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Old 04-23-2010, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
969 posts, read 1,663,541 times
Reputation: 623

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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah View Post
New transportation bill make a good start at least | Jay Bookman

House Bill 277 does not do that, or at least not all of that. All money raised in the metro region will stay in the region, but the region’s authority to decide its own transportation future is significantly restricted.

Under the bill, a “regional roundtable” of county commissioners and mayors will compile a list of transportation projects to submit to voters for their approval. However, the roundtable’s list can include only those projects previously approved by the state transportation planning director, who is an appointee of the governor.

In other words, metro Atlanta and other regions can pick only projects that the next governor will allow us to pick.

The bill also forbids metro Atlanta from using even a dime of revenue from its regional transportation tax to help MARTA, the financially distressed core of regional public transit, meet its operating needs.
This is the part that really makes me mad:

"The bill also forbids metro Atlanta from using even a dime of revenue from its regional transportation tax to help MARTA, the financially distressed core of regional public transit, meet its operating needs.
The Augusta region is free to use regional funds to help Augusta Public Transit; the Savannah region can support Chatham Area Transit financially. The Atlanta metro region can even use regional dollars to help Gwinnett County Transit or Cobb Community Transit.
But it cannot help MARTA."

Why?! I just don't get it.
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Old 04-23-2010, 10:56 AM
 
2,683 posts, read 5,206,594 times
Reputation: 940
Agree but it does say for operating only so capital improvements should be ok, and how about how the city/county doesn't get to decide completely what they spend the money on (Why is that a state function when the taxes are local).



Quote:
Originally Posted by mike7586 View Post
This is the part that really makes me mad:

"The bill also forbids metro Atlanta from using even a dime of revenue from its regional transportation tax to help MARTA, the financially distressed core of regional public transit, meet its operating needs.
The Augusta region is free to use regional funds to help Augusta Public Transit; the Savannah region can support Chatham Area Transit financially. The Atlanta metro region can even use regional dollars to help Gwinnett County Transit or Cobb Community Transit.
But it cannot help MARTA."

Why?! I just don't get it.
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,846 posts, read 14,878,189 times
Reputation: 3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
I guess we will have to wait until they get "diverse" enough to want to vote for good transit plans.
Yeah, because we all know that all those racist suburbanites would only vote no because they want to keep minorities out, right? We need some "diversity" to address all those crackers, right?

Another quality comment on these forums.
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,520 posts, read 4,257,831 times
Reputation: 2281
This is the part of Jay Bookman's transportation bill article that I found REALLY interesting:

"The Augusta region is free to use regional funds to help Augusta Public Transit; the Savannah region can support Chatham Area Transit financially. The Atlanta metro region can even use regional dollars to help Gwinnett County Transit or Cobb Community Transit.
But it cannot help MARTA."

I swear, it never ends. It's like Wile E. Coyote who is always on the ever elusive chase for the Roadrunner, or Don Quixote forever tilting at windmills.

Why are these friggin' conservative lawmakers so obsessed with pulling a "Brokeback Mountain" style act on Marta and Metro Atlanta? Do they not realize that the 1960s is over? It's borderlining madness the way we Atlantans are forced to replay this drama over and over again.

Can't wait for the usual apologists to come in with the predictable flippant and oh-so totally inane remarks. Typical Georgia, I swear...



Quote:
Originally Posted by noah View Post
New transportation bill make a good start at least | Jay Bookman

House Bill 277 does not do that, or at least not all of that. All money raised in the metro region will stay in the region, but the region’s authority to decide its own transportation future is significantly restricted.

Under the bill, a “regional roundtable” of county commissioners and mayors will compile a list of transportation projects to submit to voters for their approval. However, the roundtable’s list can include only those projects previously approved by the state transportation planning director, who is an appointee of the governor.

In other words, metro Atlanta and other regions can pick only projects that the next governor will allow us to pick.

The bill also forbids metro Atlanta from using even a dime of revenue from its regional transportation tax to help MARTA, the financially distressed core of regional public transit, meet its operating needs.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 04-23-2010 at 10:08 PM..
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:12 AM
 
1,480 posts, read 1,659,692 times
Reputation: 919
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
This is the part of Jay Bookman's transportation bill article that I found REALLY interesting:

"The Augusta region is free to use regional funds to help Augusta Public Transit; the Savannah region can support Chatham Area Transit financially. The Atlanta metro region can even use regional dollars to help Gwinnett County Transit or Cobb Community Transit.
But it cannot help MARTA."

I swear, it never ends. It's like Wile E. Coyote who is always on the ever elusive chase for the Roadrunner, or Don Quixote forever tilting at windmills.

Why are these friggin' conservative lawmakers so obsessed with pulling a "Brokeback Mountain" style act on Marta and Metro Atlanta? Do they not realize that the 1960s is over? It's borderlining madness the way we Atlantans are forced to replay this drama over and over again.

Can't wait for the usual apologists to come in with the predictable flippant and oh-so totally inane remarks. Typical Georgia, I swear...
I suppose that language could be in there for political reasons but I actually don't think this is nearly as big a deal as Bookman makes it seem. First of all, they did lift the 50-50 capital-operations requirement on Marta for three years (which should be permanent in my opinion).

More importantly, the object of the bill is only to fund a list of transportation projects. It could still "help" Marta by funding a Marta capital project such as the Memorial Drive BRT they've been planning, if it somehow made the project list. But it won't fund the operational side of Marta or any other transit agency.

As I said before, it remains to be seen if this bill actually changes anything. The state has had about $100 million in federal funds for the Lovejoy commuter line for a while. The hold up has been the fact that there is no mechanism to fund the day-to-day operational expenses and any new transit proposal without an existing transit operator will have the same issue.

For me the bigger problem is that the state appears to have zero interest in giving up complete control of where transportation dollars are spent even those from a "regional" transportation tax.

Last edited by J2rescue; 04-24-2010 at 07:20 AM..
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:48 AM
 
2,683 posts, read 5,206,594 times
Reputation: 940
The thing that upsets me the most is how the State determines if a project can be done with tax dollars raised by a local increase in sales tax. Is this normal, why would the state have control over that, I've never heard of such a thing. If the local populution votes for a sales tax increase to pay for roads, stadium, etc the state should be on the sidelines.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,520 posts, read 4,257,831 times
Reputation: 2281
Well I guess the only reason I'm frustrated about this bill is because of the perception that there is this need to stick it to MARTA and the constituents that it serves.... right down to the most minute of details.

For example, the common argument against a direct state involvement in MARTA from the so-called "fiscal" conservative perspective is that MARTA should be operated as a business, NOT as a social need. I have several problems with this, problems that for whatever reason are either glossed over or completely ignored for the sake of ideology purity:

1. Roads, Police, Firefighters, & the military are considered a social need and not a potential for-profit business

2. Unregulated & unmanaged housing development sprawl prevents ANY ability for a transit agency anywhere, let alone MARTA, from truly being able to operate as a profitable enterprise simply because of a lack of a concentrated, consistent, and captive ridership. Personally, I think that this "profit" excuse is a red-herring; I find it hard to believe that a lot of the ruling party at the Capitol are even able operate a lemonade stand.

3. As Jay Bookman has pointed out, Cobb County Transit, and Savannah's transit are not forced to adhere to the southern conservative so-called "for profit" guidelines; Is there even a 50/50 rule for those agencies?

4. If the potential funding to be raised by the plan are coming from the potential Region(s) where MARTA operates as opposed to the state, then NO state involvement would be necessary

So in this case, Jay Bookman's bonepicking with the State leadership on the MARTA issue is warranted, I'd say. It has nothing to do with political party affiiation as some on here seem to want to suggest....over and over again. This has to with an ages-old mindset that hasn't quite gotten over some targeted losses in southern history.

That mindset continues even to this day; If Georgia and the south can get over that history, it will definitely be a bright new day for the U.S.A. and its future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
I suppose that language could be in there for political reasons but I actually don't think this is nearly as big a deal as Bookman makes it seem. First of all, they did lift the 50-50 capital-operations requirement on Marta for three years (which should be permanent in my opinion).

More importantly, the object of the bill is only to fund a list of transportation projects. It could still "help" Marta by funding a Marta capital project such as the Memorial Drive BRT they've been planning, if it somehow made the project list. But it won't fund the operational side of Marta or any other transit agency.

As I said before, it remains to be seen if this bill actually changes anything. The state has had about $100 million in federal funds for the Lovejoy commuter line for a while. The hold up has been the fact that there is no mechanism to fund the day-to-day operational expenses and any new transit proposal without an existing transit operator will have the same issue.

For me the bigger problem is that the state appears to have zero interest in giving up complete control of where transportation dollars are spent even those from a "regional" transportation tax.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 04-24-2010 at 08:45 AM..
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Old 04-24-2010, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,846 posts, read 14,878,189 times
Reputation: 3510
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Why are these friggin' conservative lawmakers so obsessed with pulling a "Brokeback Mountain" style act on Marta and Metro Atlanta? Do they not realize that the 1960s is over? It's borderlining madness the way we Atlantans are forced to replay this drama over and over again.

Can't wait for the usual apologists to come in with the predictable flippant and oh-so totally inane remarks. Typical Georgia, I swear...
What's with the name calling? WTF is a "brokeback Mountain style act" and what do the 1960s have to do with anything we're discussing?

Why the racist language and constant namecalling? OK...we get it. You hate the suburbs. You obviously feel that all white suburbanites are racists who dislike minorities and anything urban, because those things are connected to minorities, and the only way to change anything is to make the lilly white suburbs more "diverse."

The only problem with that thinking is that most suburbs are not lilly white anymore, and many of the residents came from outside the south and didn't live with or participate in the history of Jim Crow. Many like myself grew up in multi-cultural cities with more diversity than you'll ever know. It seems like you're OK with diversity, provided the "diverse" population agrees with you.
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:16 PM
 
4,433 posts, read 4,413,811 times
Reputation: 3500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
What's with the name calling? WTF is a "brokeback Mountain style act" and what do the 1960s have to do with anything we're discussing?

Why the racist language and constant namecalling? OK...we get it. You hate the suburbs. You obviously feel that all white suburbanites are racists who dislike minorities and anything urban, because those things are connected to minorities, and the only way to change anything is to make the lilly white suburbs more "diverse."

The only problem with that thinking is that most suburbs are not lilly white anymore, and many of the residents came from outside the south and didn't live with or participate in the history of Jim Crow. Many like myself grew up in multi-cultural cities with more diversity than you'll ever know. It seems like you're OK with diversity, provided the "diverse" population agrees with you.
The ultimate straw man
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,520 posts, read 4,257,831 times
Reputation: 2281
So true.

Nowhere in my messages have I said ANYTHING remotely about ANY sort of disdain for "the surburbs." Seriously, are there any projects still existing in Metro Atlanta? Both Fulton AND Dekalb county are FULL of suburbs, with black people like myself living in them, I might add.

But rather than go after my message, the usual accuser in classic southern strategy 101-style chose to focus on some choice words & try to load them up with enough invective in order make my words out to be something that they aren't & create some select motives & intent where there is none. How nakedly dishonest is that?

I have learned over the course of my +1 year membership on city-data that it's pointless to debate with people who use those tactics.



Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
The ultimate straw man
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