Will Atlanta ever become an Urban Jungle? (Washington, Cleveland: home, neighborhoods)

[amd1588]

Atlanta's core is fine the way it is. All we need now is more infill, and that will do the trick.

Chicago has an excellent grid, but I HATE walking around that city. I don't know what it is, but I feel like the "El" is confusing, and the stops are not properly aligned with the streets like New York's comprehensive system.

At least downtown the MARTA follows Peachtree straight up, pretty much.

We have to remember, part of the reason those cities feel that way is because their Historic cores were that large prior to the Car. Atlanta also has a historic core, that people seem to forget about. Fairlie Poplar is GOOD enough for me. We can't expect Atlanta's historic core to be as large as Chicago, considering Chicago was already at a Million strong at the turn of the century. Come on now !

I love Atlanta's set up because there's so much potential for much more density. I think when the Five Points problem is solved, the sky will be the limit for downtown! I also see great potential in the Vine City area, it is so strategically located. It is also such a historic community, but the drugs and crime seems to keep development slow in that area. I think if the city was really ambitious about densifying it would do it, but it seems like they are going about it slow.

Consider this though, 20 years ago today, downtown would have been filled with some of the most notorious projects anywhere. Capitol Homes to greet you at the State Capitol. McDaniel-Glen to greet you on the way to Turner Field. The Legendary Techwood Homes to greet you at the entrance to Georgia Tech, the Infamous Grady Homes to greet you at King Memorial Station. "Little Vietnam" East Lake Meadows at Atlanta's PGA Golf Course. University Homes, Eagan Homes, and Harris Homes to frighten the Students at Atlanta University Center.

The city has come a long way. We still need to work on the downtown homeless problem, but I see the progress as interesting. I think the only thing regretful is the death of a community feel that use to be in the Old Fourth Ward. But once crack and Heroine ravaged the Black community, I use to be scared to go and see my grandmother. Now however, she even love the improvements in the area. She can walk to the store, laundry, etc, without fears of being shot by a stray bullet on a regular basis. Or held up for her purse, like she use to have to deal with.

Downtown is great as an Urban Oasis now. Going to GSU, I love getting to see Atlanta's classic Skyscrapers in the core. Walking down Marietta Street, Poplar and Broad is awesome. Even if its only a few blocks, I think its nice for Atlanta. All we need to do now is expand on that. I think GSU's dorms and the new development on Auburn will help to revitalize and bring more foot traffic to the Sweet Auburn district.

It seems "gentrification" here in Atlanta hasn't been as controversial as it has been in other cities like New York and Washington DC. I suppose that is because most of these areas likely retain a great Black population anyway. Or the fact that there are so many here that can afford to move in the neighborhoods if they wanted to, but choose not.

Anyway, I hope Atlanta does become dense and walkable from Vine City station to Peachtree Center(it already is) but it will be great when there's some continuity on the streets like corner stores, etc. But I don't hope for Atlanta to become a complete urban "jungle" like New York either. Only if we can do it as flawlessly as Manhattan!

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by wxjay

The "several" metro stations is nowhere near enough for the distance they span. As is much of Atlanta, they are too spread out and not enough connection between areas to make them useful to grow and densify this city.

Secondly, the walkability of Midtown is decent but just doesn't cut it. The only area that is walkable is Peachtree St. and Piedmont area. And with a desolate downtown (and I do mean that - it's a ghost town), I cannot in any way consider Atlanta pedestrian friendly. It is car friendly and very friendly to drive into and drive out of. But it doesn't match to any other city of its magnitude like Chicago, San Francsico, Boston, New York, or even smaller cities like Providence (where I grew up). And this is not my impression alone. Friends that come to visit from Boston metro and Chicago are SHOCKED at the lack of pedestrian-friendly streets and activities, even on Peachtree St.

Some people are too lazy to walk the areas between MARTA stations. They aren't that far apart, and they easily work for me and thousands of other Atlanta residents. Even in NYC, the subway doesn't drop you off at the front door of your destination. That's why you see people walking around the city!

I get so tired of hearing people say Downtown is "desolate". There is MUCH pedestrian traffic Downtown, and anyone who says different just isn't being realistic or doesn't really have current first hand knowledge of the area. There are plenty of sidewalks and it's a very friendly walking environment in my book - as friendly as any downtown I've ever visited.

Are you not familiar with the Historic Midtown neighborhood? It's VERY walkable - and people are walking around the entire area constantly. 10th, 9th, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, and 3rd Streets and the streets that cross them - Argonne, Penn, Myrtle, Charles Allen, Monroe, Piedmont, Juniper....I'm not sure what is difficult to you about walking in this type of neighborhood. It's made for walking. Even the Cypress/11th/12th/14th Street and the Tech Square/North Ave./ areas near Georgia Tech are busy and walkable. And all are well-served by MARTA stations.

[atlantaATL]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

Some people are too lazy to walk the areas between MARTA stations. They aren't that far apart, and they easily work for me and thousands of other Atlanta residents. Even in NYC, the subway doesn't drop you off at the front door of your destination. That's why you see people walking around the city!

I get so tired of hearing people say Downtown is "desolate". There is MUCH pedestrian traffic Downtown, and anyone who says different just isn't being realistic or doesn't really have current first hand knowledge of the area. There are plenty of sidewalks and it's a very friendly walking environment in my book - as friendly as any downtown I've ever visited.

Are you not familiar with the Historic Midtown neighborhood? It's VERY walkable - and people are walking around the entire area constantly. 10th, 9th, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, and 3rd Streets and the streets that cross them - Argonne, Penn, Myrtle, Charles Allen, Monroe, Piedmont, Juniper....I'm not sure what is difficult to you about walking in this type of neighborhood. It's made for walking. Even the Cypress/11th/12th/14th Street and the Tech Square/North Ave./ areas near Georgia Tech are busy and walkable. And all are well-served by MARTA stations.

You said it they dont wanna get out of there cars and walk But i see what you are talking about i walk those streets all the time and the stations are not far apart. I guess because you dont see thousands of people walking shopping etc is not walkable. I remember one post a lady said the walk from Westin Hotel in buckhead to Phipps Plaza was a long walk I told her if you was in NYC 42nd st to 34st is longer than that walk. I dont get it

[bizchick86]

I'm pretty sure a lot of people move to Atlanta because it is NOT the urban jungle. I've been living in New York, and I totally miss the fact that back home I could look up in the sky and actually see it and not some delapidated building.

[Psykomonkee]

Originally Posted by KeyserSoze

Lol.

Why does everyone have to stop what they're doing, and bend to the will of some transplants? Why can't the transplants adapt to the area for a change?

Well, I'll begin by saying I am no transplant. I thought I said that before. Don't be mistaken. I probably love Atlanta more than you ever have. BUT, I am progressive. It is exactly this sentiment of "nothing's wrong... Waa waaa waaa... Why do we have to change... waa waa waa..." is why my city that I have loved for so long is lagging behind. At some point you have to wake up and face the fact that (yes although this is part of what makes Atlanta, Atlanta) there are MANY MANY MANY improvements to the city that need to be made.

Now, DeaconJ. I can see your point. There is (somewhat of) a well planned grid in the city's center. And yes, what we need to do now is fill it in. The point is to STOP the anti-progressive whinning about being tired of people coming to the city and complaining and just do something about it. Not necessarily bending to the transplants... That is how YOU feel. Because YOU don't feel anything is wrong does not, and I repeat DOES NOT speak for the rest of the citizens. I for one know many, born and bred that would LOVE to feel that urban core that they feel other places. Also, having an urban CORE does not take away from what makes Atlanta, Atlanta at all. If empty parking lots, vacant buildings, traffic and lack of pedestrian friendly streets are what makes Atlanta, Atlanta then buddy, there is something seriously wrong with that. That is NOT the focus of a growing city.

I have lived many places. Atlanta, Columbia, SC, Pensacola, FL, Los Angeles, San Diego, Palo Alto, CA, Brooklyn, Italy, and Washington DC. One thing I've found is that anyone who has visited Atlanta or lived there can't understand why things happen so slow there. This Beltline project is taking entirely too long being that the majority of tracks and path already exist. Marta not expanding into Gwinnett and Cobb is a crime. And Marta has NO excuse for still not filling in the urban center with more service. If they couldn't expand into the other counties like they wanted, then they should have taken that money they planned to use for that purpose and figure out how to lay more tracks in the center of the city so that Marta could actually get people exactly to where they are going (like Emory, Zoo Atlanta, Cumberland Mall area, etc...) But it is that anti-progressive mentality of "stop complaining about my home you yankees, waa waa waa... nothing's wrong..." that causes things to either take forever to happen or not happen at all. Same reason people vote to keep Marta out of their county (even though traffic is so bad, you'd sware it was the highway to hell.)

Furthermore, does anyone realize that the whole Beltline talks started 10 YEARS AGO now after that kid at GA Tech, Ryan Gravel wrote his thesis about back in 1999. Years later in 2003-04 in Prince George's County, Maryland, there was a proposal for an entire entertainment district along the Potomac River in Fort Washington, MD. Well, that district opened last year (National Harbor), and the Beltline project is still holding MEETINGS. I do realize that the magnitude of the Beltline is much greater and there is a lot more voting on taxes and getting approvals and such that needs to take place, BUT it's been a Decade and they are still meeting about it...

-The Tren Urbano in San Juan took 15 years from proposal and studies to opening day. Heavy Rail (Subway)
-RTA in Cleveland. 13 years from proposal to operation of 3 lines, 18 stations and 19 miles of track.
-DC Metro. 8 years from proposal to operation of 5 lines, nearly 80 stations and nearly 100 miles of track from scratch. Heavy Rail (Subway).
-LA Metro. Less than 10 years saw service return to LA for both light rail and subway.

Stop complaining about the transplants complaining and realize that they are here and they are here to stay, which makes them Atlantans to. Also, some of them only complain because they have seen better planning and convenience elsewhere. To get annoyed and act like Atlanta can't take a lesson to learn from somewhere else that made it work already is.... (do I need to say?) Open your mind and realize that Atlanta is NOT the same place (with millions LESS people) that you knew back in 1988. It is big, but the structure of the city is growing well behind it's population. Time to grow up.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Psykomonkee

Well, I'll begin by saying I am no transplant. I thought I said that before. Don't be mistaken. I probably love Atlanta more than you ever have. BUT, I am progressive. It is exactly this sentiment of "nothing's wrong... Waa waaa waaa... Why do we have to change... waa waa waa..." is why my city that I have loved for so long is lagging behind. At some point you have to wake up and face the fact that (yes although this is part of what makes Atlanta, Atlanta) there are MANY MANY MANY improvements to the city that need to be made.

Now, DeaconJ. I can see your point. There is (somewhat of) a well planned grid in the city's center. And yes, what we need to do now is fill it in. The point is to STOP the anti-progressive whinning about being tired of people coming to the city and complaining and just do something about it. Not necessarily bending to the transplants... That is how YOU feel. Because YOU don't feel anything is wrong does not, and I repeat DOES NOT speak for the rest of the citizens. I for one know many, born and bred that would LOVE to feel that urban core that they feel other places. Also, having an urban CORE does not take away from what makes Atlanta, Atlanta at all. If empty parking lots, vacant buildings, traffic and lack of pedestrian friendly streets are what makes Atlanta, Atlanta then buddy, there is something seriously wrong with that. That is NOT the focus of a growing city.

I have lived many places. Atlanta, Columbia, SC, Pensacola, FL, Los Angeles, San Diego, Palo Alto, CA, Brooklyn, Italy, and Washington DC. One thing I've found is that anyone who has visited Atlanta or lived there can't understand why things happen so slow there. This Beltline project is taking entirely too long being that the majority of tracks and path already exist. Marta not expanding into Gwinnett and Cobb is a crime. And Marta has NO excuse for still not filling in the urban center with more service. If they couldn't expand into the other counties like they wanted, then they should have taken that money they planned to use for that purpose and figure out how to lay more tracks in the center of the city so that Marta could actually get people exactly to where they are going (like Emory, Zoo Atlanta, Cumberland Mall area, etc...) But it is that anti-progressive mentality of "stop complaining about my home you yankees, waa waa waa... nothing's wrong..." that causes things to either take forever to happen or not happen at all. Same reason people vote to keep Marta out of their county (even though traffic is so bad, you'd sware it was the highway to hell.)

Furthermore, does anyone realize that the whole Beltline talks started 10 YEARS AGO now after that kid at GA Tech, Ryan Gravel wrote his thesis about back in 1999. Years later in 2003-04 in Prince George's County, Maryland, there was a proposal for an entire entertainment district along the Potomac River in Fort Washington, MD. Well, that district opened last year (National Harbor), and the Beltline project is still holding MEETINGS. I do realize that the magnitude of the Beltline is much greater and there is a lot more voting on taxes and getting approvals and such that needs to take place, BUT it's been a Decade and they are still meeting about it...

-The Tren Urbano in San Juan took 15 years from proposal and studies to opening day. Heavy Rail (Subway)
-RTA in Cleveland. 13 years from proposal to operation of 3 lines, 18 stations and 19 miles of track.
-DC Metro. 8 years from proposal to operation of 5 lines, nearly 80 stations and nearly 100 miles of track from scratch. Heavy Rail (Subway).
-LA Metro. Less than 10 years saw service return to LA for both light rail and subway.

Stop complaining about the transplants complaining and realize that they are here and they are here to stay, which makes them Atlantans to. Also, some of them only complain because they have seen better planning and convenience elsewhere. To get annoyed and act like Atlanta can't take a lesson to learn from somewhere else that made it work already is.... (do I need to say?) Open your mind and realize that Atlanta is NOT the same place (with millions LESS people) that you knew back in 1988. It is big, but the structure of the city is growing well behind it's population. Time to grow up.

You make so many valid points...but the planning and implementation problem here in Atlanta, etc...

Very good post. I'm a native Atlantan...and it's come to where whenever I hear anything progressive/innovative/original "planned" for Atlanta, I truly do not believe it's going to happen. I hope that it will...but...

[KeyserSoze]

Originally Posted by Psykomonkee

Well, I'll begin by saying I am no transplant. I thought I said that before. Don't be mistaken. I probably love Atlanta more than you ever have. BUT, I am progressive. It is exactly this sentiment of "nothing's wrong... Waa waaa waaa... Why do we have to change... waa waa waa..." is why my city that I have loved for so long is lagging behind. At some point you have to wake up and face the fact that (yes although this is part of what makes Atlanta, Atlanta) there are MANY MANY MANY improvements to the city that need to be made.

Now, DeaconJ. I can see your point. There is (somewhat of) a well planned grid in the city's center. And yes, what we need to do now is fill it in. The point is to STOP the anti-progressive whinning about being tired of people coming to the city and complaining and just do something about it. Not necessarily bending to the transplants... That is how YOU feel. Because YOU don't feel anything is wrong does not, and I repeat DOES NOT speak for the rest of the citizens. I for one know many, born and bred that would LOVE to feel that urban core that they feel other places. Also, having an urban CORE does not take away from what makes Atlanta, Atlanta at all. If empty parking lots, vacant buildings, traffic and lack of pedestrian friendly streets are what makes Atlanta, Atlanta then buddy, there is something seriously wrong with that. That is NOT the focus of a growing city.

I have lived many places. Atlanta, Columbia, SC, Pensacola, FL, Los Angeles, San Diego, Palo Alto, CA, Brooklyn, Italy, and Washington DC. One thing I've found is that anyone who has visited Atlanta or lived there can't understand why things happen so slow there. This Beltline project is taking entirely too long being that the majority of tracks and path already exist. Marta not expanding into Gwinnett and Cobb is a crime. And Marta has NO excuse for still not filling in the urban center with more service. If they couldn't expand into the other counties like they wanted, then they should have taken that money they planned to use for that purpose and figure out how to lay more tracks in the center of the city so that Marta could actually get people exactly to where they are going (like Emory, Zoo Atlanta, Cumberland Mall area, etc...) But it is that anti-progressive mentality of "stop complaining about my home you yankees, waa waa waa... nothing's wrong..." that causes things to either take forever to happen or not happen at all. Same reason people vote to keep Marta out of their county (even though traffic is so bad, you'd sware it was the highway to hell.)

Furthermore, does anyone realize that the whole Beltline talks started 10 YEARS AGO now after that kid at GA Tech, Ryan Gravel wrote his thesis about back in 1999. Years later in 2003-04 in Prince George's County, Maryland, there was a proposal for an entire entertainment district along the Potomac River in Fort Washington, MD. Well, that district opened last year (National Harbor), and the Beltline project is still holding MEETINGS. I do realize that the magnitude of the Beltline is much greater and there is a lot more voting on taxes and getting approvals and such that needs to take place, BUT it's been a Decade and they are still meeting about it...

-The Tren Urbano in San Juan took 15 years from proposal and studies to opening day. Heavy Rail (Subway)
-RTA in Cleveland. 13 years from proposal to operation of 3 lines, 18 stations and 19 miles of track.
-DC Metro. 8 years from proposal to operation of 5 lines, nearly 80 stations and nearly 100 miles of track from scratch. Heavy Rail (Subway).
-LA Metro. Less than 10 years saw service return to LA for both light rail and subway.

Stop complaining about the transplants complaining and realize that they are here and they are here to stay, which makes them Atlantans to. Also, some of them only complain because they have seen better planning and convenience elsewhere. To get annoyed and act like Atlanta can't take a lesson to learn from somewhere else that made it work already is.... (do I need to say?) Open your mind and realize that Atlanta is NOT the same place (with millions LESS people) that you knew back in 1988. It is big, but the structure of the city is growing well behind it's population. Time to grow up.

Way to put words in my mouth there. So you've lived in a few places, saw what they have to offer, and you wanna bring that to the ATL. As a city, Atlanta has plenty to work with. But there's still issues to be addressed, plenty of issues that come before campaigning for Atlanta to becoming a faux-European city. And just how are transplants becoming Atlantans when they by and large refuse to assimilate into the local culture? Culture shock is one thing, refusing to become a part of it when you're gonna live there is rude and arrogant. By effect that has changed Atlanta's flavor, for better or worse. You proclaiming to be the P-word, "progressive", isn't gonna make me shiver in submission and inferiority, and it doesn't put you on any higher pedestal than what you just labeled me as in your droning diatribe, despite knowing next to nothing about me.

So in short, lack of "smart" growth x transplants who refuse to become Georgians, but rather latch on to where they originally hailed from(10) = chaos. Or Atlanta. Or a "progressive" city. Still the same answer.

Practice what you preach. Then come back and rant to the unwashed masses.

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by Psykomonkee

Well, I'll begin by saying I am no transplant. I thought I said that before. Don't be mistaken. I probably love Atlanta more than you ever have. BUT, I am progressive. It is exactly this sentiment of "nothing's wrong... Waa waaa waaa... Why do we have to change... waa waa waa..." is why my city that I have loved for so long is lagging behind. At some point you have to wake up and face the fact that (yes although this is part of what makes Atlanta, Atlanta) there are MANY MANY MANY improvements to the city that need to be made.

Now, DeaconJ. I can see your point. There is (somewhat of) a well planned grid in the city's center. And yes, what we need to do now is fill it in. The point is to STOP the anti-progressive whinning about being tired of people coming to the city and complaining and just do something about it. Not necessarily bending to the transplants... That is how YOU feel. Because YOU don't feel anything is wrong does not, and I repeat DOES NOT speak for the rest of the citizens. I for one know many, born and bred that would LOVE to feel that urban core that they feel other places. Also, having an urban CORE does not take away from what makes Atlanta, Atlanta at all. If empty parking lots, vacant buildings, traffic and lack of pedestrian friendly streets are what makes Atlanta, Atlanta then buddy, there is something seriously wrong with that. That is NOT the focus of a growing city.

I have lived many places. Atlanta, Columbia, SC, Pensacola, FL, Los Angeles, San Diego, Palo Alto, CA, Brooklyn, Italy, and Washington DC. One thing I've found is that anyone who has visited Atlanta or lived there can't understand why things happen so slow there. This Beltline project is taking entirely too long being that the majority of tracks and path already exist. Marta not expanding into Gwinnett and Cobb is a crime. And Marta has NO excuse for still not filling in the urban center with more service. If they couldn't expand into the other counties like they wanted, then they should have taken that money they planned to use for that purpose and figure out how to lay more tracks in the center of the city so that Marta could actually get people exactly to where they are going (like Emory, Zoo Atlanta, Cumberland Mall area, etc...) But it is that anti-progressive mentality of "stop complaining about my home you yankees, waa waa waa... nothing's wrong..." that causes things to either take forever to happen or not happen at all. Same reason people vote to keep Marta out of their county (even though traffic is so bad, you'd sware it was the highway to hell.)

Furthermore, does anyone realize that the whole Beltline talks started 10 YEARS AGO now after that kid at GA Tech, Ryan Gravel wrote his thesis about back in 1999. Years later in 2003-04 in Prince George's County, Maryland, there was a proposal for an entire entertainment district along the Potomac River in Fort Washington, MD. Well, that district opened last year (National Harbor), and the Beltline project is still holding MEETINGS. I do realize that the magnitude of the Beltline is much greater and there is a lot more voting on taxes and getting approvals and such that needs to take place, BUT it's been a Decade and they are still meeting about it...

-The Tren Urbano in San Juan took 15 years from proposal and studies to opening day. Heavy Rail (Subway)
-RTA in Cleveland. 13 years from proposal to operation of 3 lines, 18 stations and 19 miles of track.
-DC Metro. 8 years from proposal to operation of 5 lines, nearly 80 stations and nearly 100 miles of track from scratch. Heavy Rail (Subway).
-LA Metro. Less than 10 years saw service return to LA for both light rail and subway.

Stop complaining about the transplants complaining and realize that they are here and they are here to stay, which makes them Atlantans to. Also, some of them only complain because they have seen better planning and convenience elsewhere. To get annoyed and act like Atlanta can't take a lesson to learn from somewhere else that made it work already is.... (do I need to say?) Open your mind and realize that Atlanta is NOT the same place (with millions LESS people) that you knew back in 1988. It is big, but the structure of the city is growing well behind it's population. Time to grow up.

Since you addressed me, it sounded as though you were also advising me on the subject of transplants as well. I will assume you weren't, since I'm pretty sure I didn't even mention that word. I have absolutely nothing against transplants - I was one a few years ago myself. We're really no different than anyone else.

He wrote his thesis in 1999 - that isn't when Beltline planning began. The idea was only presented to the public and promoted to investors in 2004. If you've been keeping up with the Beltline plans at all, you would know the issues that have come up - there have been several. It isn't as easy as simply laying tracks and VOILA - light rail. It takes years of planning and implementation for something of this magnitude to become reality, and we are still in the initial planning years of it...not to mention the lawsuit involving Wayne Mason that held up progress and cost lots of extra money...and the unfortunate economic issues that have severely hurt funding and hurt the city itself. Things like this happen, and not only in Atlanta. Other cities are hurting finiancially too. Charlotte is having major problems with the light rail plans there because of funding and public opposition...and by the way, they started planning that little bitty system in the mid-80s, and it just opened in 2007. It isn't as easy as it looks sometimes. And I feel very sure that the systems you mentioned in those cities took much longer than 8-10 years from initial planning to being ready for public use.

Planning for National Harbor began prior to 2003. Besides, there is a HUGE difference in a "mall-like" project by one developer and a government funded transportation project that runs through 30 different neighborhoods. Atlantic Station would be a much better comparison to National Harbor...and I believe Atlantic Station got up and running pretty quickly.

[back2dc]

I think you hit the nail on the head with your post. People in Atlanta are very defensive when it's pointed out that it's not quite the ideal city as many make it out to be.

That attitude is what's going to keep Atlanta from ever achieving the world-class status and the respect it desires.

Atlanta was a progressive city in the 80s. The sprawling development, low-taxes, Reagan-era politics meshed really well with all the corporations setting up offices in the Southeast.

But 2 decades later, we live in a much more complex global economy. Trickle-down economics and tax cuts have hurt the middle and working classes of this country. Rising energy costs mean that sprawl development is an inefficient, traffic-inducing and energy-wasting approach to development.

Atlanta is in many ways a victim of its own success in the 80s. What worked then is definitely not going to work now.

Originally Posted by Psykomonkee

Well, I'll begin by saying I am no transplant. I thought I said that before. Don't be mistaken. I probably love Atlanta more than you ever have. BUT, I am progressive. It is exactly this sentiment of "nothing's wrong... Waa waaa waaa... Why do we have to change... waa waa waa..." is why my city that I have loved for so long is lagging behind. At some point you have to wake up and face the fact that (yes although this is part of what makes Atlanta, Atlanta) there are MANY MANY MANY improvements to the city that need to be made.

Now, DeaconJ. I can see your point. There is (somewhat of) a well planned grid in the city's center. And yes, what we need to do now is fill it in. The point is to STOP the anti-progressive whinning about being tired of people coming to the city and complaining and just do something about it. Not necessarily bending to the transplants... That is how YOU feel. Because YOU don't feel anything is wrong does not, and I repeat DOES NOT speak for the rest of the citizens. I for one know many, born and bred that would LOVE to feel that urban core that they feel other places. Also, having an urban CORE does not take away from what makes Atlanta, Atlanta at all. If empty parking lots, vacant buildings, traffic and lack of pedestrian friendly streets are what makes Atlanta, Atlanta then buddy, there is something seriously wrong with that. That is NOT the focus of a growing city.

I have lived many places. Atlanta, Columbia, SC, Pensacola, FL, Los Angeles, San Diego, Palo Alto, CA, Brooklyn, Italy, and Washington DC. One thing I've found is that anyone who has visited Atlanta or lived there can't understand why things happen so slow there. This Beltline project is taking entirely too long being that the majority of tracks and path already exist. Marta not expanding into Gwinnett and Cobb is a crime. And Marta has NO excuse for still not filling in the urban center with more service. If they couldn't expand into the other counties like they wanted, then they should have taken that money they planned to use for that purpose and figure out how to lay more tracks in the center of the city so that Marta could actually get people exactly to where they are going (like Emory, Zoo Atlanta, Cumberland Mall area, etc...) But it is that anti-progressive mentality of "stop complaining about my home you yankees, waa waa waa... nothing's wrong..." that causes things to either take forever to happen or not happen at all. Same reason people vote to keep Marta out of their county (even though traffic is so bad, you'd sware it was the highway to hell.)

Furthermore, does anyone realize that the whole Beltline talks started 10 YEARS AGO now after that kid at GA Tech, Ryan Gravel wrote his thesis about back in 1999. Years later in 2003-04 in Prince George's County, Maryland, there was a proposal for an entire entertainment district along the Potomac River in Fort Washington, MD. Well, that district opened last year (National Harbor), and the Beltline project is still holding MEETINGS. I do realize that the magnitude of the Beltline is much greater and there is a lot more voting on taxes and getting approvals and such that needs to take place, BUT it's been a Decade and they are still meeting about it...

-The Tren Urbano in San Juan took 15 years from proposal and studies to opening day. Heavy Rail (Subway)
-RTA in Cleveland. 13 years from proposal to operation of 3 lines, 18 stations and 19 miles of track.
-DC Metro. 8 years from proposal to operation of 5 lines, nearly 80 stations and nearly 100 miles of track from scratch. Heavy Rail (Subway).
-LA Metro. Less than 10 years saw service return to LA for both light rail and subway.

Stop complaining about the transplants complaining and realize that they are here and they are here to stay, which makes them Atlantans to. Also, some of them only complain because they have seen better planning and convenience elsewhere. To get annoyed and act like Atlanta can't take a lesson to learn from somewhere else that made it work already is.... (do I need to say?) Open your mind and realize that Atlanta is NOT the same place (with millions LESS people) that you knew back in 1988. It is big, but the structure of the city is growing well behind it's population. Time to grow up.

[DeaconJ]

Other people in Atlanta like to accuse some of us of being "defensive" when it's only being "corrective". There is a big difference and some people should really learn to recognize that difference.

When someone begins complaining about issues that aren't even issues, then it needs to be addressed. That, more than anything else, will detract from the REAL issues and keep the city from fixing the current problems.

According to the latest "global cities" rankings by more than one organization, Atlanta currently has world-class status. I could care less, but the irritating problem is when certain individuals feel a need to announce, with certainty, that Atlanta isn't world-class. I'm not sure on which research your opinion is based, but the research of both GaWC World Cities and Foreign Policy Magazine's Gobal Cities Index is well-documented and published for everyone to reference. It would make you a more credible source if you would publish your research and show everyone how you came to your conclusion.