Population of the City of Atlanta as of July 1, 2008. Good news! (Savannah: loans, houses)

[JoeP]

Why can't Atlanta have both?

You seem to be equating density as only meaning condo towers.

I am referring to traditional grid like city neighborhoods. People have yards and their is diversity in styles and size of homes, but some density is maintained.

Do you propose the levelling of Buckhead with nothing but high rise towers?

You seem to have some warped cartoonish version of density. I did not say level Buckhead. I am merely acknowledging how unfortunate it is for the city to have so much land wasted like that.

Is that your PC ecologically correct save the earth plan?

You must be 4 years old, or worse an AM radio fan. You don't seem to know much about city planning or urban development and what makes sense for it.

It's not about political correctness. Your comment about an irrelevant term really is silly.

You rather be ignorant than think about a city that actually works.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by JoeP

I am merely acknowledging how unfortunate it is for the city to have so much land wasted like that.

Why do you feel that land is "wasted?" Why does a city have to be a concrete jungle with every square inch developed and occupied to be a "real city?" Have you ever lived in a city like NYC? Ever wonder why those people can't wait to get away and go to the country or other places for vacation?

[JoeP]

Please read what is posted. I never suggested a concrete jungle throughout the city. I also added that there is a misguided thought that density = only highrises. I went to add that traditional neighborhoods would work.

Every city is going to have large estates and that fine and they contribute to the city's tax base and character. However, drive around, go on google maps and look at the very large - incredibly vast area that is very low density. Lower than some burbs when you consider the large lots.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Please read what is posted. I never suggested a concrete jungle throughout the city. I also added that there is a misguided thought that density = only highrises. I went to add that traditional neighborhoods would work.

Every city is going to have large estates and that fine and they contribute to the city's tax base and character. However, drive around, go on google maps and look at the very large - incredibly vast area that is very low density. Lower than some burbs when you consider the large lots.

Agreed. Density can be added just by doing something as simple as building more townhouses. Fortunately, this has been the trend in the City of Atlanta for a few years now (current economic downturn withstanding).

Eventually this is what is going to happen to Buckhead. The low density mansion section of it's east of Peachtree side is in a prime location for high density development. Keep mind though that this won't happen overnight.

It might take 50 years or more, but it's do able. Just look at Midtown and Downtown. They are dense now, but there was a time mansions the same size as you find in Buckhead lined peachtree and spring streets.

[BringBackCobain]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Please read what is posted. I never suggested a concrete jungle throughout the city. I also added that there is a misguided thought that density = only highrises. I went to add that traditional neighborhoods would work.

Every city is going to have large estates and that fine and they contribute to the city's tax base and character. However, drive around, go on google maps and look at the very large - incredibly vast area that is very low density. Lower than some burbs when you consider the large lots.

Well, I am guessing that you are one of Andres Duany's followers who believes that suburbs should be erradicated and people should be forced to live on top of each other in high density cities. There is a reason for suburban style development - the market demands it. Not every area needs to be high density. Areas like Buckhead are what make Atlanta unique - let Midtown and Downtown be the place for high density.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

Well, I am guessing that you are one of Andres Duany's followers who believes that suburbs should be erradicated and people should be forced to live on top of each other in high density cities. There is a reason for suburban style development - the market demands it. Not every area needs to be high density. Areas like Buckhead are what make Atlanta unique - let Midtown and Downtown be the place for high density.

Thank you and thanks to Neil as well for sane answers to this reply to my previous post. Nuff said.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

Well, I am guessing that you are one of Andres Duany's followers who believes that suburbs should be erradicated and people should be forced to live on top of each other in high density cities. There is a reason for suburban style development - the market demands it. Not every area needs to be high density. Areas like Buckhead are what make Atlanta unique - let Midtown and Downtown be the place for high density.

You're a little misinformed.

New urbanism is simply about traditional neighborhood development. The key word being neighborhood and that can apply to a 20-story condo in Midtown or single family homes in Alpharetta. It is the most efficient and intelligent form of development in and around cities where people do have to live around one another. It is the way we always developed until the last 50 years.

There is a huge difference between suburban and sprawl. Suburbs do not have to be the completely random, unplanned mess that covers much of metro Atlanta and that has nothing to do with market demands.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

There is a huge difference between suburban and sprawl. Suburbs do not have to be the completely random, unplanned mess that covers much of metro Atlanta and that has nothing to do with market demands.

OK...I admit that maybe I'm ignorant. I have lived in different parts of the Atlanta area going back 27 years, and I've lived in the NY and Boston areas.

Most areas up north were settled many years ago and houses were built that are still being lived in today. Land has become very scarce and you don't have the kind of subdivision or planned communities in most parts of the northeast that you have in the Atlanta area and many parts of Florida for example. I don't understand what the problem is or why that's such as buggaboo for so many people.

The reason many people leave cities and move to suburbs is to get away from living on top of other people and to have more land and a larger living space in a quieter and safer location. What is it about the suburbs that you would change, without turning them into an urban landscapes? What is "unplanned" about a subdivision? Sure, there needs to be planning around utilities and water/sewer capacity, but that is easily done via the permitting process.

So what is it that you would do differently to make the Atlanta suburbs so much better, and please explain your comment about "market demands" as I don't understand your meaning.

[JoeP]

Well, I am guessing that you are one of Andres Duany's followers who believes that suburbs should be erradicated and people should be forced to live on top of each other in high density cities.

Again, another irrational comment based on ignorance and hyperbole. I never suggested erradicating anything. All I am stating that is that having a third of city being extremely low density is not conducive to a sustainable city. This is not tree hugging stuff, this is quality of life stuff for families and people of all ages, income groups and housing preferences. All of us are affected by this.

And yet again, comments are ignored that demonstrate that density does not mean 100% condo towers only or even a majority of new homes being townhomes. It simply means use the land more efficiently which traditional neighborhoods also help to do. Many intown neighborhoods provide adequate and diverse housing options - single family housing options with yards etc

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Agreed. Density can be added just by doing something as simple as building more townhouses. Fortunately, this has been the trend in the City of Atlanta for a few years now (current economic downturn withstanding).

Eventually this is what is going to happen to Buckhead. The low density mansion section of it's east of Peachtree side is in a prime location for high density development. Keep mind though that this won't happen overnight.

It might take 50 years or more, but it's do able. Just look at Midtown and Downtown. They are dense now, but there was a time mansions the same size as you find in Buckhead lined peachtree and spring streets.

This is the way most any city develops. The current growth area around Lenox and Phipps was primarily residential, people have sold their properties for commercial develpment when the location became hot (remember the buzz word for real estate - location). This density growth has been happening in Atlanta and in the suburubs on a natural scale as land prices have surged because of availability.

When land is cheap and people have automobiles, lower density suburban type development will happen. The current issue that is cropping up lately on threads like this is the total demonization of low density development as if it is the scourge of mankind. That is the point people like Neil, Cobain and myself have pointed out as an irrational response. As a city grows, it will become more dense, both in the central areas and suburban areas as well. Look what is going on in downtown Woodstock, a perfect example of a live/work/play community in a suburb not even inner ring. However market conditions have not made it an over night success. Things like this will take time.

But to rue Buckhead is silly IMO. It is THE wealthiest part of the state, the south, one of the wealthiest in the nation and thus the world. It is less dense than any of the suburbs. Perhaps there is some class envy going on here. Unless I win a lottery, I will never be able to afford to live there. But I will not diss it or pine away that it causes Atlanta's statistics of density to show up low compared to other cities. It is a beautiful area to drive thru and gawk at architectural and horticultural beauty and I hope it stays that way.

I grieve when I see one of the large older estates get knocked down, a cul de sac bulldozed thru it and a dozen McMansions pop up. I would rather the 50-80 year old mansion that sat on its 5 acres stay. Pooh on density in that regard.