Segregation (Atlanta, Sandy Springs, East Point: apartment, crimes, felony)

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by Sandy Springs Rep.

What kind of stupid question is this? I don’t know what on earth this has to do with anything.

Sorry to be blunt, the OP asked a very valid question and raises very valid points and then you come out with this crap dismissing any desire for less racial segregation. The OP never indicated any obsessive desire to make every single block perfectly split between every different race and profession, like you are suggesting.

Actually, the original post includes the statement:

"I rarely see whites, blacks, and other races and ethnic groups (even of the same economic standing) living together equally. Is this a bad thing or a good thing in your opinions?"

To me, this indicates that he/she believes there should be some perfect, equally balanced distribution of races, incomes, etc., as if having groups of the same race living together is somehow wrong. I'm in no way "for" segregation, but at the same time, I don't see anything wrong with what goes on here or in most major cities.

Why isn't anyone complaining when large asian groups tend to live in close proximity, and have asian stores, asian grocers, asian jewelers, etc., all in one area?

[Sweet Atlanta Peach]

Originally Posted by Sandy Springs Rep.

Yeah, self-segregation (people segregating on their own) is definitely a big problem in metro Atlanta. As others have said, though, Atlanta is not any worse than other cities/metro areas, it happens in every part of the country.

It is definitely a bad thing in my opinion, and I think that schools are a big, big part of it.
I think you're right, and that's a good way of putting it.

The problem would not be nearly as bad as it is (in fact, I don't think there would be much segregation at all) if schools weren't a factor. As you've probably learned on this forum, one of the TOP priorities for people with kids when they move somewhere is how good the schools are. People care about their children more than anything on earth, and they want the absolute best education they can give them. As we know, how good a school is determined by the students who go there, so the popular belief is that schools with more lower-income minorities who live in apartments aren’t as good as schools with all middle-class kids in single-family homes. This results in all the middle-class white people flocking to the schools with the least apartments and leaving the other schools to rot. It’s a domino effect, everybody is flocking to the places that are known for having “great schools”, and people keep avoiding the other schools more and more, so they get worse and worse until they are 100% non-white. At which point it is impossible to reverse.

I could go on and on about this. But this pattern, to me, is the biggest cause of segregation. I think people are generally more elitist than racist (not to say they aren’t racist too) and black people, as a whole, are below middle-class and white people don’t want to go to school with them, so they avoid areas with large black populations, and blacks get their own segregated areas of metro Atlanta without asking for them.

Not to say that all predominantly black schools are low-income, in fact a lot of them are fairly middle-class, but it seems like most of them have enough low-income blacks to scare whites away and convince them that the school is awful.

No, not at all. South Fulton is virtually all black (very few Hispanics either), very poor in some areas (and not poor in others), and white people seem to avoid it like the plague. North Fulton is predominantly white, extremely wealthy, and considered to have amazing public schools.

South DeKalb is less poor than South Fulton (from what I gather), but is still all black and North DeKalb is very mixed with blacks and Hispanics alongside affluent whites and the northern tip of DeKalb, Dunwoody, is extremely wealthy on par with North Fulton, East Cobb, but without the "amazing" schools, because there are a few apartment complexes too.

I got most of this information from schools.ajchomefinder.com, but they recently took down the racial percentages, so now they just have test scores, number of reduced lunches, and other things.

As others have said, those aren’t very accurate generalizations. You are right about the north/south divide, but both Cobb and Gwinnett significant black and Hispanic populations. Cobb has slightly more blacks and Gwinnett has slightly more Hispanics but Asians aren’t a big part of the picture. Cobb is not known for having a lot of Asians. Also as other have mentioned, Dunwoody and Buford Highway and pretty different areas , and Dunwoody is similar to North Fulton in that it has a lot of very wealthy whites.
What kind of stupid question is this? I don’t know what on earth this has to do with anything.

Sorry to be blunt, the OP asked a very valid question and raises very valid points and then you come out with this crap dismissing any desire for less racial segregation. The OP never indicated any obsessive desire to make every single block perfectly split between every different race and profession, like you are suggesting.

South Fulton is not virtually all black now.There are some wealthy affluent areas in South Fulton; they are called Sandtown, Camp Creek, Walden Park, places in Fairburn, etc. White people are not avoiding it like plague because I live in Fairburn and I have seen white people in the affluent areas of Fairburn, as well as in Camp Creek, Sandtown, and Cascade. As far as Hispanics go, most of them live in the areas of East Point (my school is over 50% Hispanic and growing) and Hapeville, which is also South Fulton.

I believe it's not a matter of segregation, but comfort level socially and what people can afford. And with the economy and foreclosure rate the way it is, who knows what race your neighbor may be now.

The bussing thing that goes on in Fulton has been going on eversince I can remember (Majority to Minority), but, what people don't know is when I was in school (at Tri-Cities, a magnet school), there were white kids being bussed from the northside to our school, and even some being bussed to Westlake (which is a Science and Math magnet school).

However, when this "being able to place your child in any school in the district if there's room" thing blows up, it won't really matter in Fulton because we've sort of been doing it all along through programs such as majority to minority and hardships.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by Sweet Atlanta Peach

South Fulton is not virtually all black now.There are some wealthy affluent areas in South Fulton; they are called Sandtown, Camp Creek, Walden Park, places in Fairburn, etc. White people are not avoiding it like plague because I live in Fairburn and I have seen white people in the affluent areas of Fairburn, as well as in Camp Creek, Sandtown, and Cascade. As far as Hispanics go, most of them live in the areas of East Point (my school is over 50% Hispanic and growing) and Hapeville, which is also South Fulton.

I believe it's not a matter of segregation, but comfort level socially and what people can afford. And with the economy and foreclosure rate the way it is, who knows what race your neighbor may be now.

The bussing thing that goes on in Fulton has been going on eversince I can remember (Majority to Minority), but, what people don't know is when I was in school (at Tri-Cities, a magnet school), there were white kids being bussed from the northside to our school, and even some being bussed to Westlake (which is a Science and Math magnet school).

However, when this "being able to place your child in any school in the district if there's room" thing blows up, it won't really matter in Fulton because we've sort of been doing it all along through programs such as majority to minority and hardships.

I can vouch for this too. I grew up and in East Point (went to TCHS too) and while it's a majority black city it is anything but segregated.

When my parents first moved their in the early 80s, we were only the second or third black family to move to the neighborhood. Not long after a lot of white families moved out, but a lot stayed as well. On my old block, most of the old families are still there with the exception of those who have passed away.

Also during the 80s there was a large influx of refugees from Cambodia and Vietnam that were relocated there. Then in the late 90s an extremely large influx of Mexican and latin american immigrants came too. In fact, I remember the exact day that the first mexican student came to my 3rd grade class. My bet his family was the first mexican family in all of East Point because that was the first time my class had met somebody from Mexico. Imagine that in Atlanta today! LOL!

So despite looking like an example of a segregated scary place for non-black folks, it is actually quite multicultural. The white families that stayed in East Point integrated well with the black residents as well as everyone else. We all went to the same schools together. Everyone was/is welcome in each others house all the time.

It turned a bad situation where almost half of the city left in the late 70s and early 80s, to one of the success stories of integration in the post-Jim Crow South.

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by Sandy Springs Rep.

The problem would not be nearly as bad as it is (in fact, I don't think there would be much segregation at all) if schools weren't a factor. As you've probably learned on this forum, one of the TOP priorities for people with kids when they move somewhere is how good the schools are. People care about their children more than anything on earth, and they want the absolute best education they can give them. As we know, how good a school is determined by the students who go there, so the popular belief is that schools with more lower-income minorities who live in apartments aren’t as good as schools with all middle-class kids in single-family homes. This results in all the middle-class white people flocking to the schools with the least apartments and leaving the other schools to rot. It’s a domino effect, everybody is flocking to the places that are known for having “great schools”, and people keep avoiding the other schools more and more, so they get worse and worse until they are 100% non-white. At which point it is impossible to reverse.

Not to say that all predominantly black schools are low-income, in fact a lot of them are fairly middle-class, but it seems like most of them have enough low-income blacks to scare whites away and convince them that the school is awful.

I wish that my people would demand the best from themselves and from each other when it comes to rearing our kids and helping them out with school. Why should it have to be that it takes white people to make a school top-notch? Nations much poorer per capita than ours like China and India churn out millions of engineers, lawyers, technicians, and other assorted professionals a year.

The black community needs a cultural kick in the rear. I want for there to be a time where others are BEGGING to go to a black school for the high quality work ethic & parents who care to the point of fanaticism instead of the other way around. My humble opinion, of course.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

I wish that my people would demand the best from themselves and from each other when it comes to rearing our kids and helping them out with school. Why should it have to be that it takes white people to make a school top-notch? Nations much poorer per capita than ours like China and India churn out millions of engineers, lawyers, technicians, and other assorted professionals a year.

The black community needs a cultural kick in the rear. I want for there to be a time where others are BEGGING to go to a black school for the high quality work ethic & parents who care to the point of fanaticism instead of the other way around. My humble opinion, of course.

I don't disagree that segments of the black community needs to work harder on improving things. I highlighted segments because not all of the black community needs a "cultural kick in the rear" as you stated.

I would even go as far as to say that most black families in south and east Metro Atlanta and the immediate suburbs (really all of Atlanta, but that area most of all since we get the brunt of the insults hurled our way) are hard working people who are doing the right thing. But because of the large income disparity in that area, things fall apart.

A kid in the hood wants an education just as much as the kid in the northern suburbs. The education disparity stems from the fact that most of the school districts revenue comes from property tax and stays for the most part in the local area it was collected in. This is why most schools in North Fulton out perform South Fulton schools. To give you a prime example of this, like one of the posters said before, the high school in East Point is School for Performing Arts for all of Fulton County Schools. When I was there in the 90s, most of the instruments we used in the band and symphony were the left overs from other schools in the district. Yet, when we travelled up to North Fulton ALL of the schools from that area had brand new instruments.

Wrap your mind around that for a second.

It's the 21st century version of Separate and Unequal where the only color that matters in green. ALL kids (black, white, asian, latino) who live on the Southside are affected by this and it kicks in most evidently with high school aged children. I can remember very clearly people I went to elementary all the way up to high school with who were at the top of the class in the 4th grade and were flunking out by the 10th.

Now I'm not blind to the problems at hand. Much of that can be attributed to some kids losing interest in school and gaining interest in running the streets and committing petty and felony crimes. The side that never gets told though are the kids who are smart, don't fall in to the trap on the streets, but come from dirt poor families. Situations where they can't study at night because they have to work at the McDonalds on Virginia Ave for 5 hours every day so they can help pay rent or for food at home.

This isn't just some pretend situation either. My family was middle class and both of my parents had good high paying jobs. Myself and all of my siblings graduated with honors from high school and went on to some of the top universities in the country. The same happened to all of my friends who also came from middle class families.

The kids I grew up with who came from poor families all had to play the russian roulette version of life. Some rose above the challenges and became successful while others got killed on the street, or became junkies, or are sitting in a jail as I write this.

So before you paint a wide brush and say what's lacking the "black community", take a closer look at what's really going on.

[equinox63]

Ahh, thanks to Sandy Springs Rep. (and those who commented on the last couple of pages) for initiating the productive dialog I was looking forward too.

I had given up on the thread thinking that no one would understand or accurately address what i was talking about. Felt a little pigeon-holed there for a minute...

Albeit, I had Cobb and Gwinnett all the wrong. But the real disparity (primarily amongst schools and amenities) are most evident IMHO in Dekalb and Fulton.

Very insightful commentary...

Can anything be done, in your opinions, to improve the stigma that comes with predominantly black schools? If M. L. King High, or Miller Grove High, or Southwest Dekalb High, or Redan High, or Lithonia High, for example, were one of the top schools in GA or even the U.S., do you think that would be enough to attract whites to the area?

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by equinox63

Ahh, thanks to Sandy Springs Rep. (and those who commented on the last couple of pages) for initiating the productive dialog I was looking forward too.

I had given up on the thread thinking that no one would understand or accurately address what i was talking about. Felt a little pigeon-holed there for a minute...

Albeit, I had Cobb and Gwinnett all the wrong. But the real disparity (primarily amongst schools and amenities) are most evident IMHO in Dekalb and Fulton.

Very insightful commentary...

Can anything be done, in your opinions, to improve the stigma that comes with predominantly black schools? If M. L. King High, or Miller Grove High, or Southwest Dekalb High, or Redan High, or Lithonia High, for example, were one of the top schools in GA or even the U.S., do you think that would be enough to attract whites to the area?

I think you are missing the larger context of it all. Those areas like South Dekalb and South Fulton are historically majority black. And by historic I mean going back 35 to the mid 70s.

Before then, most of the areas that are now considered the "black part of town" looked pretty much like Forsyth County. (If you are curious, here are their numbers Forsyth County, Georgia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

When desegregation and Red Lining were ended, many middle class and affluent African-Americans moved to those areas. In turn, the majority of the whites left. This created a situation where those same people told others by word of mouth that if you are white not to move to those areas. Crime statistics were overblown or sometimes just made up. Except for a few bad crime areas in certain sections of East Point and College Park, South Fulton is relatively free of violent crime. Not that you could tell that by what the people who just swear they know about the place even though they haven't ever visited there. Except while rushing to the Airport of course.

If you asking if Whites will ever move to those areas. Yes, they will. They already do. Time will only tell what type of migration patterns will develop. I'll tell you this much though. The whole Eastside (Cabbagetown all the way to Decatur) was once one of roughest, least desirable areas in all of Atlanta. They government even tried to tear down most of the neighborhoods to build a GA-400 style highway all the way to Stone Mountain. Now it's one of the most desirable locations for gentrifiers to move.

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

I don't disagree that segments of the black community needs to work harder on improving things. I highlighted segments because not all of the black community needs a "cultural kick in the rear" as you stated.

I would even go as far as to say that most black families in south and east Metro Atlanta and the immediate suburbs (really all of Atlanta, but that area most of all since we get the brunt of the insults hurled our way) are hard working people who are doing the right thing. But because of the large income disparity in that area, things fall apart.

A kid in the hood wants an education just as much as the kid in the northern suburbs. The education disparity stems from the fact that most of the school districts revenue comes from property tax and stays for the most part in the local area it was collected in. This is why most schools in North Fulton out perform South Fulton schools. To give you a prime example of this, like one of the posters said before, the high school in East Point is School for Performing Arts for all of Fulton County Schools. When I was there in the 90s, most of the instruments we used in the band and symphony were the left overs from other schools in the district. Yet, when we travelled up to North Fulton ALL of the schools from that area had brand new instruments.

Wrap your mind around that for a second.

I've wrapped my head around this comment and somehow I am less convinced that if South Fulton had a couple of dollars that somehow students would magically do better. How do you even know if the money was being spent right? Have you ever done a school by school analysis from North to South to see how each one is budgeted?

Has it ever occurred to you that the tax money may be wasted on such frivolities like the Principal's secretary's having a secretary? Or that maybe there are more middle managers than necessary? County School boards are known for hiring more non-teaching related help than needed.

What about the racial composition of the county school or Fulton County Government board? Currently 4 out of the 7 Fulton County Commissioners are black. I have to ask myself: How long has the board been tilted towards African Americans and the problems have remained the same or gotten worse?

Remember, it was only in 2005 that the Shafer Amendent was put into Georgia law where taxes for the most part had to stay in the district where they were collected. So I must additionally ask myself: What was going on before then?

That's the problem my friend. Not enough people ask these kinds of probing questions, because they'd rather rely on ignorance and misinformation.

Maybe race had some role to play in how education is being conducted, but I doubt it's an end-all-be-all role. Some of it is people not demanding more from their government, and not taking the time to follow the money. I would also say that seeing from your own example of you graduating with high honors that maybe it's not such a necessity for a district to have the biggest bells and whistles in order to educate a child, certainly not some expensive musical instruments. This game of "keeping up with the Jones's" is what's messed this country up in the first place.

I'm sorry, but that horn ain't playin' here...

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

I've wrapped my head around this comment and somehow I am less convinced that if South Fulton had a couple of dollars that somehow students would magically do better. How do you even know if the money was being spent right? Have you ever done a school by school analysis from North to South to see how each one is budgeted?

Has it ever occurred to you that the tax money may be wasted on such frivolities like the Principal's secretary's having a secretary? Or that maybe there are more middle managers than necessary? County School boards are known for hiring more non-teaching related help than needed.

What about the racial composition of the county school or Fulton County Government board? Currently 4 out of the 7 Fulton County Commissioners are black. I have to ask myself: How long has the board been tilted towards African Americans and the problems have remained the same or gotten worse?

Remember, it was only in 2005 that the Shafer Amendent was put into Georgia law where taxes for the most part had to stay in the district where they were collected. So I must additionally ask myself: What was going before then?

That's the problem my friend. Not enough people ask these kinds of probing questions, because they'd rather rely on ignorance and misinformation.

Maybe race had some role to play in how education is being conducted, but I doubt it's an end-all-be-all role. Some of it is people not demanding more from their government, and not taking the time to follow the money.

I'm sorry, but that horn ain't playin' here...

I'm not at all making this about race.

All of the members of the Fulton County School Board could be black and it still wouldn't make a difference on what South Fulton did and didn't have. The reason why the schools on the south end of the county perform worse is tied directly the receipts of property tax into the district.

This is due both to economics and population. I don't have the exact number, but I'm pretty sure the north county outnumbers the south by at least 2 to 1. With the way the school funding laws work, most of the money earned from property taxes stays in the immediate area for distribution.

Given that North Fulton county is almost completely suburban and upper middle class to ultra rich, the public schools in that area are some of the best in the country. They are all in the top 100 in fact. They have the newest equipment for sports and performing arts, the best teachers are funneled there, and there is high emphasis on taking and passing proficiency, aptitude, and college placement tests.

I wasn't aware it wasn't until 2005 when the law was passed to keep revenues in district, so I too am wondering exactly was going on. As for my qualification on knowing the condition on all the schools in South Fulton it is impeccable. I'm one of the 5% of Atlanta residents who was born and raised here. I spent my entire primary and secondary schools years in the Fulton County school system. I saw how we not only received sometimes 20 year old instruments to use at the Performing Arts School, but also how my high school served three cities and was built for 1500 students yet had 3000 students packed into the halls. So I know the condition of the schools and the types of kids that go there quite well.

It is all too common to assume that children in these lower income areas unwilling to learn. In reality nothing could be further from the truth. There isn't anyone in this society who doesn't want to be successful and well to do to the point their family doesn't have to worry about a thing. Unfortunately all too many kids take what they think is the easy path by selling drugs and committing theft. This type of anti-social behavior ultimately leads to felony type crimes. Once you get caught up in this life, the least of your concerns is getting an education.

Regardless of what you think I might believe, this is a complex issue that all revolves around wealth distribution, not race. Disadvantage poor people in South Fulton cross all lines. For every black friend I had that lived in one of the housing projects of East Point or College Park, I had a white friend whose family were what people would consider rednecks who had a family that was 15 deep living in a two bedroom apartment and wore the same clothes everyday that they got from the church donation box. ANd yes, there are A LOT of rednecks living in South Fulton, just not the stereotypical racist kind. This is the area that Jeff "Scholar of All Rednecks" Foxworthy grew up. Also keep in mind that most of South Fulton is rural, and only the area ITP (East Point, College Park, and Hapeville) are urban.

Black, white, brown, or yellow, poor is poor. Growing up where I did I learned that at a very early age because a lot of the kids I grew up with were from a different background yet had the same story. A missing parent, junky parents, or worthless ignorant parents whom always set the expectation that no matter what they did success would never come their way.

The only solution to this problem is to totally reset the living conditions and work environment of this area. While East Point and College Park has their fair share of nicely manicured subdivisions and well preserved Victorian and Craftsman homes (ones that can go head to head with any you'd find in Inman Park), far too many residents live in squalor. Whether it be a rundown apartment block or a trailer home, this is unacceptable in our modern society and it's effects on the population at large is far reaching and destructive.

Steps have been taken in the past to address this from either a financial (job creation and welfare) or housing (The Projects) situation. Both areas of concentration need to be combined. You can easily create well to do, upstanding middle class people by just simply creating jobs that pay well. Manufacturing has always been the catalyst for this type of improvement, but I truly believe that Urban Highrise Farming could be the key.

There also needs to be a serious focus on publicly financed adult education outside of a person paying for trade school or a junior college. And despite what some might say (*cough* conservatives *cough*), this isn't a waste of money. An educated work force is an successful workforce, and a successful workforce contributes to the community at large in a positive way. But more so than that, there a far more people in the projects and trailer parks than you might believe that WANT to have a second chance at an education to improve their lives. Only they are too poor to do anything about it and because they left school or never did well they never get a chance to do so.

Haven't you ever wondered why you never see a large group 30+ year old thugs with gray hair and receding hair lines? It's because if they aren't dead or in jail for life, they are out their trying to make up for lost time and improve their lives all they can.

So lets end any speculation that the problems of South Fulton are race based. They are 100% economic.
d

[AcidSnake]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

I'm not at all making this about race.

All of the members of the Fulton County School Board could be black and it still wouldn't make a difference on what South Fulton did and didn't have. The reason why the schools on the south end of the county perform worse is tied directly the receipts of property tax into the district.

This is due both to economics and population. I don't have the exact number, but I'm pretty sure the north county outnumbers the south by at least 2 to 1. With the way the school funding laws work, most of the money earned from property taxes stays in the immediate area for distribution.

Given that North Fulton county is almost completely suburban and upper middle class to ultra rich, the public schools in that area are some of the best in the country. They are all in the top 100 in fact. They have the newest equipment for sports and performing arts, the best teachers are funneled there, and there is high emphasis on taking and passing proficiency, aptitude, and college placement tests.

I wasn't aware it wasn't until 2005 when the law was passed to keep revenues in district, so I too am wondering exactly was going on. As for my qualification on knowing the condition on all the schools in South Fulton it is impeccable. I'm one of the 5% of Atlanta residents who was born and raised here. I spent my entire primary and secondary schools years in the Fulton County school system. I saw how we not only received sometimes 20 year old instruments to use at the Performing Arts School, but also how my high school served three cities and was built for 1500 students yet had 3000 students packed into the halls. So I know the condition of the schools and the types of kids that go there quite well.

It is all too common to assume that children in these lower income areas unwilling to learn. In reality nothing could be further from the truth. There isn't anyone in this society who doesn't want to be successful and well to do to the point their family doesn't have to worry about a thing. Unfortunately all too many kids take what they think is the easy path by selling drugs and committing theft. This type of anti-social behavior ultimately leads to felony type crimes. Once you get caught up in this life, the least of your concerns is getting an education.

Regardless of what you think I might believe, this is a complex issue that all revolves around wealth distribution, not race. Disadvantage poor people in South Fulton cross all lines. For every black friend I had that lived in one of the housing projects of East Point or College Park, I had a white friend whose family were what people would consider rednecks who had a family that was 15 deep living in a two bedroom apartment and wore the same clothes everyday that they got from the church donation box. ANd yes, there are A LOT of rednecks living in South Fulton, just not the stereotypical racist kind. This is the area that Jeff "Scholar of All Rednecks" Foxworthy grew up. Also keep in mind that most of South Fulton is rural, and only the area ITP (East Point, College Park, and Hapeville) are urban.

Haven't you ever wondered why you never see a large group 30+ year old thugs with gray hair and receding hair lines? It's because if they aren't dead or in jail for life, they are out their trying to make up for lost time and improve their lives all they can.

So lets end any speculation that the problems of South Fulton are race based. They are 100% economic.
d

You are commenting on a thread about "Segregation". It's gonna be about race whether you want it to or not. I certainly hope that you are not making this criticism about my comments this late in the game just because what I said may have touched a nerve. It would be intellectually dishonest if that were the case, don't you think?

Also you and others who share your mindset on these matters must face the fact that there are folks here in the south who simply don't believe in sharing what they have with black folks or any other folks for that matter. Think about it: Up until the 1964 Civil Rights Acts we didn't even have a voice over how OUR community's tax dollars were being spent, much less the tax dollars coming from other people.

So now you are expecting that those people who traditionally didn't allow you(speaking metaphorically of course) access to your own tax money NOW share the tax money that they have with you. It just doesn't work like that. The founding of the Cities of Milton, Sandy Springs, Johns Creek, & Dunwoody along with the 2005 Georgia Shafer Amendment is a legacy of that mindset, that southern way of thinking.

Rather than beg, prod, and guilt-trip people who don't share the same socialistic ideal to educate ALL children regardless of race, creed, and nationality as you and others seem to want to do, maybe it's time to re-focus on the notion of funding and operating public schools and learn how to make the best and most efficient use of our tax dollars that we already have. At least we, the black community have THAT right. Otherwise the black community and other communities that are in the same dire straits will be like Don Quixote, tilting at windmills forever and forever.