Why does Atlanta get a bum rap on "sprawl?" (Mableton: apartment complex, motels)

[bizchick86]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

Memorial Drive isn't like this as you get closer to and in the city...but it's not a pretty sight out around the 285 interchange, both inside and outside the Perimeter. I must say that when you get off of Memorial there are some decent neighborhoods and A LOT of residential. I interviewed at a school off of Memorial once, and I was pleasantly surprised at the nice homes and decent-looking neighborhoods that were located just a block from Memorial.

I'm guessing that the Memorial Drive inner-ring corridor will eventually draw some attention. There are many of those areas around Atlanta (and most large cities) that have been neglected and basically left for dead, while the suburbs have exploded with growth and development. Metropolitan Parkway, Moreland Avenue, etc. are in similar shape...busy with traffic and run-down/outdated/forgotten developments.

As mentioned in another post, Atlanta is a child of the era in which it grew. Certainly we can blame the city for its sprawl, but what about the Federal government for promoting and pushing for these highway projects? And what about the numerous Atlanta neighborhoods that defended their communities by protesting highway development?

The other element to this, which has not been discussed much although I touched on it earlier in the thread, is just what a mess some close-minded thinking and prejudices create. All over the country, highway projects served as a medium for many white families to leave city cores during integration. That same close-minded thinking has blocked transit initiatives in GA. And it is what led to the rapid growth of Cobb and Gwinnett and abandonment of the Stone Mountain, Clarkston, Decatur suburbs (and the abandoned strip malls as you observe).

There is a latent racial undertone in all of this that is enhancing the city's sprawl. If you hear most denouncements of the City of Atlanta it is often laced in racial stereotypes and ignorance.

I feel the only way this can change is by more progressive minded folks moving to the city and creating a demand for employment opportunities in the city (as most of the jobs have been displaced to the suburbs) and making more demands for urbanity, in the model that, of course, is characteristic of Atlanta and not some Mid-Atlantic/New England carbon copy.

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

I wasn't familiar with the in-town section of Memorial until a friend bought a house in Kirkwood (I didn't even know where Kirkwood was back then). It was on Memorial, and I was really surprised at the nice houses in that area. But further out...man, it's depressing. It must have been decent at some point in time - maybe the 60s?

Actually, Memorial Drive OTP was pretty decent as recently as the early-mid 80's.

There was a hugely popular location of Manuel's Tavern out there, several nice upscale apartment complexes, new retail was still going in, etc.

The downfall happened FAST.

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by johnatl

Actually, Memorial Drive OTP was pretty decent as recently as the early-mid 80's.

There was a hugely popular location of Manuel's Tavern out there, several nice upscale apartment complexes, new retail was still going in, etc.

The downfall happened FAST.

When will it start to make a comeback - if it makes a comeback? I mean, it's not exactly dead...I commented earlier that there are very decent neighborhoods just a block off of Memorial...but the commercial developments are outdated and many of them are either empty or the tentants are pawn shops and the like. I stopped at a decent Kroger on Memorial near 285 once, but was asked for money and even a ride somewhere in the parking lot. I gave neither.

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by bizchick86

As mentioned in another post, Atlanta is a child of the era in which it grew. Certainly we can blame the city for its sprawl, but what about the Federal government for promoting and pushing for these highway projects? And what about the numerous Atlanta neighborhoods that defended their communities by protesting highway development?

The other element to this, which has not been discussed much although I touched on it earlier in the thread, is just what a mess some close-minded thinking and prejudices create. All over the country, highway projects served as a medium for many white families to leave city cores during integration. That same close-minded thinking has blocked transit initiatives in GA. And it is what led to the rapid growth of Cobb and Gwinnett and abandonment of the Stone Mountain, Clarkston, Decatur suburbs (and the abandoned strip malls as you observe).

There is a latent racial undertone in all of this that is enhancing the city's sprawl. If you hear most denouncements of the City of Atlanta it is often laced in racial stereotypes and ignorance.

I feel the only way this can change is by more progressive minded folks moving to the city and creating a demand for employment opportunities in the city (as most of the jobs have been displaced to the suburbs) and making more demands for urbanity, in the model that, of course, is characteristic of Atlanta and not some Mid-Atlantic/New England carbon copy.

I think the above describes many other U.S. cities as well...and most cities have tried unsuccessfully to reverse the trend over the years (urban renewal). Several areas that were practically abandoned for the suburbs have been revived over the years - Grant Park, Old Fourth Ward, East Atlanta, Kirkwood, East Point, etc. The city has also tried to make some progress by demolishing the projects and replacing them with mixed income housing. These efforts have made a big difference in the city over the past few years.

I don't think that it was always racial prejudice that drove white families to the suburbs. In many cases, people were simply driven by fear and a desire for the safety of their families. Atlanta was the murder capital of the U.S. at one point, and crime was REALLY rampant in the city. I'm not sure I would have stayed during those dark years either.

[bizchick86]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

When will it start to make a comeback - if it makes a comeback? I mean, it's not exactly dead...I commented earlier that there are very decent neighborhoods just a block off of Memorial...but the commercial developments are outdated and many of them are either empty or the tentants are pawn shops and the like. I stopped at a decent Kroger on Memorial near 285 once, but was asked for money and even a ride somewhere in the parking lot. I gave neither.

Whenever the metro area addresses poverty in the city, or poverty gets displaced yet somewhere further out. With that, not any time soon.

Those Stone Mountain areas will just become more and more attractive to businesses for poor folks as the city becomes more expensive and more attractive to professionals. There are too many options for professionals now- the numerous suburbs that are on the edges of the metro, i.e. Alpharetta, Lawrenceville, Buford as well as Lithonia, Conyers, etc. and the inner urban core -for Memorial Dr. to ascend any time soon. Unless Dekalb elected officials work on nice affordable homes and business development, which if you look at virtually any major city with blight, is not very popular among the upper class voting population in the county and most certainly will not happen in the near future.

I was raised in one of those "very decent" neighborhoods off of Memorial and it has only been in decline for over two decades. I still feel safe and enjoy living out here, but there's very little business off of Memorial that appeals to me, other than Kool Runnings for the great Jamaican food and the grocery stores.

[bizchick86]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

I think the above describes many other U.S. cities as well...and most cities have tried unsuccessfully to reverse the trend over the years (urban renewal). Several areas that were practically abandoned for the suburbs have been revived over the years - Grant Park, Old Fourth Ward, East Atlanta, Kirkwood, East Point, etc. The city has also tried to make some progress by demolishing the projects and replacing them with mixed income housing. These efforts have made a big difference in the city over the past few years.

I don't think that it was always racial prejudice that drove white families to the suburbs. In many cases, people were simply driven by fear and a desire for the safety of their families. Atlanta was the murder capital of the U.S. at one point, and crime was REALLY rampant in the city. I'm not sure I would have stayed during those dark years either.

I certainly did not say that it was "always racial prejudice." I said that many white families left during the integration era. Whatever the motivation, there was a rapid racial demographic change in the city that led white families to the suburbs and the jobs followed post-segregation, which spurred the poverty and blight of intown neighborhoods.

Nevertheless, fear and concern for safety, as you cite, were often couched in racial terms as well, just as they are now. Further, many realtors helped spur that fear and racially coded this fear for their own benefit.

With any development in the city that seems to be catered towards Atlanta's black citizens these immediate code words come up, even when there is little basis for it.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by johnatl

Actually, Memorial Drive OTP was pretty decent as recently as the early-mid 80's.

There was a hugely popular location of Manuel's Tavern out there, several nice upscale apartment complexes, new retail was still going in, etc.

The downfall happened FAST.

Yes, it was...it was still great in the late 80's/early 90's.

There are many reasons why Memorial OTP fell...the median, business-racism against changing demographics, poor planning, etc.


I do think it can come back, however. The areas around/surrounding Memorial OTP are solidly middle-class.

That corridor use to be a jewel...it was the location of the first-ever Applebee's restaurant.

[johnatl]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

When will it start to make a comeback - if it makes a comeback? I mean, it's not exactly dead...I commented earlier that there are very decent neighborhoods just a block off of Memorial...but the commercial developments are outdated and many of them are either empty or the tentants are pawn shops and the like. I stopped at a decent Kroger on Memorial near 285 once, but was asked for money and even a ride somewhere in the parking lot. I gave neither.

I'm not sure when, but I truly do think it will come back just due to location.

Memorial Drive will be the recipient of our first BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) line. It's already in the works. This is a good thing for the area, imo.

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by bizchick86

I certainly did not say that it was "always racial prejudice." I said that many white families left during the integration era. Whatever the motivation, there was a rapid racial demographic change in the city that led white families to the suburbs and the jobs followed post-segregation, which spurred the poverty and blight of intown neighborhoods.

Nevertheless, fear and concern for safety, as you cite, were often couched in racial terms as well, just as they are now. Further, many realtors helped spur that fear and racially coded this fear for their own benefit.

With any development in the city that seems to be catered towards Atlanta's black citizens these immediate code words come up, even when there is little basis for it.

I think another factor that caused the racial divide was that many of the city's black residents at that time simply could not afford to pick up and move to the suburbs. The ones that could afford it left as well, but the rest stayed out of necessity and had to live in what was left behind.

I didn't mean to imply that you were saying that white flight was always racially motivated. Obviously some of it was, and some of it was fueled by the media and realtors who sensationalized the situation. But I do think that a good bit of it was legitimate fear due to riots and rampant crime in the city, and that fear caused people of all races to leave - if there was any way they could leave.

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by johnatl

I'm not sure when, but I truly do think it will come back just due to location.

Memorial Drive will be the recipient of our first BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) line. It's already in the works. This is a good thing for the area, imo.

I hope so...not all that long ago, Memorial Drive in the city of Atlanta was hopeless-looking. It has changed tremendously in the past few years. Maybe that trend will move further and further out.

I was truly amazed with the homes and neighborhoods off of Memorial further out toward 285. From the looks of the businesses in that corridor, I expected slums. What a surprise!