Why is Atlanta's population only 500k? (Roswell, Marietta: middle-class, fit in, transplants)

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

Most of the Atlanta metro IS INcorporated...just by other munis...Roswell, Sandy Springs, Marietta, etc. ATL is surrounded by cities whose populations don't show up in stats for the City of Atlanta. Not much likelihood of annexation other than some slight possibilities on the south side---wouldn't expect much change even there.

Um, no it is not!

Unincorporated areas of Atlanta:
East Cobb
West Cobb
Most of Cherokee (especially East Cherokee)
Most of Forsyth
Most of Gwinnett
Most of South Dekalb
Most of Rockdale
Most of South Fulton...
and so on, and so on...

Frankly my dear, you don't really know what you are talking about.

[Cyborg13]

CMSA population based on a July 2008 census estimate:

Atlanta: 5,561,099
Charlotte: 1,701,799
Jacksonville: 1,313,228
This includes the suburbs and unincorporated areas within the MSA.

Population of the city itself (no suburbs):
Jacksonville: 807,815
Charlotte: 687,456
Atlanta: 537,958...right between Tucson and Albuquerque.

Source: www.citypopulation.de

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Cyborg13

CMSA population based on a July 2008 census estimate:

Atlanta: 5,561,099
Charlotte: 1,701,799
Jacksonville: 1,313,228
This includes the suburbs and unincorporated areas within the MSA.

Population of the city itself (no suburbs):
Jacksonville: 807,815
Charlotte: 687,456
Atlanta: 537,958...right between Tucson and Albuquerque.

Source: www.citypopulation.de

(3 * Charlotte) + ~455,000 = Atlanta

(4 * Jacksonville) + ~320,000 = Atlanta

[DeaconJ]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

Most of the Atlanta metro IS INcorporated...just by other munis...Roswell, Sandy Springs, Marietta, etc. ATL is surrounded by cities whose populations don't show up in stats for the City of Atlanta. Not much likelihood of annexation other than some slight possibilities on the south side---wouldn't expect much change even there.

Exactly right...I would say that more of Metro Atlanta is made up of incorporated cities than unincorporated. I may be wrong, but there are an awful lot of incorporated cities throughout the Metro area. At the very least, they surround the city on most sides, leaving comparatively little area for expansion.

Woodstock
Griffin
Stone Mountain
Clarkston
Duluth
Stockbridge
Conyers
Lawrenceville
Douglasville
Covington
Milton
Newnan
Kennesaw
Peachtree City
Fayetteville
Riverdale
Gainesville
Dunwoody
Acworth
Cartersville
East Point
Decatur
Smyrna
McDonough
Snellville
Alpharetta
Johns Creek
College Park
Marietta
Canton
Forest Park
Roswell
Sandy Springs
Carrollton
Norcross
Winder
Union City
Lilburn
Suwanee
Powder Springs
Lithonia
Buford

[10scoachrick]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Um, no it is not!

Unincorporated areas of Atlanta:
East Cobb
West Cobb
Most of Cherokee (especially East Cherokee)
Most of Forsyth
Most of Gwinnett
Most of South Dekalb
Most of Rockdale
Most of South Fulton...
and so on, and so on...

Frankly my dear, you don't really know what you are talking about.

I guess I really didn't say what I wanted to say...Much of the immediate area(of the Atlanta metro) that SURROUNDS the city proper(and would be included in the population stats) IS incorporated.. I'd dare say most folks in Cherokee and Forsyth don't believe they live in "Atlanta"(Rockdale is a pretty good stretch). 'Metro Stats' might now include those areas but as others have mentioned, the 'metro' area of just about any city has fuzzy boundaries.
Much of 'South Fulton'(again, fuzzy boundaries) is OUTSIDE of City of Atl., College Park, Fairburn, Hapeville, Palmetto and Union City??? Could be.. but the City of Atlanta isn't likely to hop over another muni to annex unincorporated areas. Now, a new mayor might make the 'let's all the little cities down here merge as one' debate re-fire...to possibly be annexed into the City of Atlanta or to form one large muni. Stranger things have happened.

The incorporated areas that surround the city include Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Decatur, East Point/Hapeville, Smyrna(gotta give you the 'Vinings could have been sucked up by Atlanta possibility'), Chamblee, Doraville, Tucker, etc.
Just sayin'...folks who wonder why the population is smallish/hasn't grown should realize that MUCH of the 'annexation possibility' area surrounding the city is already incorporated...thus limiting the 'growth' of Atlanta proper.

THAT was my point...so many already incorporated areas surround the city itself...making it hard to 'grow' geographically or population-wise(in terms of actual city population--not metro stats). Hey, when you're sitting on Roswell Rd. in Sandy Springs, trying to get to Chastain(North Fulton) Golf Course, those cars from outside the city limits take up just as much room as the Atlanta vehicles.

To the OP...Atlanta city limits comprises a relatively small area(per the other posts), the city is limited(even if it wants to) in its ability to 'grow' through annexation because of the incorporation already surrounding it(in many areas), and the 'metro' area attracted 10x the population for a wide variety of reasons. My birthplace of Columbia, SC is similar in its growth patterns(albeit on a MUCH smaller scale) and my current home of Austin, TX is experiencing a similar pattern(although there is MUCH undeveloped land within the city of Austin) of growth in incorporated areas surrounding the city proper.

Carry on...

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

Exactly right...I would say that more of Metro Atlanta is made up of incorporated cities than unincorporated. I may be wrong, but there are an awful lot of incorporated cities throughout the Metro area. At the very least, they surround the city on most sides, leaving comparatively little area for expansion.

Woodstock
Griffin
Stone Mountain
Clarkston
Duluth
Stockbridge
Conyers
Lawrenceville
Douglasville
Covington
Milton
Newnan
Kennesaw
Peachtree City
Fayetteville
Riverdale
Gainesville
Dunwoody
Acworth
Cartersville
East Point
Decatur
Smyrna
McDonough
Snellville
Alpharetta
Johns Creek
College Park
Marietta
Canton
Forest Park
Roswell
Sandy Springs
Carrollton
Norcross
Winder
Union City
Lilburn
Suwanee
Powder Springs
Lithonia
Buford

Not true...take a look at the entire Metro Area...

Many ITPers don't realize how unincorporated OTP is...and many parts of ITP are unincorporated as well (Vinings, North Atlanta, most of Brookhaven, most of Druid Hills, Emory, Sage Hill, Briarcliff, Greater Oak Grove, North Decatur, North Druid Hills, Scottdale, Rehoboth, Embry Hills, inner South DeKalb, Gresham Park, etc.)

Moreover, a prime example (really representative of the entire Metro) is the great map of Cobb County that rcsteiner provided on page 1 of this thread.


I feel a lesson in incorporated vs. unincorporated may be coming on (Saintmarks...where are you? "Those That Do Not Know" will attack soon! Need backup ...).

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

I guess I really didn't say what I wanted to say...Much of the immediate area(of the Atlanta metro) that SURROUNDS the city proper(and would be included in the population stats) IS incorporated.. I'd dare say most folks in Cherokee and Forsyth don't believe they live in "Atlanta"(Rockdale is a pretty good stretch). 'Metro Stats' might now include those areas but as others have mentioned, the 'metro' area of just about any city has fuzzy boundaries.
Much of 'South Fulton'(again, fuzzy boundaries) is OUTSIDE of City of Atl., College Park, Fairburn, Hapeville, Palmetto and Union City??? Could be.. but the City of Atlanta isn't likely to hop over another muni to annex unincorporated areas. Now, a new mayor might make the 'let's all the little cities down here merge as one' debate re-fire...to possibly be annexed into the City of Atlanta or to form one large muni. Stranger things have happened.

The incorporated areas that surround the city include Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Decatur, East Point/Hapeville, Smyrna(gotta give you the 'Vinings could have been sucked up by Atlanta possibility'), Chamblee, Doraville, Tucker, etc.
Just sayin'...folks who wonder why the population is smallish/hasn't grown should realize that MUCH of the 'annexation possibility' area surrounding the city is already incorporated...thus limiting the 'growth' of Atlanta proper.

THAT was my point...so many already incorporated areas surround the city itself...making it hard to 'grow' geographically or population-wise(in terms of actual city population--not metro stats). Hey, when you're sitting on Roswell Rd. in Sandy Springs, trying to get to Chastain(North Fulton) Golf Course, those cars from outside the city limits take up just as much room as the Atlanta vehicles.

To the OP...Atlanta city limits comprises a relatively small area(per the other posts), the city is limited(even if it wants to) in its ability to 'grow' through annexation because of the incorporation already surrounding it(in many areas), and the 'metro' area attracted 10x the population for a wide variety of reasons. My birthplace of Columbia, SC is similar in its growth patterns(albeit on a MUCH smaller scale) and my current home of Austin, TX is experiencing a similar pattern(although there is MUCH undeveloped land within the city of Austin) of growth in incorporated areas surrounding the city proper.

Carry on...

Well, early in the thread, it was clarified when talking about Metro Atlanta, yes, most of it is unincorporated.

In terms of city proper and areas close...well, of course, most is incorporated.

And for the record, there are still too many areas (in my opinion) that are ITP and close-in that are unincorporated (see previous post).

And...Cherokee, Forsyth, and the like...definitely Atlanta.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

I guess I really didn't say what I wanted to say...Much of the immediate area(of the Atlanta metro) that SURROUNDS the city proper(and would be included in the population stats) IS incorporated.. I'd dare say most folks in Cherokee and Forsyth don't believe they live in "Atlanta"(Rockdale is a pretty good stretch). 'Metro Stats' might now include those areas but as others have mentioned, the 'metro' area of just about any city has fuzzy boundaries.
Much of 'South Fulton'(again, fuzzy boundaries) is OUTSIDE of City of Atl., College Park, Fairburn, Hapeville, Palmetto and Union City??? Could be.. but the City of Atlanta isn't likely to hop over another muni to annex unincorporated areas. Now, a new mayor might make the 'let's all the little cities down here merge as one' debate re-fire...to possibly be annexed into the City of Atlanta or to form one large muni. Stranger things have happened.

The incorporated areas that surround the city include Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Decatur, East Point/Hapeville, Smyrna(gotta give you the 'Vinings could have been sucked up by Atlanta possibility'), Chamblee, Doraville, Tucker, etc.
Just sayin'...folks who wonder why the population is smallish/hasn't grown should realize that MUCH of the 'annexation possibility' area surrounding the city is already incorporated...thus limiting the 'growth' of Atlanta proper.

THAT was my point...so many already incorporated areas surround the city itself...making it hard to 'grow' geographically or population-wise(in terms of actual city population--not metro stats). Hey, when you're sitting on Roswell Rd. in Sandy Springs, trying to get to Chastain(North Fulton) Golf Course, those cars from outside the city limits take up just as much room as the Atlanta vehicles.

To the OP...Atlanta city limits comprises a relatively small area(per the other posts), the city is limited(even if it wants to) in its ability to 'grow' through annexation because of the incorporation already surrounding it(in many areas), and the 'metro' area attracted 10x the population for a wide variety of reasons. My birthplace of Columbia, SC is similar in its growth patterns(albeit on a MUCH smaller scale) and my current home of Austin, TX is experiencing a similar pattern(although there is MUCH undeveloped land within the city of Austin) of growth in incorporated areas surrounding the city proper.

Carry on...

And Atlanta could still definitely expand greatly but annexing adjacent still-unincorporated areas:

-ITP North DeKalb County
-North Atlanta
-Brookhaven (DeKalb)
-Emory/Druid Hills
-South Fulton (north of Fairburn/Union City, west of College Park, East Point)
-Sandtown
-Vinings
-Six Flags
-Gresham Park
-Inner South DeKalb
-Mountain View Area (Clayton County)
-Intrenchment Creek/Constitution Area

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

Exactly right...I would say that more of Metro Atlanta is made up of incorporated cities than unincorporated. I may be wrong, but there are an awful lot of incorporated cities throughout the Metro area. At the very least, they surround the city on most sides, leaving comparatively little area for expansion.

Assuming that Cobb County is a valid example, look at my map.

The *entire* area of Cobb County that borders the City of Atlanta is currently unincorporated, and that includes the very juicy ITP areas of Cumberland and Vinings.

I suspect your assertion is incorrect, in general, for the areas which border the City of Atlanta. Not that it matters for purposes of this discussion (the State of Georgia apparently has (or had) laws in place making it very hard for incorporated cities to expand at all, and that would have limited the historic expension of the City of Atlanta in any case).

[JPD]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

I guess I really didn't say what I wanted to say...Much of the immediate area(of the Atlanta metro) that SURROUNDS the city proper(and would be included in the population stats) IS incorporated.. I'd dare say most folks in Cherokee and Forsyth don't believe they live in "Atlanta"(Rockdale is a pretty good stretch). 'Metro Stats' might now include those areas but as others have mentioned, the 'metro' area of just about any city has fuzzy boundaries.
Much of 'South Fulton'(again, fuzzy boundaries) is OUTSIDE of City of Atl., College Park, Fairburn, Hapeville, Palmetto and Union City??? Could be.. but the City of Atlanta isn't likely to hop over another muni to annex unincorporated areas. Now, a new mayor might make the 'let's all the little cities down here merge as one' debate re-fire...to possibly be annexed into the City of Atlanta or to form one large muni. Stranger things have happened.

The incorporated areas that surround the city include Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Decatur, East Point/Hapeville, Smyrna(gotta give you the 'Vinings could have been sucked up by Atlanta possibility'), Chamblee, Doraville, Tucker, etc.
Just sayin'...folks who wonder why the population is smallish/hasn't grown should realize that MUCH of the 'annexation possibility' area surrounding the city is already incorporated...thus limiting the 'growth' of Atlanta proper.

THAT was my point...so many already incorporated areas surround the city itself...making it hard to 'grow' geographically or population-wise(in terms of actual city population--not metro stats). Hey, when you're sitting on Roswell Rd. in Sandy Springs, trying to get to Chastain(North Fulton) Golf Course, those cars from outside the city limits take up just as much room as the Atlanta vehicles.

To the OP...Atlanta city limits comprises a relatively small area(per the other posts), the city is limited(even if it wants to) in its ability to 'grow' through annexation because of the incorporation already surrounding it(in many areas), and the 'metro' area attracted 10x the population for a wide variety of reasons. My birthplace of Columbia, SC is similar in its growth patterns(albeit on a MUCH smaller scale) and my current home of Austin, TX is experiencing a similar pattern(although there is MUCH undeveloped land within the city of Austin) of growth in incorporated areas surrounding the city proper.

Carry on...

Sorry to nit-pick, but Tucker is UNincorporated.

If you look at the city limits of the places that ARE incorporated, such as Decatur, Lawrenceville, Lilburn, Snellville, etc. you see that they are very small portions of the areas that "call themselves" Decatur, Lawrenceville, etc.

So, even though that are zillions of cities in the Metro Atlanta area, that can be misleading as the actual city limits in many cases are fairly small areas.