Tyler Perry... (Atlanta, White, Payne: sales, salary, cost)

[RoslynHolcomb]

Considering that most of the writers on House of Payne were black men I think saying that I'm biased against black men is somewhat bizarre. Am I biased in favor of writers over those who would seek to exploit us? Most assuredly. I'm unapologetically pro-labor. Perry probably located his studio here so he could employ anti-union scabs. I don't think that benefits Atlanta, and most assuredly doesn't benefit writers. So why on earth would I feel positive towards him?

Originally Posted by MisterNY

Crab in the bucket mentality, or anti-black men sentiments again, Roslyn? ...I see you're back to your old self.....

It's easy to call him a no talent hack, when you are not capable of doing 1/10th of what he does (not that anyone reads your books ). Again, I'm no black man trying to defend him (so that argument goes out the window).

[mike929]

Originally Posted by straightfromatown

It depends on what you consider talent. His movies seem to be the same thing over and over again. The stories are unoriginal, often copies from older work. Despite that, people like them. Every time I go to the movies and see a long line of black people waiting to go in I always think to myself "must be another Tyler Perry movie" and sure enough it is. He is very successful and knows his market, but I don't consider that talent. I don't think his movies really leave an impact on people or will be remembered in the future. It's the same as the people who make the same SAW, Rush Hour, or crappy action movie over and over again. They understand the market and deliver the same thing over and over again with slight variations. It's easy-to-please horror fans who let the SAW movies continue just like its undemanding black people who let the TP movies continue. Most probably just view it as entertainment and don't care if it is significant or memorable, but I think it's fair to say that these types of films don't require the talent that memorable movies like Malcolm X or The Color Purple do.

Well I think his movies are significant and memorable. Are they getting predictable, I would have to say yes. So marketing his movies to blacks is not talent? I don't even understand that statement. Is it because we have found a new black producer willing to show black life on screen that you are saying he isn't talented? I'm sure there are plenty of people that can connect to his films through their own life struggles and issues, so to them i'm sure his movies hit home. TP is just now getting on top of the game and can start calling his own shots and with that maybe we will see growth and diversity in his movies. As for the talent I think it is fine and on par with any other good movie. And yes I liked Spike Lee's Malcom X and Steven Speilberg directed Color Purple ( to which some say never got it's just deserve ). One thing is certain with all of TP's success doors that were shut may now open to other talented black producers therefore increasing movie diversity. Even the doors that were shut to TP when he wanted to do it his way.

[mike929]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

Considering that most of the writers on House of Payne were black men I think saying that I'm biased against black men is somewhat bizarre. Am I biased in favor of writers over those who would seek to exploit us? Most assuredly. I'm unapologetically pro-labor. Perry probably located his studio here so he could employ anti-union scabs. I don't think that benefits Atlanta, and most assuredly doesn't benefit writers. So why on earth would I feel positive towards him?

I have no idea about writer unions and all of that. But does everything have to be in Hollywood or California??

[RoslynHolcomb]

One thing is certain with all of TP's success doors that were shut may now open to other talented black producers therefore increasing movie diversity. Even the doors that were shut to TP when he wanted to do it his way.

See, here's the thing, no they're not open to diversity. Are they open to people who want to make Tyler Perry type films, to follow his 'formula?' Most assuredly, but to people who want to make real movies? His success actually slammed the door even tighter against them. And why wouldn't it be? Tyler Perry makes money for the Hollywood AND confirms the worst of what they wanted to believe about black people in the first place: That we are a bunch of ignorant buffoons who only want to see coonery and clowning. You can't beat it, his movie confirms white supremacy AND makes them a profit. Why on earth would they do anything else? Much like the success of Shaft spawned a whole series of blaxploitation films in the 70s, Perry's success will spawn a whole stream of Madea clones. Yeah, we've come a long way baby.

Is marketing his movies to blacks talent? I have no idea, I'm not judging the man's marketing abilities. I'm judging his abilities as a filmmaker and God help us all as a director. The films suck, no ifs ands and buts about it. But of course, he's got melanin and a penis and for some black people that's all that's required to have our unswerving support. So we get exactly what we deserve.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Originally Posted by mike929

I have no idea about writer unions and all of that. But does everything have to be in Hollywood or California??

Everything isn't done in Hollywood or California. A significant number of tv shows are shot in Vancouver and of course, NYC. What does have to be present is protection by labor unions. If one production company is allowed to get away with scabbing and scamming the talent all of them would do it. That's why the unions came into play in the first place. The Tyler Perry formula is a deadly one in altogether too many ways for my comfort.

[jali887]

Two words> Black Exploitation

[Rockmama]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

And therein lies the problem with Mr. Perry. His success means that there is less opportunity for filmmakers who actually produce decent cinema, much as the presence of so-called street-lit makes it more difficult to get actual literature published. Hollywood loves a formula, and now they know that all you have to do is throw a black man in a wig and bring in a parade of stereotypes and coonery and of course, some good old time religion and black folk will show up in droves. The problem is, that's what they were producing for us seventy years ago. The times they are a-changing.

That's not really true that it leaves less opportunity for more serious artists. His niche/genre/whatever-you-call-it is what people like to watch. He's doing what he does and he's good at it. It's not his fault people like it. It's been that way for a long time now: You produce art that falls outside pop culture, and you go indie--and then there's always someone willing to produce good work. It's the same with music and literature.

Now what it DOES leave less opportunity for is MONEY. Take it from an indie musician. You get lots of glory in your own little niche... and get paid with Pabst Blue Ribbon and enough cash to buy some cheeseburgers after the show.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Not quite. See here's the thing. When Hollywood sees something that makes money, they're inclined to produce more of it. There's a greater chance of getting something greenlighted if it's something that's already been successful. I wouldn't say that a run of the mill black romantic comedy like Love and Basketball falls outside of pop culture, but I guarantee you'd have a much more difficult time getting it made now. Any movie with black characters, no matter how mainstream will have even more trouble getting made now. And since Perry has a proclivity for writing, producing and directing all his own movies, it's not like he's creating jobs for anyone else. This is a major fail for Atlanta.

Originally Posted by Rockmama

That's not really true that it leaves less opportunity for more serious artists. His niche/genre/whatever-you-call-it is what people like to watch. He's doing what he does and he's good at it. It's not his fault people like it. It's been that way for a long time now: You produce art that falls outside pop culture, and you go indie--and then there's always someone willing to produce good work. It's the same with music and literature.

Now what it DOES leave less opportunity for is MONEY. Take it from an indie musician. You get lots of glory in your own little niche... and get paid with Pabst Blue Ribbon and enough cash to buy some cheeseburgers after the show.

[Iconographer]

One thing TP has managed to do is to take a story with primarily black characters and themes but also manage to draw in white audiences. That is arguably unprecedented (with the possible exception of Waiting to Exhale).

[Rockmama]

Is this really unique to black artists? Hollywood puts out tons of "white" crap movies because people pay to see them. Dude Where's My Car comes to mind :-) and there's tons of "white" crap music being produced, too. Nickelback comes to mind. I've always thought it makes me more proud to do what I do; it gives me the personal satisfaction that feeds my soul. I guess what I'm saying is that there will always be people who think that stuff is bad--whether or not it's the majority or not--and those are the ones I'm happy to please.

To say that the Tyler Perry machine is a major fail for Atlanta, or a step back for black culture is a little harsh. He's doing well for himself. Doesn't that make him a role model? His stuff MAY be silly, but it's all done in fun. He's not hurting anyone with his silly stuff. And even though he writes, produces and directs his own stuff doesn't mean he has no staff. But it's not really about what jobs he's creating in Atlanta--that's not his responsibility, nor is it any artist's responsibility. He's pleasing his audience, just like you or I aim to do.