Renaming MARTA Stations (Atlanta, Marietta, Decatur: hotel, train, stadium)
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No, it wasn't One Alliance Center...it was two towers that were about 20 or so floors each and were right next to each other. I remember that when you drive you'd take 400 until it dead ends and then just keep going straight for a little ways...anyway, the buses were much better as I've been saying all along.
So, since the train didn't work well for you, it doesn't work well for anyone?
That's simply preposterous.
The fact is Downtown is EXTREMELY well served by rail with five stations (arguably seven stations if you could Vine City and King memorial). Midtown is VERY well served by rail with four stations. Decatur is EXTREMELY well served by rail with three stations. Buckhead is pretty well served by rail with three stations. The "world's busiest airport" couldn't be easier to get to on rail.
The East line does a good job serving the east intown neighborhoods. The South line does a good job serving the south intown neighborhoods. I can't speak for the north or west lines since I almost never have a reason to use them.
No, it wasn't One Alliance Center...it was two towers that were about 20 or so floors each and were right next to each other. I remember that when you drive you'd take 400 until it dead ends and then just keep going straight for a little ways...anyway, the buses were much better as I've been saying all along.
How is this different than any other city aside from New York which in many places the same is true too?
Trains will never take you to the door step of every where you need to go in any city. Subway trains are meant to move large amounts of people over large distances. Buses and trolleys are meant to move smaller amounts of people shorter distances. Walking, taxis and shuttles also fill in the gap. In other words: using public transit is not like using a car. You will be required to put some work in to get where you are going.
Just because the last mile of your trip required a connection with a bus doesn't mean the trains are inefficient. Quite the opposite actually, especially if your trip included travelling from the other end of the city.
In your indignation, did it ever occur to you that Woodruff Park is smack dab in the middle of Five Points? It seems you have no idea what Five Points is...
No, it's at one end of it. Five Points is just the appearance of 5 streets converging on a spot. That's it. No big deal. Underground or Woodruff Park are more meaningful. Besides, it's still about a block to go from Five Points Station to Five Points. And when you're there, you can't help but think, "you mean for this they named a station?" Five Points as a landmark is a huge disappointment. If it weren't for the Coca-Cola sign, it would be devoid of any interest.
No, it's at one end of it. Five Points is just the appearance of 5 streets converging on a spot. That's it. No big deal. Underground or Woodruff Park are more meaningful. Besides, it's still about a block to go from Five Points Station to Five Points. And when you're there, you can't help but think, "you mean for this they named a station?" Five Points as a landmark is a huge disappointment. If it weren't for the Coca-Cola sign, it would be devoid of any interest.
Really, that's Five Points. the convergence of Marietta Street, Decatur Street, Edgewood Avenue, and both sides of Peachtree (one side was renamed to Peachtree). Nothing but an intersection. An orientation point like The Big Chicken.
Even the city doesn't recognize it as a district or sub-area
How is this different than any other city aside from New York which in many places the same is true too?
Trains will never take you to the door step of every where you need to go in any city. Subway trains are meant to move large amounts of people over large distances. Buses and trolleys are meant to move smaller amounts of people shorter distances. Walking, taxis and shuttles also fill in the gap. In other words: using public transit is not like using a car. You will be required to put some work in to get where you are going.
Just because the last mile of your trip required a connection with a bus doesn't mean the trains are inefficient. Quite the opposite actually, especially if your trip included travelling from the other end of the city.
Sure, but the city of Atlanta itself, the way it's so spread out and sprawly would be better served by a more advanced bus system as opposed to the current incarnation of its subway.
I lived in Boston almost my entire life without ever having to use a bus. Same in the time I was in New York. But all this business about train, transfer, bus, walk...why not just build more stations that are closer to more things? If you can't cut it with your trains (and Atlanta never will have the money or infrastructure in place to be able to do that as well as other cities, it's just the way the town itself is designed, not the fault of MARTA), then just cut out the cancer that's costing too much money and replace it with something more efficient.
I lived in Atlanta for a few years and couldn't find any use for the public transportation system, aside from the buses. The subway stations drop you off miles away from your destination, so why not just run buses there anyway?
So if you were trying to get from Buckhead to the Airport, you'd want to take a BUS the whole way?? Short of having a dedicated Buckhead-Airport commuter bus, this would not be a viable option. You can't have a bus that goes from Buckhead to the Airport, making 50 stops along the way. it would take three hours. The train does that run in 25 minutes, even during rush hour.
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If you work in Buckhead and take the train to the "Buckhead" station, you're either going to have to walk a half hour to get anyplace or take a bus. That's absurd. Cities like New York and Boston have very useful subway systems that have many stations that are within walking distance to virtually anything, those cities benefit greatly from their subway service.
A subway system the size of NYC's would still barely scratch the surface of Atlanta transit. The entire NYC subway system fits easily inside the perimeter of Atlanta, still leaving large swaths of that area untouched. And there are plenty of areas in NYC that you have to walk 10-15 minutes from to get to a subway...or you transfer to a bus like most people. Very few people would take a bus from the north end of Central Park to Hell's Kitchen. They'd take a train to 42nd Street or 34th Street and hop a bus from there.
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I worked in Buckhead and would take the train from North Springs and even at 7:30-8:30 (Super peak time for any other system in the world), MARTA was almost entirely deserted, even while GA400 was piled up with some of the worst traffic in the country (literally), people still CHOSE to drive, because they know MARTA probably isn't going to help them one bit in arriving to their final destination because it's 10 miles from the damn station.
Yes, that's why we need more trains, not more vehicles on the road... Your solution will only increase congestion. A bus moves much slower, and makes far more stops than a car, thus slowing things down. True, it will take some cars off the road, but not enough to make a huge difference in street congestion.
I've ridden the train from the airport at 11:00pm and it was PACKED. And pretty much every time I ride it in the mornings to the Airport, it is packed with business workers. Standing room only. So I guess we've each had different experiences.
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It's overpriced too...$2.00 per trip. New York is only $2.25 and has a much more efficient system. Boston is $1.70 and makes MARTA looks like a portable roller coaster at a carnival.
It's still a train taking you from one place to another, with similar distance. Same cost. It doesn't cost less to drive from here to Charlotte than it does from here to Valdosta, but you'll get a lot more in Charlotte.
Boston's subway system is still about as spread out as Atlanta's, except in the city center and along the western corridor. Go even 1.5 miles south or north of the city center, and you will likely be walking at least a mile to get to your train. EDIT: This is wrong, I was looking at a bad map. But it still doesn't cover nearly the amount of ground an Atlanta subway would need.
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I know it will be a blow to Atlantans who like to think they've evolved past being a little dot on the map in South, but the city will really be better off without it. Buses are a much better bet. Check out the Silver Line in Boston...it's buses that have a dedicated lane and even their own little tunnels in some places. It's lightning fast and highly efficient and drops you off fairly close to where you need to be. Atlanta should look into it.
Are you kidding me? Boston's Silver line is very limited in it's route, so I'm not sure what you are comparing here. It's entire route length is equivalent to getting from Lenox Mall to the 75/85 split or from the Airport to just north of Hapeville, about 6 miles. How can that be compared to something that could replace a 20 mile or more subway route that takes 25 minutes???
I just did a "plan your trip" from the Airport to Dudley Square. Using the various bus lines, it's about a 90-minute trip. Using train and bus is about 60 minutes. Using the Silver bus line is about 45 minutes. This is for a SIX MILE TRIP.
Buses are a great COMPLIMENT to a subway, but most certainly not a replacement. They are much, much slower. They add to street congestion and noise. They pollute a lot.
[quote=waronxmas;20112466]In other words: using public transit is not like using a car. You will be required to put some work in to get where you are going.[quote]
Sure, but the city of Atlanta itself, the way it's so spread out and sprawly would be better served by a more advanced bus system as opposed to the current incarnation of its subway.
I lived in Boston almost my entire life without ever having to use a bus. Same in the time I was in New York. But all this business about train, transfer, bus, walk...why not just build more stations that are closer to more things? If you can't cut it with your trains (and Atlanta never will have the money or infrastructure in place to be able to do that as well as other cities, it's just the way the town itself is designed, not the fault of MARTA), then just cut out the cancer that's costing too much money and replace it with something more efficient.
Boston is a really small (in sq miles) city, small enough that you can have subways do a lot of the work for you. In Philly, where I lived for like 10 years, we did have the subway, but actually, many people there use COMMUTER RAIL LINES.
It takes a LOT of work to put in new rail stations, and with the way MARTA stations work, they can take up a LOT of space as well. We're trying to do that now with the Beltline Project, but that's going to take a while. There are proposals to put rails out to Wesley Chapel/I-20, over to Emory/CDC/Druid Hills, etc, but we have to wait to see if the proposals even have the possibility of maybe even trying to attempt to see the light of day.
You're right, we need more buses, but putting more buses on the streets are going to be much less efficient. Where I live, the #6 (Emory Univ./Little 5 Pts/ Druid Hills/ that area around Lindbergh lol) runs buses every 15 mins rush hr, but they ALL get stuck in that horrendous Briarcliff Rd/Clifton Corridor traffic. So, no, more buses would NOT help always.
Also, i know for a fact that if people were tasked with getting across ATLANTA with just bus transfers, people would stop riding, point blank. Some routes run every 15, some every 20, 30 or like a few, once a hr, if that.
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That's simply preposterous.
Your solution will only increase congestion. A bus moves much slower, and makes far more stops than a car, thus slowing things down. True, it will take some cars off the road, but not enough to make a huge difference in street congestion.
