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Old 03-27-2009, 12:18 AM
 
3,409 posts, read 8,490,965 times
Reputation: 1922

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedudewiththeplan View Post
Here is a link from the Fayette Citizen about a transportation meeting held recently:

Transportation planners hear residents: Keep Fayette rural | The Citizen Online (http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/35813 - broken link)

This is one of the things that gets me about the Atlanta suburbs (well the outer suburbs anyway). Though there were a few in favor of commuter rail and other mass transit options, the majority were against it (my brother who is an urban planning major was at the meeting as part of his research). Many other metro areas of similar size already have or are in the process of building commuter rail networks. The whole "mass transit brings crime" argument is one of the weakest I've heard. Look at places like San Diego and Portland which have public transit networks and very low crime rates. I only hope that in the future, we can get these NIMBY views to change!

So what is does everyone else think of expanding mass transit and commuter rail to the suburbs?
Yeap, I think there should have been commuter rail 20 years ago. ATL is behind in that department, and is in no way trying to be like Japan. San Diego aspires to be more like a Japanese city, like the rest of California. San Diego's low crime rate is another thing that makes it like a Japanese city. Also the argument about mass transit bringing crime is a pathetic excuse. News flash: Metro ATL already has a crime problem. Expanding mass transit could not make it any worse. In fact, if someone were to rob a house and steel a 50-inch TV, do you think they would use a train to get away?
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Old 03-27-2009, 10:42 AM
 
1,301 posts, read 1,854,025 times
Reputation: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
You aren't aware of very many things apparently...realistic ones, anyway. If you continue to remain stuck in your 1975 Atlanta and long for "the good old days" - which incidentally weren't very good for millions of people - you'll always be unhappy with life.
To each their own!
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Old 03-27-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,118,630 times
Reputation: 2162
I wonder why people keeping placing such a high emphasis on "buses bringing minorities" to the rural areas. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there already significant numbers of blacks who lived in rural areas for the longest time anyways?

I mean, there WAS a time when there were NO buses, and people simply WALKED or rode a HORSE. Some of my family are from Waverly Hall, GA and from Roanoke, AL and there are NO BUSES in those areas. I'm just sayin, let's quit actin' like black folks only live in the cities and that's it.
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Old 03-27-2009, 04:25 PM
 
12,928 posts, read 21,014,421 times
Reputation: 4088
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
I wonder why people keeping placing such a high emphasis on "buses bringing minorities" to the rural areas. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there already significant numbers of blacks who lived in rural areas for the longest time anyways?

I mean, there WAS a time when there were NO buses, and people simply WALKED or rode a HORSE. Some of my family are from Waverly Hall, GA and from Roanoke, AL and there are NO BUSES in those areas. I'm just sayin, let's quit actin' like black folks only live in the cities and that's it.

Yes, especially in the South (except the mountain areas). Paulding County already has a significant black population (concentrated in Dallas and other areas) that has been there for decades. The same with Henry, Coweta, Bartow, etc...
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Old 03-27-2009, 06:06 PM
 
Location: new york
305 posts, read 755,347 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl View Post
You would probably be happier in Montana or Wyoming.
i second that!
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Old 03-27-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,147 posts, read 9,223,353 times
Reputation: 9018
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127 View Post
There are several arguments for and against suburban rails. Some of the arguments are valid, others are not.

Valid arguments "for":

1) It takes cars off the roads, reducing the overall volume of cars, and gives drivers an alternative so they can relax and be safer than on those roads.

2) It helps the environment by taking emissions out of the air.

3) It reduces our Country's dependence on foreign oil if the right technologies are used.

4) It gives one car or no-car families an alternative for commuting (which below may also be seen as an "against").

Valid arguments "against":

1) If not planned and budgeted right, costs can exceed need. The right plan, placement, and tax-based sources need to be in place to fund it or it's a waste of money in some areas.

2) Petty crime (by teens - smash and grab quick burglaries) can increase within walking distance of rail stations. Yes, home invasions and large scale burglaries definitely are committed by those with SUVs and getaway cars, but small petty stuff like teen breaking in and grabbing whatever will fit into their pockets, as well as some roaming of vagrants who travel the systems, CAN occur, if the transit police/local police do not keep up on it.

3) The "carless families" issue: Transit helps them get around, but then in more upscale areas, the argument of home values come up if lower income people who can't afford cars move into apartments built in areas near transit. It sounds snubby and stuck-up, but it's still a valid argument (within reason).

4) Management. MARTA is well known for being poor managers and having their share of controversies. If people had a voice as to who ran their local agencies, they are typically more open to it, but if they're told that MARTA will run it, they will almost always vote "no". A couple of recent valid stories about such leery feeling can be found in THIS story, as well as THIS one, but there have been lots like this over the years.
[] There is a finite amount of fuel / energy available.
[] There is a finite amount of surface area.

Based on the Laws of Physics, the rolling resistance of steel wheel on steel rail outperforms rubber tire on pavement. Electrified railways are up to 20 times more efficient in moving passengers and cargo per unit fuel than diesel or gasoline powered vehicles on roadways. A single track has the equivalent peak passenger carrying capacity of a nine lane superhighway. (NYC's 4 track subway system represents the equivalent of a 36 lane superhighway)

The obvious choice is electrified rail transport for the majority of cargo and passenger hauling.

Why are "public" mass transit systems so mismanaged?
[] Ans: Politics.

What's the difference between profitability of the privately owned streetcar companies of the last century (1890-1910) and 2000's?
[] Ans: Taxation and oppressive regulation.

Solution:
Instead of giving taxpayer funds to build rail mass transit, stop taking taxes from rail mass transit.
Give a blanket tax exemption to rail companies and their employees. I strongly suspect that not only investors will flock to the program, but workers will prefer zero taxes.
  • No property taxes on the rail rights of way
  • No income taxes on profits
  • No income taxes on wages
  • No administrative overhead
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Old 03-27-2009, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,732 posts, read 11,780,088 times
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Greg - your insight into the prevailing mood in Paulding County pretty much freaked me out, and made me realize what a bubble I live in here in DeKalb.

Thanks for the reality check - but it makes me sad.
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:11 AM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,190 posts, read 29,601,995 times
Reputation: 5091
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl View Post
Greg - your insight into the prevailing mood in Paulding County pretty much freaked me out, and made me realize what a bubble I live in here in DeKalb.

Thanks for the reality check - but it makes me sad.
John,

I live in West Cobb, not far from the Paulding line. I work in-between the two counties, and many of my customers and coworkers live in Paulding.

Now, it's definitely not politically correct to say this, but, I'm known for "brutal honesty" even if it's not "correct". The fact is, no entire County full of people are the same, but you do sometimes see more of one type of person in one than others. For example, it's safe to say there are more black people in Clayton, than there are in Cobb. There are more Gay people in Fulton than there are in Bartow. More Republicans in East Cobb than there are in South Dekalb, etc.

That being said, you will find more of what you might call "rural, conservative, blue collar, pickup driving, tobacco chewing, deer hunting" type folks in Paulding than you will in any other of the Counties in the immediate metro area of Atlanta. Now, some people see that as a plus. Others do not. If you like American or Old South flags on flag poles in front yards, hunting, church events, etc., then it's for you. If you want to eat in unique non-chain restaurants, go to a theatre production, or, ride a public bus somewhere - then it's definitely not the place for you. It's certainly not all "bad", but it's very VERY different than some other areas.

Will a black person be hunted by the KKK in Paulding? No. Will gays be strung up on poles and impaled? No. Will Democrats be burned at the stake? No. But you may not feel your most comfortable living there if you are in those groups, either. And if you want to propose curb-to-curb bus or rail service to the locals there, well, borrow a bullet proof vest before standing up in front of THAT crowd.

Just my opinion from exposure.
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Old 03-28-2009, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Augusta GA
880 posts, read 2,470,264 times
Reputation: 357
Southern Fayette is kinda like that too (Brooks and areas to the south). Very much country and conservative. I would say it has many similarities to western Paulding county in that regard.
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Sandy Springs, Georgia
256 posts, read 647,458 times
Reputation: 126
Fayette County lol

(Sorry, I had to. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl View Post
My next door neighbor grew up here (she is in her 70's).

She tells me when she was a girl, it was possible to go from Marietta all the way to Stone Mountain using interurbans/streetcars.

Sigh......
It just blows my mind when I hear stuff like this! I know why the streetcar routes were taken down in the first place, but I don't understand why the progressive urbanites who live ITP haven't tried to build a lot of this stuff back. I mean, I just don't understand what people are waiting for. Well, I do now, since there's no money going around right now but in the 10 years before that, we should have put some of this stuff on the ballot (or even better, just start doing it).

Last edited by Sandy Springs Rep.; 03-29-2009 at 04:55 PM..
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