What is "black culture"? (Atlanta, Douglas: construction, public school, plantation)

[StPaulEastSider]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I have no idea what the Youtube videos were apropos of.

Post #86 was in response to your concerns - the women featured in the YouTube videos I linked to in Post #86 deserve props - they are both amazing young women.

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

there were objections when I stated that in much of America's psyche all the important blacks are men and all important women are white.

Yeah, okay, here we go Roslyn....

I suspect there were objections to that statement, because it is just flat out NOT TRUE ! Many of the MOST IMPORTANT WOMEN in our society are BLACK WOMEN.

- Oprah Winfrey, no one in media can touch her - irregardless of gender or race
- Susan Rice, United States Ambassador to the United Nations
- Condleezza Rice, Former Secretary of State [yeah, I know many black liberals would rather not claim Condleezza ]
- Maya Angelou, one of the most well-known and respected poets in our nation's history - she transcends gender and race
- Michelle Obama, undeniably successful in her own right, the most influential and popular first lady since Jackie O
- Tyra Banks, this woman is hot on Oprah's heels
- Venus and Serena Williams, #1 in Womens Tennis [no one currently playing tennis, black or white, is as well known as the Williams sisters]
-Alice Walker [writer, political activist]
- Gwen Ifill, American journalist, television newscaster and author. Moderator of Presidential Debates. 2009 Peabody Award Winner.

I could also list plenty of black actresses and musicians, but that is almost pointless - because there are so many. To name just one - MIA made Time Magazine's top 100 list this year.

Plenty of black women were also instrumental in our nation's history... Rosa Parks, Ruby Bridges, Harriet Tubman, Sojourner Truth, Shirley Chisolm - to name but a few.

AA women have made history prior to AA men in many areas...


AA women who made history:

+ Hattie Daniel - first AA to win an Oscar [1940, Gone with the Wind, best supporting actress]

+ Bessie Coleman - first AA to earn a pilot's license [1921]

+ Madame C. J. Walker - first AA millionaire

+ Dorothy Dandridge - first AA Oscar-nominated actress/actor [1954, Carmen Jones]

+ Marian Anderson, first AA member of the Metropolitan Opera, 1955

+ First AA Novelist, Harriet Wilson, Our Nig (1859)

+ First AA Poet, Lucy Terry, 1746, "Bar's Fight." It is her only surviving poem.

+ First AA Nobel Prize for Literature Winner, Toni Morrison, 1993

+ First AA Ivy League President, Ruth Simmons, 2001, Brown University

+ First AA Pulitzer Prize winner, Gwendolyn Brooks, 1950 - won the Pulitzer Priae in poetry

+ First AA Published Poet, Phyllis Wheatly, 1773, Poems on Various Subjects, Religious and Moral. Considered the founder of African-American literature.

+ First AA Olympic Medalist - winter games - Debi Thomas, 1988, won the bronze in figure skating.

+ First AA Olympic gold Medalist - winter games - Vonetta Flowers, 2002, bobsled.

+ First AA tennis champion - Althea Gibson - became the first black person to play in and win Wimbledon and the United States national tennis championship. She won both tournaments twice, in 1957 and 1958. In all, Gibson won 56 tournaments, including five Grand Slam singles events. [Arthur Ashe won the U.S. Open in 1968]

Also of note:

The first black billionaire was Robert Johnson, 2001, owner of Black Entertainment Television; far better known by the general public is the first black woman billionaire - Oprah Winfrey, 2003

+++++

I personally can name more black women in U.S. history than I can name white woman... Susan Anthony, Betsy Ross... I'll have to hit google to name more famous WHITE women in history, at least prior to the 20th century.

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Did you read St.Paul's post whereas she questioned over and over again whether or not whites had any interactions with black MEN? Not once did she mention black WOMEN, or even the generic black PEOPLE. Nope, just black men, because we know that black men are the only black people, just like white women are the only women.

#1 - my best friend, the person with whom I have chosen to spend my life with, happens to be a BLACK MAN... if you have been reading my posts, long as they tend to be, you will know that I most often speak from my own experiences - therefore, I speak for black men first and foremost.

If I was in a same-sex relationship with a black woman, then perhaps I could speak more so for black women, because I would have more personal experiences to draw upon. Buy hey, I don't play that way!

I do not have as many PERSONAL EXPERIENCES of discrimination against black women as I do against black men... I know it happens, I just haven't been on the front lines so I can't report on it. Why don't you give us some specific examples from your personal experiences? I share stories because it illustrates my points. Why not illustrate some of the points you are trying to make by sharing your personal stories with us? I'd love for you to expound upon your deeply felt feelings and opinions with specific examples.


#2 - Black men are FEARED in this society. Moreso than black women. How often do you hear of people crossing the street to avoid a group of black WOMEN ??? Seriously.


Black men are the underdog, moreso than black women. I fight for the underdog, especially when that underdog happens to be my best friend.

#3 - By defending black men I sincerely believe I am also defending black women. I sincerely believe black men and black women share the same boat - defending one also serves to defend the other.

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

If you study the literature whether it's about Civil Rights or Women's Rights, it's clear that they are only talking about black men and white women.

Nonsense. This statement is simply illogical - at least the assertion Civil Rights was only about black men is illogical. If you believe your statement to be true, let's see you back it up with facts.

Women's rights? Yeah, well, that one is kind of a mixed bag in my book... I personally don't feel a lot of affinity with the modern-day women's rights activists.

Historically? Hmmm... Didn't black women get the right to vote the same time black men got the right to vote ??

Reproductive rights? I'm personally kind of on the fence on that issue, at heart I'm pro-life - but I am a realist and therefore my pragmatic side is pro-choice. ::shrug::

Women's Rights and Economics? You got me on that one, I'd have to research the topic before I'll attempt to speak on it.

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

As I've stated before, black women were castigated by both groups during the election. If we were for Clinton then we 'betrayed' black people (read, black men). If we were for Obama then we 'betrayed' women (read, white women). Some columnist has done at least three articles about how Michelle Obama is 'betraying' women, (read that as white women) by choosing to focus on her children instead of continuing her career. Even when it was pointed out to her that by choosing to be a SAHM Mrs. Obama is actually being a trailblazer for BLACk WOMEN, who have traditionally not had the luxury of being a SAHM, that comment is blithely dismissed. If it doesn't benefit white women, then it doesn't benefit women.

I think here you are probably making a good point.

Referencing my personal experiences, once again...

I will admit, this is one area where I royally screwed up in the early years of my marriage. I insisted upon being a SAHM while ignoring the fact my husband felt overly burdened by the responsibilities of being the sole provider for our family. My husband was in a straight-commission sales position, he was doing well, he posted the 2nd highest numbers in the state for his Fortune 500 company the year I decided to start staying at home fulltime.

Once I became a SAHM, his income inexplicably nosedived. I now believe my husband was "psyched out" by the daunting responsibility of being the sole provider for our family and this negatively impacted his earnings.

I didn't understand what had happened until an AA woman social worker pointing out to me the fact AA families have not, traditionally, had the luxury of single-income families due to the fact neither black men, nor black women, could earn enough money to support a family on one income.

Based upon my personal experiences, I now believe: If black women are going to aspire to be SAHMs then they need to address the whole picture and make sure their decision is not something they are forcing upon their man - especially if the aspiring SAHM happens to be married to a black men. Be sensitive to the fact a single-income household with children is a lot of pressure... truthfully, it's a lot of pressure for ANY man.

I've now worked out a compromise of sorts in my own life... I am now both a SAHM and a home-based entrepreneuer.

So, I would say, Michelle Obama's example as a SAHM is important, but she's hardly the typical mom, AA or not, nor is she really "not working outside the home". The role of First Lady, while unpaid, is actually a full-time job - a job which requires numerous public appearances each week.

Still, good point.

Although, I seem to remember you arguing with LadyRo in another thread about the entire concept of staying at home to be a housewife and SAHM. I believe you said you'd never jeopardize your career or accomplishments to date to be a housewife and/or SAHM? But I get it - you don't have the luxury to be a SAHM.

Roslyn, you ought to know the Neofeminist do NOT speak for all women - black or white. They most certainly do not speak for ME. As a woman, I am very proud of the example Michelle Obama is setting for all women, including my daughters. I LOVE Michelle Obama.

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

. As I've stated before, black women were castigated by both groups during the election. If we were for Clinton then we 'betrayed' black people (read, black men). If we were for Obama then we 'betrayed' women (read, white women).

This was a very big angst for black women during the primaries... "Should I support Hilary for my female side or Obama for my black side?"

Last year my really good friend, a black woman, went on and on to me about the Clinton-Obama quandary for black women. I personally felt no such quandary - I lost all respect for Hilary back when she failed to kick Bill to the curb for doing the Lewinsky. IMHO, Hilary should have made an example of Bill, and in doing so, she would have sent a warning to men everywhere!

In the end my friend has said she is very, very pleased with Obama as President and Hilary as Secretary of State. But yes, this was and is a very real conflict for black women.

[RoslynHolcomb]

My point is not that I don't believe that black women are important, I'm saying that to most of society black women aren't important, especially as it pertains to civil rights and women's rights. I don't need a list of black women who've made history. I need you to acknowledge the fact that in the post I responded to you totally ignored black women.

If I was in a same-sex relationship with a black woman, then perhaps I could speak more so for black women, because I would have more personal experiences to draw upon. Buy hey, I don't play that way!

Fine, then say so. Your views are totally biased towards black men. Fine, I have no problem with that. It's been my experience that most white women who are married to black men are indoctrinated that way. This really came out in your 'treadmill story.' But don't then act as though there's something strange when I point out that black men aren't the only black people. I happen to be married to a white man, but I would never presume to speak of white people and totally ignore the presence of white women. That sounds absolutely nuts.

Several years ago I was on a message board whereas people discussed interracial relationships. Many of the white women there were married to black men, most of the black women there were married to white men. It provided for some interesting conversations. The white women would dismiss our comments when we talked about the invisibility of black women, and being ignored within both the black culture and the larger culture. Years later, many of those white women, particularly the ones who have daughters are now seeing for themselves. Of course, being biracial those daughters are still more 'speshul' than the girls who aren't mixed, but certainly, they're not as 'speshul' as white women.

Although, I seem to remember you arguing with LadyRo in another thread about the entire concept of staying at home to be a housewife and SAHM. I believe you said you'd never jeopardize your career or accomplishments to date to be a housewife and/or SAHM? But I get it - you don't have the luxury to be a SAHM.

Uh no, that would be someone else. I AM a SAHM and have been since shortly after my son was born. I'm also a published author and do have some income, but certainly I don't work outside the home. The decision for me to stay at home was not one that was forced on my husband as he actually prefers it because of the stability it gives our home life. I had planned to return to work when we moved to Atlanta because the cost of living here is appreciably higher, but I haven't been able to find employment. I'm still looking, though the pressure has been alleviated somewhat, but since my son will be starting school in the fall, it's an ideal time for me to return to the workforce. But my writing career seems to be taking off and the money crunch is not as bad as it was.

#2 - Black men are FEARED in this society. Moreso than black women. How often do you hear of people crossing the street to avoid a group of black WOMEN ??? Seriously.

Black men are the underdog, moreso than black women. I fight for the underdog, especially when that underdog happens to be my best friend.

And therein lies the rub my friend because it's simply not true. Black women are loathed and despised in this culture in a way that would send most women screaming into the night. The disappearance, rape, murder and mutilation of black women is ignored in way that would never be tolerated if they were white women. A black woman was gang-raped in her home and forced to perform a sex act on her own son and the premiere civil rights organization came out in defense of her attackers.

Mike Tyson raped a black woman and was given a welcome home parade. Genarlow Wilson, a convicted rapist of two black girls, one who is shown on videotape being forced to perform a sex act on him WHILE UNCONSCIOUS was given a scholarship to one of the premiere black institutions in this country.

I could list the atrocities and violations against black women that are ignored by both the BLACK and WHITE communities. Black men are pretty much sacrosanct in the black community even as they're reviled in the white community. Black women are treated like crap in both. But, of course, you don't sleep with black women so you wouldn't know about that. I suspect, as your daughters come of age, you will discover otherwise.

There is a book you might want to read by Lisa Jones who is the daughter of a white woman, and the black nationalist poet Amiri Baraka. The book is called Bulletproof Diva, and I suspect it will be enlightening. The authors bell hooks, Jill Nelson and Michelle Wallace have written some compelling books as well. hooks' Ain't I a Woman is a classic as is Wallace's Black Macho and the Myth of the Superwoman. Nelson's Straight, No Chaser is a phenomenal work. Johnetta Cole, who used to be the president of Spelman College has a book that's called Gender Talk, it will utterly blow your mind.

The statement that "All the women were white and all the blacks were men," is a common on in black womanist writings. It's not an expression of my personal beliefs, but a critique of both the civil rights and feminist movements from a black woman's perspective. Even the creation of the term 'womanist,' by writer Alice Walker, is a commentary on the way black women have been treated within the feminist movement.

[StPaulEastSider]

Okay Rosyln...

You made some really good, and dare I say valid, points in the above posts. I do recognize many of the facts you point out, such as when a white woman turns up missing the story makes national, and international news - "missing white woman syndrome", and the fact violence against black women is largely ignored by the media.

I was infuriated by how many commentaries I heard and read which tried to blame Rihanna, at least partially, for the incident with Chris Brown prior to the Grammy Awards. Would a white woman be blamed for instigating a domestic assault? It's happened - but in the media at large, highly unlikely. When was Nicole Simpson ever blamed for the domestic violence in her relationship with O.J.?

+++++

Perhaps you could enlighten me on this situation....

I have a good friend, we are in a bible study together, who has been shunned by her mother-in-law since the day she first met my friend. My friend is black, actually bi-racial, married to a white guy. Being 'speshul' hasn't helped this woman, at least not in terms of her mother-in-law. The MIL made my friend's wedding day miserable, a couple of years later, when the couple announced they were expecting, the MIL's unpleasantness turned to nastiness. When her grandsons were born - twin boys - my friend's MIL shunned her own flesh and blood. There was yet another nasty incident with the MIL this past Mother's Day. My family has never been that bad about my marrying a black man - any reservation which may have been present where not even expressed and when my kids were born they were welcomed into the family with open arms - my mom is crazy about her grandkids. We've actually gotten more flack from the black/southern side of our family than the white/northern side of our family.

I have thought that it's just a case of my being fortunate in that my family is accepting of my husband, whereas my friend married into a less accepting family. But could it be my friend is getting all this flack because she's a black woman who has married into a white family? I dunno.

The crazy part is, my friend was raised, culturally, in an all-white community. She did not have any contact with her father's family. She's only reconnected with her father's side of the family as an adult... she only learned about black culture from books and the media up until her college years, when she intentionally sought out black culture. Therefore, there really was NOT a cultural gap between my friend and her husband, only the color of her skin and the texture of her hair identified her as bi-racial.

++++++

What you are saying about black men being sacrosanct in the black community - yeah I think I've seen that one in action.

A white friend of mine once called the police on her black boyfriend and our black girlfriend took issue with the fact our friend called the police on a BLACK MAN. I came the defense of our friend/the woman - naturally. It was a case of domestic assault and the guy needed to be checked... domestic violence needs to be nipped in the bud or it will escalate. This was a case of nipping it in the bud, so the actual "offense" may have seemed minor, but the purpose of calling the police was to stop it from happening again and escalating.

I had in fact told this friend, after a prior incident, to call the police if it happened again - and of course, it did happen again - but this time the woman called the police and the guy was arrested. Therefore, in the eyes of our black girlfriend, I was also culpable in the atrocity of calling the police to arrest a black man.

Our black girlfriend also accused the white woman of instigating the fight, and "baiting" the black man.

This was one of the most difficult situations that group of friends of mine has every transgressed... actually, I don't know that we have fully gotten past the situation. Out of frustration, I actually said something which maybe I shouldn't have said.... I said to our friend - the black woman - "you are more black than woman!" Yeah, that didn't go over too well.

But seriously, when your girlfriend is getting physically knocked around - you take offense to your friend standing up for herself and drawing healthy boundaries because the woman's boyfriend happens to be a black man???

At the time, that just didn't make sense to me ... and two years later, it still doesn't make sense to me.

The guy ended up pleading guilty to a gross misdemeanor and attending court-ordered anger management classes, the couple is still together and, as far as I know, they have learned to disagree without violence... of course time will tell - this all went down a little under two years ago.

+++++++

And thank you for the book recommendations, I'll have to add those authors/titles to our family library. I've been collecting books by black American authors for many years now. It started out as picture books when our kids were young, in recent years I've been hunting down more biographies, novels, non-fiction political/sociology/anthropology and history titles to include in our family library.

I looked up your books on Amazon... your son is beautiful. You books are not what I would call family-friendly, but you go gurl! I've thought about one day writing a book, but probably not fiction - I don't even read much in the way of fiction.

My oldest daughter was accepted into a summer journalism program for minority students held at a local college campus... my daughter is especially excited about Robyn Robinson, a Twin Cities TV news anchor, being an instructor for the program.

Perhaps my daughter will one day add her voice to the genre of black, woman authors??

++++++

But we are taking Acidsnake's thread far off the OP here...

Roslyn, how would you define black culture?? What do you love and appreciate about black culture??

What do you observe as significant difference between your black culture and your husband's white culture?

The you tube videos I posted, btw, were intended to highlight spoken word poetry, an art form which originated out of black/hip-hop culture.

[RoslynHolcomb]

What do you observe as significant difference between your black culture and your husband's white culture?

Interesting question. Oddly enough we haven't had that many conflicts. You have to understand that the hubster and I came to marriage rather late. We were both 35 when we married, so most of our issues pertained really to two people who'd been alone for most of our adult lives trying to build something together. My husband is the son of an Episcopal priest, and has lived all over the world, so subsequently he's quite adaptable. He fits in very comfortably wherever he's placed, his whole family is this way. I remember at our wedding my friends kept asking, "What kind of white people are these?" because they were totally comfortable around black people.

One thing that did come up early on though, was the issue of 'fixing his plate.' In my family, this is traditional. The women fix their men's plates. It's simply a gesture of respect. Showing that you take care of your man. Well, my husband didn't like the idea of me serving him one bit. It made him really uncomfortable. So at the next family gathering I didn't do it. All the women in my family were giving me the 'stink eye,' and asking if everything was okay. Now we've got it down. With my family I fix his plate, with his family I don't. Either way, he still gets the 'big piece of chicken.'

As to what black culture is, I can only speak for myself. To me, black culture is about working hard, and playing harder. I can still remember my father and uncles and their back-breaking labor, and the Saturday night parties to blow off the steam of a hard week's work. The fish fries, and Miss Betsy out back who sold homebrew, but would be the first person in church on Sunday morning 'whupping' that piano. Structure and discipline. Mamas correcting knobby kneed little boys in their Sunday best. Humor. Humor is a crucial part of black culture. Spike Lee captured my memories with the scene from Do the Right Thing with the old men in front of the barber shop. My uncles were without a doubt the funniest men on the planet. They would give everyone the most horrible nicknames, and those names would stick. Fourth of July barbecues with them sitting around janking while the women made potato salad and peach cobbler that made you want to slap yourself.

Black culture is all about food. Peach cobbler so good it helped me lure my husband. And music, nobody could ever forget the music. Hot summer nights sleeping on the porch while Aretha and Percy and Sam crooned into the night.

To me black culture is all about hearts totally open, but also a restraining discipline that wouldn't hesitate to call on you to tighten up when you were in the wrong. Miss Ethel and Miss Betsy and who knows who all else who would bring you up short in a heartbeat.

Black culture more than anything is about family and deep roots that go back generations into the fertile soil of the Deep South. Those roots that gave us a foundation and a belief that we could and should be anything we wanted to be. A belief system sustained and fed by generations of collard greens, peach cobbler and more than anything...love.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Oh, and while Try a Little Tenderness isn't suitable for anyone underage, I'd not hesitate to let a young one down to about 12 or so read Rock Star.

[StPaulEastSider]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Interesting question. Oddly enough we haven't had that many conflicts. You have to understand that the hubster and I came to marriage rather late. We were both 35 when we married, so most of our issues pertained really to two people who'd been alone for most of our adult lives trying to build something together. My husband is the son of an Episcopal priest, and has lived all over the world, so subsequently he's quite adaptable. He fits in very comfortably wherever he's placed, his whole family is this way. I remember at our wedding my friends kept asking, "What kind of white people are these?" because they were totally comfortable around black people.

One thing that did come up early on though, was the issue of 'fixing his plate.' In my family, this is traditional. The women fix their men's plates. It's simply a gesture of respect. Showing that you take care of your man. Well, my husband didn't like the idea of me serving him one bit. It made him really uncomfortable. So at the next family gathering I didn't do it. All the women in my family were giving me the 'stink eye,' and asking if everything was okay. Now we've got it down. With my family I fix his plate, with his family I don't. Either way, he still gets the 'big piece of chicken.'

As to what black culture is, I can only speak for myself. To me, black culture is about working hard, and playing harder. I can still remember my father and uncles and their back-breaking labor, and the Saturday night parties to blow off the steam of a hard week's work. The fish fries, and Miss Betsy out back who sold home brew, but would be the first person in church on Sunday morning 'whupping' that piano. Structure and discipline. Mamas correcting knobby kneed little boys in their Sunday best. Humor. Humor is a crucial part of black culture. Spike Lee captured my memories with the scene from Do the Right Thing with the old men in front of the barber shop. My uncles were without a doubt the funniest men on the planet. They would give everyone the most horrible nicknames, and those names would stick. Fourth of July barbecues with them sitting around janking while the women made potato salad and peach cobbler that made you want to slap yourself.

Black culture is all about food. Peach cobbler so good it helped me lure my husband. And music, nobody could ever forget the music. Hot summer nights sleeping on the porch while Aretha and Percy and Sam crooned into the night.

To me black culture is all about hearts totally open, but also a restraining discipline that wouldn't hesitate to call on you to tighten up when you were in the wrong. Miss Ethel and Miss Betsy and who knows who all else who would bring you up short in a heartbeat.

Black culture more than anything is about family and deep roots that go back generations into the fertile soil of the Deep South. Those roots that gave us a foundation and a belief that we could and should be anything we wanted to be. A belief system sustained and fed by generations of collard greens, peach cobbler and more than anything...love.

Roslyn... this is a beautiful post!

It's so nice to finally read a post like this coming from you. I mean, I hate to say it, but to be honest - too often you've come off as hatin' on your own kind on the c-d Atlanta forum. Most certainly you've come off as hatin' on black men, especially in the "Diary..." thread.

But here ^^^, in the above post, you are lovingly recalling all that's good and right about black culture. And it's beautiful, absolutely beautiful !

I love what you had to say about humor in the black community, because this is what attracted me to my husband in the early years of our relationship - and to a large extent, it's what has kept us together all these years. The humor in black culture stands in stark contrast to the staunchly stoic German nature of my mother's side of the family. But, in my experience, this humor can also be a double-edged sword, at times you need to have a thick skin at times to withstand some of the barbs hidden within the humor dished out by my husband and his family.

I laughed out loud at your description of your uncles and nicknames, because my daughter was complaining just a couple of weeks ago about the nickname - "lumpy" - given to her by her Uncle when she was a newborn and her head was less than symetrical due to the birthing process. The shape of her head quickly rectified itself, but to this day her Uncle still calls her "lumpy" - a name she doesn't much aprreciate as a 16 year old!

The emphasize on love and family in black culture also stands in stark contrast to my family of origin - at least the demonstrations of love and family stand in stark contrast to one another.

Eighteen years later my husband and I still talk, and laugh, about the memory of his mother, at our wedding reception, embracing my mother with a huge bear hug as she exclaimed "We're family now!" My mother just stood there, seemingly in shock, with her arms at her side, unable to respond - LOL! The memory serves to illustrate the contrasts between our two families - and cultures!

As a side note, I was well into adulthood before I figured out my mother's "language of love". She never says "I love you", nor does she demonstrate love with hugs and kisses - she demonstrates her love for us through gift giving. A bag of "Bath & Body Works" from my mom is the equivalent of a bear hug from my mother-in-law before she passed.

Thank you Roslyn, for sharing your positive thoughts and memories with us.

[bizchick86]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

I'm not quite so sure about that. I've seen many people who come from two parent homes and still comment violent acts. Even in one parent homes where there still a relatively decent amount of economic comfort, criminal action still seems to be the first choice.

There many societies on this planet who do not have the material comfort that even the poorest of African Americans posess and yet still manage to survive & not kill each other to the extent that a subsect of African American society does. I am asking: why?

If that question seems a bit much, that's because it was meant to be so. If I can't ask a question like this without being ridiculed then maybe there is no solution. U.S. AttyGen. Eric Holder may be right...

So what is your point exactly? So a subsect of African American society engages in criminal activity for various economic, psychological, and social reasons, just as a subsect of other races are violent for the same reasons.

According to your original post, your thread is about "us black folks" not a subsect of black people. Based on the responses, people have offered some pretty comprehensive observations about the richness of African-Americans.

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by bizchick86

So what is your point exactly? So a subsect of African American society engages in criminal activity for various economic, psychological, and social reasons, just as a subsect of other races are violent for the same reasons.

According to your original post, your thread is about "us black folks" not a subsect of black people. Based on the responses, people have offered some pretty comprehensive observations about the richness of African-Americans.

Originally I started this thread because of the disproportionate violence plaguing the black community in comparison to other communities. In particular the Atlanta rapper "Dolla" who was killed in L.A.

What I find is that although many in our community are programmed on hair-trigger alert to jump at the slightest instance of white on black violence(usually from police officers) there rarely seems to be that same alarm when comes to black on black violence. I wanted to know, why? I wanted know if there was something in our culture that is lacking, in terms of inter-community self-checkup.

My verdict? We Africans Americans by large are not yet enlightened enough to engage on such a self-journey. Sure, we produced some very enlightened leaders who were ahead of their time like Harriet Tubman, Booker T. Washington, Sojourner Truth, Frederick Douglass, Martin Luther King Jr., and more, but in my opinion, our community presently as a whole is not there yet. What angers me most is that I want us to be there.

Too many of us have a tendency get on our high horse and demand truth and openness from white folks, but we don't demand it from each other. Then when some of us try to do so like Bill Cosby, the result is that those brave few who dare to call a turd a turd are shouted down, are called "Uncle Toms" or are simply forced to shutup and tow the "company line" so to speak.

We use our position as a traditional underclass minority and consistently cloak ourselves into an ideal of Afrocentric "blacker than thou" self-righteousness but too many of us as I see it are unable to articulate a longterm goal for the future of the black community. That march in Jena, LA meant absolutely nothing if the succeding criminal acts of the supposed victim Mychal Bell weren't also addressed.

Those are my points,most of which I have consistently stated & re-stated all along, although if you are an "Afrocentric" yourself you will more than likely find them in much distaste. I think this thread has ran its course.

If the moderator wishes to shut it down I'd say go for it, because I see nothing that indicates an evolution of thought within the black community for the foreseeable future.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Actually I think the problem is that you asked your question in the wrong forum. City data boards are primarily there to discuss cities. If you want to talk about black culture and such, there are literally dozens of bloggers who are doing the type of analysis that you seek. They range from all sides of the political spectrum. Just off the top of my head I can recommend The Field Negro, Aunt Jemima's Revenge, Jack and Jill Politics and What About Our Daughters. If you read the blog rolls on these blogs you will find hundreds more who are doing the same thing.

[kayrob]

[quote= .

Black culture is all about food. Peach cobbler so good it helped me lure my husband. And music, nobody could ever forget the music. Hot summer nights sleeping on the porch while Aretha and Percy and Sam crooned into the night.

[/QUOTE]Yeah and as a result it's about some other things also. Namely obesity, stroke, hypertension, heart disease and cancers. Especially here in the South and amongst the female segment. Far too often its certainly not about moderation. Some of the condition that I see even some of the young Black people in during the times that I commute on Marta is just appaling,