will see business signs in various languages with NO English translations. That, I am completely opposed to from both a social and safety (police/fire) standpoint, and I think that any foreign-catering business should be required to have an English first/other language second signage policy. Just my opinion.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by billl

And in most cases the next generation hispanics will be speaking English (in addition to Spanish). How horrible would it be for the next generation on both sides to actually be bi-lingual?

In Europe if you travel a few hundred miles in any direction then the local language changes. Most Europeans know at least two languages, and many of them know three, just so they can function in every day life. And many of them think our education is lacking because we only know one language.

And if you are distressed by the growth of the Spanish language in this country, what will you think when Mandarin starts taking hold?

The world is shrinking. Cultures are bumping in to each other, and languages are part of those cultures. Wake up and deal with it!

Bill

You're absolutely right, but you're missing the other side of the argument, even though you acknowledge it in your own statements.

You say that people in Europe have to know two or three languages if they want to "function in everyday life", and I think that's all anyone here is asking for- if you decide to come to the US, you should learn enough English to be able to "function in everyday life" without people/places having to change to accomodate you. I doubt very highly that people in Germany expect to be spoken to in German when/if they travel to France, so they learn enough French to get by. The French products in stores aren't expected to have German labels to accomodate visitors. By contrast, we're far too accomodating here, by just saying "OK, we'll add Spanish signage, and Spanish-speaking employees, since people are too lazy to learn English when they come here."

I don't see Koreans, Vietnamese, etc., expecting such things.....

[RoslynHolcomb]

The Wal-Mart on Chamblee-Dunwoody already has signage in Spanish, doesn't faze me. It's what I call an 'international' Wal-Mart. I like it because I can get ingredients there that I can't get anywhere else, and their produce department is exceptional.

I assume when I see businesses with no English translation (ie Buford Highway) that they're not interested in my business. Personally, I'm okay with that, though a vietnamese friend directed us to a vietnamese restaurant that had no signage in English. She told my husband how to order phonetically and it was delish!

[billl]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

You say that people in Europe have to know two or three languages if they want to "function in everyday life", and I think that's all anyone here is asking for- if you decide to come to the US, you should learn enough English to be able to "function in everyday life" without people/places having to change to accomodate you.... By contrast, we're far too accomodating here, by just saying "OK, we'll add Spanish signage, and Spanish-speaking employees, since people are too lazy to learn English when they come here."

First off, businesses (in this case Publix) are voluntarily choosing to use bi-lingual signage. They are not being forced to (as you imply with the phrase "having to"). They have made a business decision to cater to their customers. I see nothing wrong with that.

Second, I completely get what you are saying about the need for visitors or immigrants to learn English in order to function in every day life. And I agree completely. Just like when we go to Germany or France (or Mexico) we should at least make an effort to speak a few basic phrases in the country's language. It's considered polite. I'm not sure I agree with the sentiment that we the citizens of the US should force visitors to learn English by refusing to post bi-lingual signage.

Third, the statement "people are too lazy to learn English when they come here" sounds like it was spoken by someone who has never tried to learn another language. I have tried to learn Spanish. It is terribly overwhelming, especially at the beginning. Learning a new language, especially English (which is one of the harder languages to learn), is HARD. Not knowing it isn't a sign of laziness, but just a result of the simple fact that language is extremly complicated.

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

I don't see Koreans, Vietnamese, etc., expecting such things.....

I've been to Seoul and they use mixed signage, Hangul and English.

Bill

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by billl

Third, the statement "people are too lazy to learn English when they come here" sounds like it was spoken by someone who has never tried to learn another language. I have tried to learn Spanish. It is terribly overwhelming, especially at the beginning. Learning a new language, especially English (which is one of the harder languages to learn), is HARD. Not knowing it isn't a sign of laziness, but just a result of the simple fact that language is extremly complicated.

I fully agree that it's overwhelming to try and learn a new language- especially if you want to become fluent in it- I've learned enough Spanish to operate in my career in the construction industry, and it hasn't been easy. That said, I would never move to a foreign country without doing whatever it takes to learn the language that is spoken there- even if it was the most difficult language out there.

What bothers me isn't the folks who try to learn and end up with broken English- as least they're trying, and I'm not expecting them to speak as well as someone who has been here for years and grew up learning English (hell, there's plenty of people who grew up here who butcher the language....). The ones that get on my nerves are the people who come here, want to make money, use the system, etc., but when you ask them a simple question, they give you that dumbass stare because they can't understand anything you just said- those folks aren't even trying, and it is because they don't care- otherwise they'd try to learn the language.

[beachdiver]

I have no problem with a company or a privately-owned business having signs in another language besides English. What I DO object to, is if (when) the federal government mandates it. Last time I checked, there's no provision for "language police" or a "sign czar" in our Constitution!

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I assume when I see businesses with no English translation (ie Buford Highway) that they're not interested in my business. Personally, I'm okay with that,

While it doesn't apply to the Publix debate, I'll bet folks would care about it if they were in the restaurant and a fire broke out or a burglary was taking place, and the police and/or fire departments took longer than normal to find the place because the signs are in a foreign language (and may times their street numbers are clearly visible).

Again, in Publix case, they'll be bilingual signs so the safety aspect won't be an issue here.