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Old 09-07-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: NE Gwinnett
110 posts, read 201,373 times
Reputation: 67

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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Sorry, but I reject your assertions that opposition to Obama is race based. While I'm sure for some it could be racial, for me and for millions of others any opposition is based on his policies and his vision for the country.

It's too easy to just dismiss oppposition as kooks, nuts, racists, and fringe elements. Sure, there are some fringe morons on both sides, but much of the current opposition to Obama's and the Democrats' health insurance proposals is based on opposition to the policy and implications on taxes, the deficit, and direction of the country. Using the race card is the copout to avoid dealing with the real reasons why people oppose his policies. Charging race motives is the easy way out.

If all it was was a bunch of fringe kooks, do you think the Democrats would be so scared and backtracking the way they are doing? Do you think the President's poll numbers would be sinking the way they are if this was just a cooked up and contrived bunch of wackos as is the charge?

Great post, Neil.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:03 PM
 
12,923 posts, read 21,008,612 times
Reputation: 4083
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Would Obama have been better received as 'native born' black man? Probably not. For many, being an 'exotic Negro' is what made him palatable in the first place.


Roslyn...I couldn't have said it better myself. I've talked about this on so many occasions with so many people for the last 1.75 years.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:17 PM
 
1,258 posts, read 1,853,721 times
Reputation: 1286
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post

I have no doubt in my mind that someone will try to kill the president before this term is over. I'm actually frightened of some of the things I've seen and heard people say. This president has been assaulted in a way I've never seen before and at 45, I've seen a lot of really ugly politics. They didn't treat Nixon this way and he was impeached. He was always accorded the dignity and respect that went with the office. Apparently, according to many, Mr. Obama is not even entitled to that.
I must agree. And personally I do think some of the backlash against President Obama is racially based, some of the things I've heard are just absolutely absurd. Even one of my white co-workers believes this. I don't think everyone is against this man for this reason, but I believe a good number of those on the opposition side are.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 3,877,308 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Sorry, but I reject your assertions that opposition to Obama is race based.
Neil, find one place in my post where I said the opposition was race based, just one. I said no such thing, and you can't argue my points based on what I said, please don't bother to address me at all. This isn't a town hall meeting. Those people yelling about "Taking their country back" and showing up with assault weapons while wearing shirts with threatening messages on them are NOT talking about health care. Those people frantically asserting, despite all evidence to the contrary that Obama is a 'secret Muslim' are not worried about economic policy. They are xenophobes, worried about DIFFERENCE. And as I said in my initial post, in many ways Obama is DIFFERENT from most of the people that most Americans are acquainted with. I specifically pointed out that the man has lived in a country and has relatives in another country that many Americans couldn't find on a map. Americans have a long history of disliking those who are DIFFERENT.

Most of those people don't have even the foggiest notion of what his policies are. Even before he got elected and had a chance to implement them they were making up all manner of bogeyman stories about him. No, this isn't about race, or at least not only about race. Those people's problem with Obama is that he's DIFFERENT, FOREIGN.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 3,877,308 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
But think about when Katrina hit and how the hatred for Bush was frenzied, thats all that was discussed/seen for months.
But that was in 2005 a full year into Bush's SECOND TERM. During his first term, especially after 9/11 most Americans made it clear that criticizing the president was akin to treason. Dude had four full years of a free ride. Obama hasn't even had six months.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 3,877,308 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
If all it was was a bunch of fringe kooks, do you think the Democrats would be so scared and backtracking the way they are doing? Do you think the President's poll numbers would be sinking the way they are if this was just a cooked up and contrived bunch of wackos as is the charge?
That's the problem, unlike the Democrats fringe kooks, the Republican fringe kooks have their own network. And most of the Democratic opposition didn't become heated until well into Bush's SECOND TERM. Obama hasn't even finished his FIRST YEAR. Democrats are back-tracking because they've been here before and they don't want to go down in flames in the 2010 elections like they did in 1994. I find it hard to believe that anyone truly believes that those people were actually showing up at the townhalls in opposition to government healthcare when most of them were receiving Medicare. Most of those people were well over 65, and I guarantee you can take away their Medicare when you remove it from their cold dead hands. What do you think these people are so afraid that Obama is going to say to their kids? Do you think they're willing to have their kids miss school, and possibly miss work themselves because they disagree with his policies? What are they so afraid of? Presumably there have been politicians whose policies they haven't like before. Did they go into a panic and start making frantic phone calls to the school board? Of course not. It's not his blackness that has them crapping their pants, it's his otherness which is a whole 'nother thing entirely, or at least part of parcel of our xenophobia.
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Old 09-07-2009, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 3,877,308 times
Reputation: 957
Oh, and Neil, I want you to think about one more thing: Bill Clinton proposed an even more dramatic health care plan. Single payer, etc... Sure it went down in flames, but it certainly didn't involve death threats and people with AR-15s. According to the Secret Service there have been more CREDIBLE threats against Obama than any other president since they've been keeping records. Now, given that Clinton proposed something even more radical than Obama has. And he too was a Democrat coming in after a long-term Republican. Surely, surely Clinton should've had far more death threats, but it simply wasn't so.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,117,786 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Oh, and Neil, I want you to think about one more thing: Bill Clinton proposed an even more dramatic health care plan. Single payer, etc... Sure it went down in flames, but it certainly didn't involve death threats and people with AR-15s. According to the Secret Service there have been more CREDIBLE threats against Obama than any other president since they've been keeping records. Now, given that Clinton proposed something even more radical than Obama has. And he too was a Democrat coming in after a long-term Republican. Surely, surely Clinton should've had far more death threats, but it simply wasn't so.
I never thought about that. Great points!
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,844 posts, read 14,527,425 times
Reputation: 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Neil, find one place in my post where I said the opposition was race based, just one. I said no such thing, and you can't argue my points based on what I said, please don't bother to address me at all.
So you're going to do exactly what you say you disklike. Fine. Feel free to put me on your ignore list.

Here is your quote unedited where you mention "xenophobia" and that it's "who he is and what he represents that's causing the uproar." You then go on to mention "Would Obama have been better received as 'native born' black man? Probably not. For many, being an 'exotic Negro' is what made him palatable in the first place."

You brought culture, race, and color into the discussion. So please don't act so self righteous. If you state something, either explain it better or defend it. If I misunderstood you, then help me understand what I missed. Instead you just want to take your bat and ball and go home. I won't address your comments again, because that's what you want anyway, and I'm done with this thread which has run its course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Frankly I don't think it's healthcare or his economic policies. After all, on the economy he's done very little differently from what Bush did. They're shoveling money in because those who've studied the Great Depression believe that it was caused by a too tight money policy. Yes? No? As near as I can tell no one has an effing clue. As for as the healthcare plan, I have yet to hear anyone opposed to the plan who seem to actually have any idea as to what is actually IN the plan.

No, unfortunately, as much as it pains me to say this, I think it's Obama, who he is and what he represents that's causing the uproar. He's totally different in many ways than any previous president we've had, and that's outside the obvious differences. Americans can be amazingly (and alarmingly) xenophobic, having a president who's actually lived in INDONESIA and has Indonesian and Kenyan close relatives is a scary thing to them. Many couldn't find either country on a map and know nothing about them except that they are foreign.

As much as I love my country I know that we don't have a great record with that which we designate as 'foreign.' Would Obama have been better received as 'native born' black man? Probably not. For many, being an 'exotic Negro' is what made him palatable in the first place. Bottom line is, the man is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I guess he'll just have to ignore the crazies, at least when they don't have an AR-15.
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Old 09-07-2009, 10:38 PM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,190 posts, read 29,597,974 times
Reputation: 5091
Play nice, folks.
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