10 Things that must happed for Atlanta to be considered a "World City" (Dallas: house, to buy)

[bgNCATL]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

How is someone jealous over Atlanta. That is really silly. I am not a fan of Atlanta but I do enjoy the city when I visit. Its a lot more exciting than Nashville or other places on that teir. I use to get into conversation with my family about how good their lives are in their city vs how bad it is in mine. That's silly. A place is a great place if that's where you want to be.

When someone makes a statement about they hate to drive through a city and it has nothing to do with traffic, that tells me that they are jealous. How can someone from Augusta, Athens or Charlotte say that Atlanta is boring? You see what I'm saying? I'm not downing these cities, but when I here these comment from someone; I already know what it is.

By the way, Nashville is not in the same teir as Atlanta. None of the cities are except Houston and Dallas.

[JakilaTheHun]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

I'm not 'blaming' you for anything...sheesh

Yes, you did.

You should start holding yourself accountable for your own words.

Your claim was that criticizing Atlanta's sprawl because I live in NoVa is like 'the pot calling the kettle black.' The implicit assumption in that comment is that I'm somehow responsible for DC's sprawl. If you did not wish to make that (completely ridiculous) assumption, you should not have expressed things in the way you chose.

Additionally, there's a good chance I will be living in Atlanta again in 2010.

I just find it amusing that you're so quick to make comments about Atlanta being so 'suburban' as if it is in a class by itself in this regard...and you do so while sitting in a massive sea of Washington DC suburbia.

Here's the issue --- you hold an emotional attachment to Atlanta and seem to be "harmed" by criticism of the city's issues. This is a poor and unconstructive mentality. It's alright to have pride about your city, but mindless Patriotism very rarely results in good. To improve somewhere and make it better, you have to be willing to compliment the positive, criticize the negative, and offer suggestions for improvement.

*YOU* are the one who interprets comments about Atlanta's sprawl to suggest that other American cities don't have issues. Not me. I never said "Atlanta is the only major city with sprawl issues."

I really don't get why Atlanta gets this rep...the truth is that there is little difference between our city and most American cities on this score.

There are other American cities with terrible sprawl problems --- Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles, and Washington DC to name a few --- but Atlanta is without a doubt, one of the worst. I'd say it's easily among the five worst and possibly among the three worst. Much of Georgia's major infrastructural issues (such as the water problem) are related to Atlanta's sprawl.

You can stick your head in the sand, or you can admit that Atlanta has some issues with sprawl.

[LovinDecatur]

Originally Posted by JakilaTheHun

Yes, you did.

You should start holding yourself accountable for your own words.

Your claim was that criticizing Atlanta's sprawl because I live in NoVa is like 'the pot calling the kettle black.' The implicit assumption in that comment is that I'm somehow responsible for DC's sprawl. If you did not wish to make that (completely ridiculous) assumption, you should not have expressed things in the way you chose.

Additionally, there's a good chance I will be living in Atlanta again in 2010.

Here's the issue --- you hold an emotional attachment to Atlanta and seem to be "harmed" by criticism of the city's issues. This is a poor and unconstructive mentality. It's alright to have pride about your city, but mindless Patriotism very rarely results in good. To improve somewhere and make it better, you have to be willing to compliment the positive, criticize the negative, and offer suggestions for improvement.

*YOU* are the one who interprets comments about Atlanta's sprawl to suggest that other American cities don't have issues. Not me. I never said "Atlanta is the only major city with sprawl issues."


There are other American cities with terrible sprawl problems --- Houston, Dallas, Los Angeles, and Washington DC to name a few --- but Atlanta is without a doubt, one of the worst. I'd say it's easily among the five worst and possibly among the three worst. Much of Georgia's major infrastructural issues (such as the water problem) are related to Atlanta's sprawl.

You can stick your head in the sand, or you can admit that Atlanta has some issues with sprawl.

No what that statement meant was that it should be apparent to you that 'sprawl' (God, I'm getting sick of that word) exists in your backyard as well as mine. Atlanta 'being one of the worst' is entirely conjectural...I've had to negotiate the hellish DC commute countless times...no picnic there, as well you know.
I take nothing personal in this forum and do not feel 'harmed' in any way...that Heaven I'm not that thin-skinned.
Yes, of course I have an emotional attachment to this city, and do not deny the issues associated with it. But I've also lived in NYC, DC and the Miami area, so it's not like I don't have a basis for comparison...and IMO Atlanta stacks up pretty well.
Sorry if my comments make you uncomfortable, but if I see a comment that I feel mischaracterizes Atlanta, I speak up...and will continue to.

[JakilaTheHun]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

I take nothing personal in this forum and do not feel 'harmed' in any way...that Heaven I'm not that thin-skinned.

You seem to make a lot of passive-aggressive attacks that suggest the very opposite.

Either way, this conversation is over.

[LovinDecatur]

Originally Posted by JakilaTheHun

You seem to make a lot of passive-aggressive attacks that suggest the very opposite.

Either way, this conversation is over.

Darn tootin' it is...I'm tired of your putting words in my mouth and misinterpreting my statements. Are you always this obtuse?

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by JakilaTheHun

You seem to make a lot of passive-aggressive attacks that suggest the very opposite.

Either way, this conversation is over.

Lovin Decatur doesn't need me to defend her, but I do want to point out that she is one of the wittiest, smartest, most astute commenters here in all of CD. Take a minute and read thru some of her other posts.

I totally agree with her. If you have an aversion to sprawl, then move closer in to town for goodness sake. Sprawl is everywhere. We are no longer an agrarian society, if you want a job in a major metro area, you are going to deal with it.

I too was struck with the hypocrisy of your statements about Atlanta's sprawl when you live an an area as equally (if not moreso) "sprawlly" than Atlanta.

And, this might not sit well with you, but if you choose to live in Alpharetta and work inside the perimeter OR live in Fairfax, VA and work inside the beltway, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

[noah]

I will second this. Lovin Decatur is very knowledgeable on Atlanta and adds a great deal to this community. Her info is invaluable on many topics on this board.

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Lovin Decatur doesn't need me to defend her, but I do want to point out that she is one of the wittiest, smartest, most astute commenters here in all of CD. Take a minute and read thru some of her other posts.

I totally agree with her. If you have an aversion to sprawl, then move closer in to town for goodness sake. Sprawl is everywhere. We are no longer an agrarian society, if you want a job in a major metro area, you are going to deal with it.

I too was struck with the hypocrisy of your statements about Atlanta's sprawl when you live an an area as equally (if not moreso) "sprawlly" than Atlanta.

And, this might not sit well with you, but if you choose to live in Alpharetta and work inside the perimeter OR live in Fairfax, VA and work inside the beltway, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

[JakilaTheHun]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Lovin Decatur doesn't need me to defend her, but I do want to point out that she is one of the wittiest, smartest, most astute commenters here in all of CD. Take a minute and read thru some of her other posts.

I have. Some of them are good. Some of them are lame. Either way, she's wrong here.

Your emotional attachment to her is insignificant because I don't believe people's opinions are right or wrong based on their own personal popularity. I believe logic and reason should rule the day and if her words are worthwhile, they stand on their own, and without defenses of 'how great she is'.

I totally agree with her. If you have an aversion to sprawl, then move closer in to town for goodness sake. Sprawl is everywhere. We are no longer an agrarian society, if you want a job in a major metro area, you are going to deal with it.

Which is about as realistic and intelligent as saying, "if you don't support the war in Iraq, move to France." The problem with your shallow analysis is that ignores the fact that most people are subject to financial and contractual constraints, of which they have no control over. So no, I'm not going to pay $3000 per month to live in urban DC and get the same thing I get in Fairfax for $800 per month.

Other considerations for people are (a) home ownership, (b) job prospects, (c) rental contracts, (d) whims of one's employers, (e) location of family, and (f) location of significant others. Maybe you are wealthy enough so that you don't have to take into account these sorts of practical considerations. In which case, you should pat yourself on the back for your success, but smack yourself upside the head for being so wealthy that you are out of tune with the fundamental realities of most people's lives.

I too was struck with the hypocrisy of your statements about Atlanta's sprawl when you live an an area as equally (if not moreso) "sprawlly" than Atlanta.

It's only "hypocritical" if you have an emotional attachment to a locality and believe that everyone is inextricably connected to their current place of abode. This isn't the Middle Ages, so that belief seems a bit outdated.

And, this might not sit well with you, but if you choose to live in Alpharetta and work inside the perimeter OR live in Fairfax, VA and work inside the beltway, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Once again, you make a major assumption here in your misguided belief that people can magically decide where to live without any sort of practical limitations.

Why does Atlanta have so much sprawl, while Amsterdam has much less of it? Is it because Atlantans love sprawl and Amsterdamians hate it? Or is it because practical considerations and public policies?

You argue the former. I argue the latter.

People often chose to live in far out suburbs because they have little alternative. Some of it is due to public policies. Some of it is due to the fact that Atlanta is "newer" and was largely built in a time when urban planning was out of fashion. This has not been for the better and will come back to bite the region at some point.

[DeaconJ]

I predict that few people will choose to read your novelette...but my suggestion is that you educated yourself on American cities, including Atlanta, before you try to criticize one that you obviously know very little about.

There are SO many cities that sprawl SO much worse than Atlanta, so why are you in this thread trying to convince people of the opposite? Take St. Louis, for instance...I have rarely heard anyone speak of the sprawl in that city, although Greater St. Louis covers 8,600 square miles with a population of 2.8 million - while Atlanta covers 8,300 square miles with a population of 5.5 million. There are several examples of this exact same scenario...so how about you mosey on over to some of those threads and kick your ideas around?

One more thing...Atlanta was a large city LONG before the automobile came into fashion and LONG before urban planning "went out of style". It's the suburbs of Atlanta that grew up during the time of which you speak - not the city. In case you didn't realize it, there is a large city sitting in the midst of suburbia...just like the one you're living in.

[mjtinmemphis]

The issue in St. Louis is totally different. There isn't the issue with clogged expressways that you find in Atlanta. St. Louis is not a boom town with a lot of uncontrolled growth. Third there are some options for urban densified living that you will not find in the atl. (Clayton, ucity maplewood central westend) just to name a few. There are many things to look at other than the total land area vs population. Plus St. Louis grew up to function totally different. And yes people that live there have complained about sprawl for the past 15 years.

Also last time I checked cities like Arlington and alexandria in nova where densified more than the city of atlanta is?

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

I predict that few people will choose to read your novelette...but my suggestion is that you educated yourself on American cities, including Atlanta, before you try to criticize one that you obviously know very little about.

There are SO many cities that sprawl SO much worse than Atlanta, so why are you in this thread trying to convince people of the opposite? Take St. Louis, for instance...I have rarely heard anyone speak of the sprawl in that city, although Greater St. Louis covers 8,600 square miles with a population of 2.8 million - while Atlanta covers 8,300 square miles with a population of 5.5 million. There are several examples of this exact same scenario...so how about you mosey on over to some of those threads and kick your ideas around?

One more thing...Atlanta was a large city LONG before the automobile came into fashion and LONG before urban planning "went out of style". It's the suburbs of Atlanta that grew up during the time of which you speak - not the city. In case you didn't realize it, there is a large city sitting in the midst of suburbia...just like the one you're living in.