HELP!! Young AA family ISO affordable intown living and good public schools!! (Atlanta: fit in, 2010)

[lastminutemom]

Originally Posted by cautious-mom

Nope, though I hadn't completely ruled it out yet. I know of a handful of AA families living there. Not sure what you mean by "fair number" but it sounds like a good question to ask the school. Of course this is a total side issue since there are few homes available there that fall within the original poster's price range.

I doubt they will tell you. It is a touchy subject.

I don't know what I mean by fair number either but I know numerous DCSS bureaucrats who have or have had children at Oak Grove now and through the years.

Right about the price point as well.

[StPaulEastSider]

Neighborhood Charter School - Grant Park


The NCS effort is grounded in the belief that all children can be successful learners and that parents, guardians, and the local community hold primary responsibility to ensure that all children in their neighborhood school have access to and success in public education. Closely aligned with that philosophy is the belief that a public school should be the meeting place where a socially, racially, and economically diverse area knits its many strands into a single tapestry of community.
Welcome | Neighborhood Charter School

Who does NCS serve?

NCS is a K–5 public elementary school serving approximately 360 students. There is no tuition and no entrance criteria, other than the student living within the NCS attendance zone. The primary attendance zone for NCS encompasses the neighborhoods of Grant Park, Ormewood Park, and North Ormewood Park. If space is available, students living elsewhere within the NPU-W (e.g., Woodland Hills, East Atlanta, Boulevard Height, Benteen, and McDonough/Guice) will be eligible to attend. These in-town neighborhoods reflect diversity in ethnic and racial backgrounds, economic status, and family structure.
Frequently Asked Questions | Neighborhood Charter School

NCS Fact Sheet


Student Enrollment 2007-2008:

337 students were enrolled in the Neighborhood Charter School for its sixth year of operation in the following grade level configuration:

• 4 Kindergarten classes of 15 children;
• 3 classes of 20 children each at grades First through Fifth.

The student body for this year was most diverse:

• 22% of our students were in the free and reduced lunch program.
• 33% of our children live in single parent homes.

The racial makeup of the students was:

• 35% African American,
• 53% Caucasian,
• 10% Multi-racial,
• 2% Hispanic and other

Student Enrollment 2008-2009:

Neighborhood Charter School added two fifth grade classes for the 2007-2008 school year. 96% of the 2007-2008 student body reenrolled for the 2008-2009 school year.

This last quote was from this page:
NCS Fact Sheet | Neighborhood Charter School

IOWA Basic Test Scores are on the same page, and they are very good. The trick, I think, would be to get your child enrolled in this school... I would hate to buy a home in the community specifically for this school, and then not get picked in the lottery. With a 96% retention rate from one year to the next, the possibility of a spot opening up may be slim. I would check with the administration to see how many students from the priority one and priority two attendance zones attend the school, and how many from outside either attendance zone have gained admittance to the most recent K classes.

Houses in Grant Park may be outside your price range, but Ormewood Park may be affordable, but I *THINK* that may be a tier two attendance zone for this school. Don't take my word on it, check it out for yourself.

+++++

Another option I would look into... CLOSELY.... is a brand new charter school in the West End neighborhood... The Kindzei School

Check out the Testimonials section of the WestView Neighborhood Website, I think you will be surprised at the diversity of the families profiles on the neighborhood website. Gentrification of this neighborhood may have stalled for a minute, but should pick up again soon... your mother may like the fact it's a Historical Black Neighborhood.

This area, reaching over and into the Capitol View neighborhood, may be "the next East Atlanta" in five to ten years, probably moreso in ten years....

That is, provided ATL keeps posting high numbers in regards to population growth, provided the overall market starts to make slow, but steady, movement towards recovering, and excluding any major catestrophies... such as an even worse economic crash, or an even more severe drought in the ATL area.... and....

I'm putting my money on the idea certain neighborhoods are poised to be the next areas for major "gentrification" - these are the neighborhoods with the desirable housing stock of craftsman bungalows and similiar "historic" housing. Athough we'll likely never see another surge quite like the real estate bubble which just burst - thankfully!

[StPaulEastSider]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

I doubt they will tell you. It is a touchy subject.

I don't know what I mean by fair number either...

THERE MAY BE A WAY TO DISCERN this information, albeit indirectly...

1) The racial diversity of a public school is in the data which all schools are required to make public...

Check out greatschools [dot] net to quickly track down diversity numbers for the school you are considering... but remember the numbers are "self-reported" numbers.

In Georgia, unlike in Minnesota, schools list "bi-racial" as an option.

I will often find schools with stats such as 99% black and 1% bi-racial in GA. My kids are bi-racial, so I was looking at that number closely.

It took me awhile to realize most of the bi-racial kids are likely self-identifying as black... as do my own kids!

++++

2) Another useful bit of information you can get about public schools at the above listed site, and on the district's own site, if you dig far enough, is the percentage of students receiving free and reduced lunches at any particular school.

As a rough rule of thumb, you want your kids at a school where at least 50% of the students do NOT receive free and reduced lunches.

Why? With a few notable exceptions, you will find the school's test score results directly correspond to the number of students receiving free and reduced lunches. The fewer students on the free and reduced lunch program, the higher the school's test scores.

++++

This is an established fact in the world of education... demonstrated by the fact Federal Title 1 Funding is disbursed to schools based upon the number of students in a particular building who qualify for free and reduced lunches.

KIPP Academies, a national Charter School with three locations in ATL, is one such exception.... their students typically graduate in 8th grade, after 4 middle school years at KIPP Academy, testing in the top 10% of the nation...

But note, the parents of students at KIPP Academy had the initiative, and the desire for their kids' to succeed, to apply for their kids to attend a charter school... this is a self-selecting method of separating the serious-minded parents/students from those who are not being encouraged to apply themselves academically.

PARENTS WHO ARE EDUCATIONALLY-MINDED will go to extreme lengths to get their kids in a decent school... just as the OP is willing to do, she is ready to move, quickly is at all possibly, to get her child into a decent school for the upcoming school year.

++++

In my personal experience, schools with student populations with a high percentage of free and reduced lunches usually spend the school year "teaching to the test" - EXCLUSIVELY teaching to the test.

I yanked my kids out of a school last year because it was exclusively "teaching to the test"... that school was on the verge of receiving sanctions due to failing NCLB for five years in a row. So the district looked the other way while this school deconstructed the district-wide curriculum and purposed to spend an entire school year "teaching to the test"...

That was last year. Guess what? The school posted the most-imporoved NCLB numbers in the district last year... good for them, but I know the truth - the students at that school were NOT given the full breadth of an education offered to students at other schools in the district. Their school year was very narrowly focused... the entire building spent the entire year focused on "teaching to the test" under the threat of the school being forced to close or restructure...

BTW, this was up here in Minnesota - but the same holds true for every American school under the threat of repeated failures to meet NCLB standards.

Rant over.

[lastminutemom]

Originally Posted by StPaulEastSider

+++++

Another option I would look into... CLOSELY.... is a brand new charter school in the West End neighborhood... The Kindzei School

Check out the Testimonials section of the WestView Neighborhood Website, I think you will be surprised at the diversity of the families profiles on the neighborhood website. Gentrification of this neighborhood may have stalled for a minute, but should pick up again soon... your mother may like the fact it's a Historical Black Neighborhood.

This area, reaching over and into the Capitol View neighborhood, may be "the next East Atlanta" in five to ten years, probably moreso in ten years....

That is, provided ATL keeps posting high numbers in regards to population growth, provided the overall market starts to make slow, but steady, movement towards recovering, and excluding any major catestrophies... such as an even worse economic crash, or an even more severe drought in the ATL area.... and....

I'm putting my money on the idea certain neighborhoods are poised to be the next areas for major "gentrification" - these are the neighborhoods with the desirable housing stock of craftsman bungalows and similiar "historic" housing. Athough we'll likely never see another surge quite like the real estate bubble which just burst - thankfully!

Kindzei is not yet approved by the State and will not be opening as a Charter School anytime soon. It was going to be rejected and at the 11th hour the founders pulled their application. They intend to resubmit, but based on GA DOE rules this delays their opening at least another year.

Here is why it was going to be rejected:
https://eboard.eboardsolutions.com/M...ID=9765&S=1262

Charters in GA are wildly inconsistent. Neighborhood Charter is well loved and doing great while Drew Charter struggles. Academy of Lithonia has awful test scores while PATH Academy has some of the highest test scores in DeKalb, though it educates mostly poor children. In the last two months, the Feds dinged the GA Dept of Ed for poor oversight of charters. So, at a minimum, I expect poorly performing charters to lose their charter and poorly prepared charter applications to be rejected.

[AshSilver]

I don't know anything about Georgia, but there is a website I use whenever I consider moving called greatschools.net. You can compare any schools in your state, elementary through high school, and see things like test scores, teacher student ratios, and parent reviews. It has been immensely helpful in helping me chose a home where my daughter goes to an absolutely wonderful school!

[ehoez]

why not a nice, 150k home?

[StPaulEastSider]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

Kindzei is not yet approved by the State and will not be opening as a Charter School anytime soon. It was going to be rejected and at the 11th hour the founders pulled their application. They intend to resubmit, but based on GA DOE rules this delays their opening at least another year.

Here is why it was going to be rejected:
https://eboard.eboardsolutions.com/M...ID=9765&S=1262

Great information... great link to the state board of education... coming from the state where charter schools started, and having been a part of two charter schools in this state, one of which failed due to lack of financial oversight... I find it encouraging the State of Georgia is looking closely at the structure and financial underpinnings of proposed charter schools.

[StPaulEastSider]

Originally Posted by ehoez

why not a nice, 150k home?

Where do you suggest the OP look for a 150k SFH home in an established, gentrified, Intown neighborhood with good public schools and both a middle-class AA and a racially integrated population?

Just askin'...

[TJ26]

LOL at StPaul.

GREAT question. I dont think I had to prepare and research this much when I was applying to college or taking the GRE. Its like a part time, make that full time job.

I want to again THANK YOU ALL for your well thought out answers and discussion on the OP. Trust me, I am taking notes.

If I could wave the magic wand, I would find a n'hood that is:

-racially and economically diverse
-great home that we can grow into, not outgrow when we add more kids in the near future
-great public schools
-oh and affordable (whatever that means in this day and age).

So far, this is what Im actually finding:

-if the home is great (for me this means, newer or renovated craftsman style) and actually in my budget, the n'hood is sketchy, and the local public schools are not doing well

-if the local schools are great, the homes are small, the n'hood is more affluent white and low income AA

-if the homes are large, the nhood is middle class AA and the local schools are decent, it's located way in the woods (my current situation and NOT diverse

Just trying to raise a well rounded child, who appreciates what she has in life but doesnt feel like the poorest (or richest) AA girl in class. Of course, no situation is perfect and I cant protect her from everything.

I know we must compromise at some point. Of course, if I didnt have to think about schools, we wouldnt be having this conversation. So, keep your thoughts coming. Im all ears.

Any thoughts about Old 4th Ward? Anyone heard about the new APS elem school called Spring Park I think?

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by plessthanpointohfive

Now, if you live in East Lake you should be able to find a house zoned for East Lake Elementary, which is a good school, but I don't think it goes to Grady. I think it goes to Crim and I'm not so sure about that high school.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...misinformation! We have to be careful...


The Kirkwood and East Lake neighborhoods are in fact zoned for Grady High (Toomer Elementary and East Lake Elementary).

Crim High no longer exists as a normal high school...it is now an evening/alternative school. Its former zone was divided between Grady High and Maynard Jackson High.

Edgewood neighborhood, for example, (just east of Kirkwood) is zoned for Maynard Jackson High.

Toomer and East Lake both feed into Coan Middle...Coan Middle feeds into Grady and Maynard Jackson...the Toomer/East Lake parts go on to Grady High.

So, to help the OP further...Toomer/East Lake Elementary...good-great! Grady High...great! The weak link is Coan Middle. However, I think as the tide rises at Toomer/East Lake, we will start to see improvement at Coan Middle in the next 5 to 6 years--following the same pattern that Inman Middle, Sutton Middle, and Renfroe Middle followed in the past (improvement at the elementary level in neighborhood schools eventually leading to improvement at the middle school level...and Toomer/East Lake/Coan have an advantage--they already feed into a great high school!)

I hope this helps...and informs! Good Luck!