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Old 08-12-2009, 08:24 PM
 
Location: East Cobb
2,206 posts, read 6,076,513 times
Reputation: 912

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
Kindly cite me ONE time when the Federal Government has had a success at managing ANYTHING.
It's tragic what a failure the American experiment seems to have been in the eyes of its most successful citizens. People are constantly telling me that America is great in spite of government, which seems to be pretty much equivalent to Satan in many minds. I don't get why Americans are so darned patriotic when they believe their national institutions to be a stinking pile of ****. Having lived most of my life in NZ and Canada, where people take pride in many government enterprises and civil servants are respected, the longer I spend in the US the weirder this place seems. Why ever does anyone bother to quote "We the people" etc.? You think that what you the people have jointly accomplished is ****. It makes no sense.

 
Old 08-12-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
625 posts, read 940,936 times
Reputation: 227
Bff, another scumbag overpaid greedy doctor worried about losing his 500k+ salary (while taking kickbacks from drug companies)... Please... Somebody should go drive by his house and take a picture and post it here.

Sorry to break it to you Doctor, but 8-10 years in college doesn't make you a wonderful great person worthy of the all the luxuries of the world.

I was in debt for many years for 5 hours of a doctor's work.

Undergrad Engineering school is harder, and we aren't paid nearly what we deserve.

"worried about my patients" LOL CLASSIC!!!
 
Old 08-12-2009, 08:30 PM
 
Location: South GA
10,893 posts, read 9,888,290 times
Reputation: 20878
Wondering what the Congressman's education is? But that wouldn't matter either? Nevermind. Doesn't matter.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 08:35 PM
 
94 posts, read 94,771 times
Reputation: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
I just can't believe how Americans *want* to keep pouring their hard-earned money into insurance company profits, paying endless copays and deductibles, fighting about uncovered procedures, facing denials, being restricted to "in network" practitioners, etc. The entire rest of the western world has universal coverage of one kind or another, but Americans think it's toxic. Sorry, I know there's no point arguing this topic, but you're all quite mad. It's Looking-Glass Land here.
It Is my money after all, to purchase My insurance , and to deal with any problems that might arise, they are My problems. My money, My problems, My country, and really none of your or the governments business.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,846 posts, read 14,886,749 times
Reputation: 3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
It's tragic what a failure the American experiment seems to have been in the eyes of its most successful citizens.
Again, with the utmost respect, I think you are missing the point. Before we became a country, our nation was founded by those escaping injustice and persecution, looking for individual freedom. Our nation was founded by people protesting an unjust colonial government. Throughout the years we have kept our liberty by being skeptical of those who tell us "trust me...I'm from the government, and I know what's good for you." You may not understand it, and that's OK. Just realize it's the foundation of our nation.

What you see as tragic is what I see as the strength of our nation. It's why we were able to combat the fascists in WWII and the Communists in the cold war. It's why we fight the other threats in the world as other countries sit on the sidelines and wring their hands. We are not Canada for some very good reasons. Canada is our friend and a great country, but there are differences that you need to accept.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 09:06 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,994,482 times
Reputation: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by locomotive View Post
It Is my money after all, to purchase My insurance , and to deal with any problems that might arise, they are My problems. My money, My problems, My country, and really none of your or the governments business.
Do you actually understand the function of insurance? You and everyone else buys it w/ the hope that you're sicker than your premium suggests. Diversifying risk among all your peers. You win less if you're healthy but lose less if you're sick b/c the risk is spread through the collective. Sounds like socialism to me regardless if there's a for profit entity on the other end or not. If you cost way more than your premiums covered the rest of our insurance goes up to make up for it. Only way your health is completely your private business is if you cancel every form of health insurance you have, save up the cash for your own healthcare, and then go home to die once you've exhausted your funds.

Subtract out that yucky gov't interference and the insurance companies can use collected information about you to selectively dump you if you're predisposed to any of the hundreds of congenital or lifestyle associated diseases that hurt their bottom line. MBA 101...exit unprofitable business segments...the old and enfeebled.

I'm not a fan of gov't bureaucracy but to say your health insurance is solely your business isn't really a true statement as long as you or anyone else can drag their way to a hospital and find some level of treatment regardless of coverage. Sure people get denied life saving treatment but isn't one of the huge arguments against illegal immigration the fact they get healthcare on the gov't dime b/c of indigent care? Until we adjust our social contract to allow people to die b/c they didn't buy insurance coverage, we need to find a way to cover (meaning extract premiums from) the rest of our population. This includes illegals and those just too damned cheap to buy coverage b/c they escape premiums but then get treatment at hospitals.

Ever wonder why the gov't has to provide health insurance for the elderly? It's b/c the private insurers won't touch that demographic of people that are guaranteed sickness and the clock runs out for all of us eventually. So why is it that private insurers are allowed to profit on insuring those of us in our prime and then drop us onto the gov't dime the second their profit margins are hurt by "pre-existing" conditions or we age into the high risk brackets. Virtually the only retirees that get private coverage are those represented by unions (we saw how well that went) and those exceptionally wealthy.

I think a valid discussion on healthcare is necessary but blanket statements on gov't failures and death panels overlooks the massive distortion of our current healthcare system. I have perfectly healthy coworkers getting antibiotics at the slightest cough and others cling to jobs b/c otherwise their quadruple bypass makes them wholly uninsurable. This is a drag on our society and we should endeavor to do better. Given our massive GDP and health spending you'd figure we'd do a bit better than other countries on life expectancies especially with our huge protections for our innovative drug industry. They better be damned well able to discover a thousand ED drugs with all the IP protection we give them. I don't agree w/ Obama's policy but I've tried to keep up w/ the various iterations in Congress. I'll reserve judgement when something makes it to the table.

Scott isn't doing anyone any favors by pulling the race card. Nor are his detractors for pulling racist stunts or even stupid talking points. We need to elevate the discussion to the real problems and realize that nothing is ever as black and white as pundits, politicians, or angry mobs make it out to be.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 09:14 PM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
7,909 posts, read 12,173,501 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
Kindly cite me ONE time when the Federal Government has had a success at managing ANYTHING.
The United States Military
NASA
USPS
FDIC
etc

We could continue this game by asking the question when has the private sector every done anything with the interests of people in mind and not their piggy bank?

No government is perfect. No corporation cares about anyone except themselves and their profits. Socialism nor corporatism would ever work on their own. The blending of the two theories is what has allowed America to be what it is.

I truly don't understand this line of reasoning that states that the federal government is evil...except when the star spangled banner is being played at a football game.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 09:17 PM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,122 posts, read 35,061,639 times
Reputation: 15314
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
It's tragic what a failure the American experiment seems to have been in the eyes of its most successful citizens. People are constantly telling me that America is great in spite of government, which seems to be pretty much equivalent to Satan in many minds. I don't get why Americans are so darned patriotic when they believe their national institutions to be a stinking pile of ****. Having lived most of my life in NZ and Canada, where people take pride in many government enterprises and civil servants are respected, the longer I spend in the US the weirder this place seems. Why ever does anyone bother to quote "We the people" etc.? You think that what you the people have jointly accomplished is ****. It makes no sense.
Why indeed?
The so-called representatives of the people have gone so far afield of what those words originally meant. Do you think these people that are showing up and protesting this mess at town meetings (as far as I can tell, that is a right we still have) that are being marginalized as "terrorists, rabble, troublemakers, et al" are doing so at the behest of some Conservative DemiGod? Wake up. It is shocking to me how intent people are at ignoring the highly orchestrated process that is unfolding before their very eyes.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,846 posts, read 14,886,749 times
Reputation: 3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishap View Post
Do you actually understand the function of insurance? You and everyone else buys it w/ the hope that you're sicker than your premium suggests. Diversifying risk among all your peers. You win less if you're healthy but lose less if you're sick b/c the risk is spread through the collective. Sounds like socialism to me regardless if there's a for profit entity on the other end or not. If you cost way more than your premiums covered the rest of our insurance goes up to make up for it. Only way your health is completely your private business is if you cancel every form of health insurance you have, save up the cash for your own healthcare, and then go home to die once you've exhausted your funds.

Subtract out that yucky gov't interference and the insurance companies can use collected information about you to selectively dump you if you're predisposed to any of the hundreds of congenital or lifestyle associated diseases that hurt their bottom line. MBA 101...exit unprofitable business segments...the old and enfeebled.

I'm not a fan of gov't bureaucracy but to say your health insurance is solely your business isn't really a true statement as long as you or anyone else can drag their way to a hospital and find some level of treatment regardless of coverage. Sure people get denied life saving treatment but isn't one of the huge arguments against illegal immigration the fact they get healthcare on the gov't dime b/c of indigent care? Until we adjust our social contract to allow people to die b/c they didn't buy insurance coverage, we need to find a way to cover (meaning extract premiums from) the rest of our population. This includes illegals and those just too damned cheap to buy coverage b/c they escape premiums but then get treatment at hospitals.

Ever wonder why the gov't has to provide health insurance for the elderly? It's b/c the private insurers won't touch that demographic of people that are guaranteed sickness and the clock runs out for all of us eventually. So why is it that private insurers are allowed to profit on insuring those of us in our prime and then drop us onto the gov't dime the second their profit margins are hurt by "pre-existing" conditions or we age into the high risk brackets. Virtually the only retirees that get private coverage are those represented by unions (we saw how well that went) and those exceptionally wealthy.

I think a valid discussion on healthcare is necessary but blanket statements on gov't failures and death panels overlooks the massive distortion of our current healthcare system. I have perfectly healthy coworkers getting antibiotics at the slightest cough and others cling to jobs b/c otherwise their quadruple bypass makes them wholly uninsurable. This is a drag on our society and we should endeavor to do better. Given our massive GDP and health spending you'd figure we'd do a bit better than other countries on life expectancies especially with our huge protections for our innovative drug industry. They better be damned well able to discover a thousand ED drugs with all the IP protection we give them. I don't agree w/ Obama's policy but I've tried to keep up w/ the various iterations in Congress. I'll reserve judgement when something makes it to the table.

Scott isn't doing anyone any favors by pulling the race card. Nor are his detractors for pulling racist stunts or even stupid talking points. We need to elevate the discussion to the real problems and realize that nothing is ever as black and white as pundits, politicians, or angry mobs make it out to be.

You make some good and well reasoned points, and I think you highlight some of the areas where solutions exist short of government takeover...such as preexisting conditions and portability beyond COBRA. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater has never been a good solution, and rushing something through just to say you did something has never been a good solution either.
 
Old 08-12-2009, 09:23 PM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,122 posts, read 35,061,639 times
Reputation: 15314
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
The United States Military
And thank God for that, since that was one of the ONLY powers granted to the Republic by the Framers of the Constitution.
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