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Old 06-25-2009, 08:35 AM
 
2,683 posts, read 5,217,678 times
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I do not know all the details of the beltline plan but it sounds great to me. I think light rail is important along with the parks and everything else. The cities that have light rail seem to have more advanced, vibrant urban cores. Even cities that have been stuck in traffic nightmares and behind the times for years like Seattle are finally adding light rail.

I assume that you don't mean to say that Atlanta is not a real city but I strongly believe that to grow the urban core you need light rail as it promotes development and provides an easy way to get around. Certainly it is always a fight (Even DC faced a tough fight to put their subway in) and many people oppose it but in the long run I think it makes your city better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blondandfun View Post
what trails? I'm only speaking for myself. I'm not a city planner. But I believe the beltline is a residential line. The business centers of Atlanta are downtown and buckhead, which the beltline completely bypasses and is too far.

WHile it may be nice to get to some park on a Saturday, do you think that will be enough to sustain light rail?

There will only be a small handful of nodes on this line where there is a high amount of density.. most of it though is old residential areas.

While you may think 20 years is a long time, while there may be a few more skyscrapers in the city, that doesn't really mean anything, most of the in-town areas of Atlanta have been stagnant, 30 years ago we had a higher population.

I don't think the beltline is the magical answer you think it is. I think we need to focus on the basics of what a real city is first.

In other words, I think we need to hit some people over the head with a bat first

But i'm a glass half empty type
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:49 AM
 
1,485 posts, read 1,666,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blondandfun View Post
what trails? I'm only speaking for myself. I'm not a city planner. But I believe the beltline is a residential line. The business centers of Atlanta are downtown and buckhead, which the beltline completely bypasses and is too far.

WHile it may be nice to get to some park on a Saturday, do you think that will be enough to sustain light rail?

There will only be a small handful of nodes on this line where there is a high amount of density.. most of it though is old residential areas.

While you may think 20 years is a long time, while there may be a few more skyscrapers in the city, that doesn't really mean anything, most of the in-town areas of Atlanta have been stagnant, 30 years ago we had a higher population.

I don't think the beltline is the magical answer you think it is. I think we need to focus on the basics of what a real city is first.

In other words, I think we need to hit some people over the head with a bat first

But i'm a glass half empty type
Do you actually try to be factually incorrect? Its hard to imagine any other way that you can make so many false statements.

The population estimates surpassed the all-time high for the city two or three years ago.

Regarding the Beltline, it is not just a transit project. It is also proposes to create dense developed areas and absorb a lot of the city' future growth along the transit/trail corridor.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
625 posts, read 942,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
Do you actually try to be factually incorrect? Its hard to imagine any other way that you can make so many false statements.
My bad, I was off by 2 years on the population statistics... whatever dude.

Quote:
Regarding the Beltline, it is not just a transit project. It is also proposes to create dense developed areas and absorb a lot of the city' future growth along the transit/trail corridor.
Yeah, duh. You don't need to give me a definition of what the beltline is. My response had more to with the light rail aspect of it.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:28 AM
 
288 posts, read 833,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blondandfun View Post
It's a big deal for a city with only 500k people. But I think they should just put in a bike trail and forget the light rail.
I totally agree with Blondandfun, great insight on both posts here! The problem with the beltline project is that its only serving intown, so the same ole people will use it but it will be totally useless for neighboring cities. We need to think bigger with this. Blondandfun's idea of a bike/walking trail would be awesome, keep the green space, it would connect to different communities intown. If beltway goes in, hope all the people in the Virginia Highlands dont mind random wanderers from the "other side of the track" getting off their stop to walk around, to me its just going to add even more crime imo.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:48 AM
 
2,683 posts, read 5,217,678 times
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I am almost certain that the beltline plan calls for trails linking the various new parks around the city, which will be great.

Whats wrong with serving intown. A strong urban core makes the whole region better. Neighboring cities can always link up to the beltline if they are interested. This is a huge plan and the result of thinking big. Its not just rail, not just parks (and lots of them), not just trails connecting parks but all of the above.

I don't get the crime argument. Portland Or has 44 miles of light rail and 64 stations but they havent become known as crime infested. Boston, LA, Philly and San Fran all have light rail integrated with heavy rail and it seems to work good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highriser987 View Post
I totally agree with Blondandfun, great insight on both posts here! The problem with the beltline project is that its only serving intown, so the same ole people will use it but it will be totally useless for neighboring cities. We need to think bigger with this. Blondandfun's idea of a bike/walking trail would be awesome, keep the green space, it would connect to different communities intown. If beltway goes in, hope all the people in the Virginia Highlands dont mind random wanderers from the "other side of the track" getting off their stop to walk around, to me its just going to add even more crime imo.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:52 AM
 
288 posts, read 833,238 times
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Just think Marta, as nice an addition for convenience as its been on the northside of town, the riffraff has doubled since before it was added, along with wanderers and thugs pretending to collect money for charity yet it isnt a legit group.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
625 posts, read 942,812 times
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I think there is demand for biking as a means of transportation, especially since it's environmentally friendly.

But NO, the city wants to think big, without working from the ground up on its problems.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:06 AM
 
288 posts, read 833,238 times
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Honestly I would think it would be very cool to see more people riding scooters or mopeds, their fun, and save a ton of gas! Although when it rains or is really cold thats a different story.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,525 posts, read 10,119,481 times
Reputation: 5953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highriser987 View Post
I totally agree with Blondandfun, great insight on both posts here! The problem with the beltline project is that its only serving intown, so the same ole people will use it but it will be totally useless for neighboring cities. We need to think bigger with this. Blondandfun's idea of a bike/walking trail would be awesome, keep the green space, it would connect to different communities intown. If beltway goes in, hope all the people in the Virginia Highlands dont mind random wanderers from the "other side of the track" getting off their stop to walk around, to me its just going to add even more crime imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highriser987 View Post
Just think Marta, as nice an addition for convenience as its been on the northside of town, the riffraff has doubled since before it was added, along with wanderers and thugs pretending to collect money for charity yet it isnt a legit group.
I hear your call for something larger scale outside of the intown areas and then the worry about increased crime to those same areas if the beltline rail progress. This irrational fear is THE reason why the metro area has such limited public transportation, the NIMBYers and the racial fear in the suburbs that wherever a rail line would come, crime and minorities will soon follow.

Do you not see the fallacy of your own argument... your derision of the beltline because we need something bigger then your accusation that same said rail will bring crime? Your posts are oxymoronish.
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Old 06-25-2009, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
625 posts, read 942,812 times
Reputation: 227
Highriser's comment on crime and hoodlums is valid on a neighborhood basis, which is what the Beltline mainly is, it's a neighborhood connector.

The Beltline is a completely different thing than the commute to work issue, I can't see how you could commute to work on the Beltline directly.

I actually don't think the fear of crime has anything to do with OTP people's rejection of MARTA, that's more of an issue with government incompetence and pssing away tax dollars' moneys, which is seen by many to be more likely in Fulton/Atlanta than in Cobb.

After all the city of Atlanta owns or has the largest airport in the world, 5 or more major colleges, and the city center, yet they ran out of money before many other jurisdictions int he area.
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