Leaders: Light rail could happen by 2019 (Atlanta: vs, pool, suburban)
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That's not really an option for Atlanta. Since we don't have a water port, trains take the place of that. Freight trains run all day, every day with great frequency. Just check out the size of our train yards:
Those 2 may operate on seperate tracks during the bulk of the day (on peak) but overnight , freight will be allowed on LRT lines. Both those freight yards and lines are very busy. Your making excuses in a way for MARTA MARTA needs to do some Freight train yard / line sharing research. Freight will continue to use other tracks while the LRT is in Service usually only 2 tracks are taking out during service hours. Most lines that are in Urban areas here have 2-6 tracks.
Corruption and other things. But aside form the 2nd Avenue Subway , NYC is currently moving very fast in Constructing things. By 2018 we should have 2 New Tunnels and Deep Stations. The Hudson Tunnel & New Deep Penn station is in the first stages of construction. The New East River Tunnels and Grand Central Terminal connection should open in 2014. Both will serve 120-150,000+ daily and transform the Region on both sides of the Hudson. Many people see the Northeast having a Euro Rail / Transit system outside the Bos-Wash Corridor & in the Bos-Wash Corridor a Japanese type system. In about 20 years with all the planned system restorations and expansions. As for Atlanta , it looks very bleak and much of the South. You guys really need to jump on the Transit and Regional Rail express and find ways on doing these projects faster, or face terrible consequences. Your Population is already straining your Freeways and Atlanta is a great example on how adding lanes doesn't solve the problem. It makes it worse. If its that bad now , whats it going to be like in 20 years?
Yeah, but guess what? Those projects were planned in the 90s. So much for that whole "South being slow" thing...
And you're right, adding lanes doesn't solve the problem of congestion and air quality - neither does extending a tunnel to funnel automobile traffic into the heart of the city center.
Those 2 may operate on seperate tracks during the bulk of the day (on peak) but overnight , freight will be allowed on LRT lines. Both those freight yards and lines are very busy. Your making excuses in a way for MARTA MARTA needs to do some Freight train yard / line sharing research. Freight will continue to use other tracks while the LRT is in Service usually only 2 tracks are taking out during service hours. Most lines that are in Urban areas here have 2-6 tracks.
Let me be succinct. This is not the case with Tilford Yard (the first link). It's one of the largest and busiest freight yards in North America and the only one that is a big issue when it comes to the Beltline. And as you can see from the first link above, Tilford has FAR more than 6 tracks. More like 30 to 40 (or more).
Basically it comes down to the following factors.
Do you want to sit in this:
Whilst going through this train yard:
I know I wouldn't and it would be a tough sell to anyone else.
Last edited by waronxmas; 05-09-2010 at 10:59 PM..
Yeah, but guess what? Those projects were planned in the 90s. So much for that whole "South being slow" thing...
And you're right, adding lanes doesn't solve the problem of congestion and air quality - neither does extending a tunnel to funnel automobile traffic into the heart of the city center.
Well aside form the Larger Mega Projects ,alot has happened entire LRT systems built. But the 2 Mega Projects had to wait for funding and there long overdue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas
Let me be succinct. This is not the case with Tilford Yard (the first link). It's one of the largest and busiest freight yards in North America and the only one that is a big issue when it comes to the Beltline. And as you can see from the first link above, Tilford has FAR more than 6 tracks. More like 30 to 40 (or more).
Basically it comes down to the following factors.
Do you want to sit in this:
Whilst going through this train yard:
I know I wouldn't and it would be a tough sell to anyone else.
Honestly as long as your moving at a fast clip or decent speed whats wrong with going through a Freight Yard or next to it. Thats an excuse, Because Lots of Commuter lines in the NE and Midwest do it and no one complains.....if it saves money and doesn't harm anyone , then build it. Thats the problem with some transit agencies they want the route to be scenic and nice looking.....and its time for reality to hit them in the face. I think its the case of Excuses , that's affecting MARTA more then mismanagement
Quote:
Originally Posted by -.-
Quoted post removed by moderator
ATL should model itself more after DC , DC started out small and now look where it is.
Last edited by atlantagreg30127; 05-10-2010 at 09:37 AM..
Honestly as long as your moving at a fast clip or decent speed whats wrong with going through a Freight Yard or next to it. Thats an excuse, Because Lots of Commuter lines in the NE and Midwest do it and no one complains.....if it saves money and doesn't harm anyone , then build it. Thats the problem with some transit agencies they want the route to be scenic and nice looking.....and its time for reality to hit them in the face. I think its the case of Excuses , that's affecting MARTA more then mismanagement
If you don't understand why:
1. It is both an losing and dangerous proposition to send a LRT train through a busy freight yard.
2. It is easier to send a commuter HRT train thorough a freight corridor.
3. Think that it is "mismanagement" that MARTA (or any other entity) wouldn't want to send a city passanger train through a freight yard.
Then,
You should just stop posting on this thread. This has nothing with wanting to make the route "scenic and nice looking". It is all about safety, efficiency, and just plain common sense.
1. It is both an losing and dangerous proposition to send a LRT train through a busy freight yard.
2. It is easier to send a commuter HRT train thorough a freight corridor.
3. Think that it is "mismanagement" that MARTA (or any other entity) wouldn't want to send a city passanger train through a freight yard.
Then,
You should just stop posting on this thread. This has nothing with wanting to make the route "scenic and nice looking". It is all about safety, efficiency, and just plain common sense.
Well I guess i should rephrase , its really off to the side , but still through the yards. The FRA has some wacky rules on how LRT works will Heavy Rail. If Heavy Rail uses the same tracks as Light Rail , the Heavy rail must operate during off peak or during night hours. You usually have to work something out with the company who owns the yard , so you can use the tracks off to the side. Look up, the Newark LRT , Northern Branch line (although it might not say anything about the yard) & NJT RiverLine all run on are planned to run on Heavy Rail lines or yards. Perfect examples in my state , it works out just fine. If it can work here , it can work there.
I'm not even sure that the Beltline is a good idea for it's far northwest portions in Buckhead. Outside of the Collier road/Howell mill area after the train yard, it's an extremely low density area filled with mansions and the type of people that wouldn't take public transportation even if it stopped right underneath their building.
I think a better plan would be for the beltline to go on surface streets at Howell Mill and go through Atlantic Station over the bridge to Arts Center.
I agree with you. If there's any way you can attend one of the Northside study groups/master planning meetings and articulate this concern, I strongly encourage it. I get the impression these are the best outlets for us citizens to direct the planning of the Beltline: Atlanta BeltLine > All Upcoming Events (http://beltline.org/BeltLineCalendar/AllUpcomingEvents/tabid/1748/Default.aspx - broken link)
(I don't see it listed currently, but I think there's a Northside study group meeting planned for the first Monday evening in June.)
One of the points the Beltline folks reiterated during the tour was that part of its goal is not just transit but future development and strategic planning to encourage future density. I totally get the desire to hook up the Beltline with Lindbergh, but I agree with you about some of the Buckhead plans. It's not like the mansion neighborhoods are going to allow for some "affordable housing" developments all of a sudden. I mean, isn't part of the point of Buckhead that's it's completely NOT affordable?
ATL should model itself more after DC , DC started out small and now look where it is.
What you don't know about the history of MARTA and METRO is a LOT.
Both systems were built at the same time, using the same pool of Federal Transit dollars (at Seattle's expense, btw).
The big difference between METRO & MARTA? METRO basically told Virginia & Maryland that the rail was coming, whether they wanted it or not. "Help us plan the routes, but it's coming" was the basic MO. There was MUCH hysteria in the D.C. burbs about this, but it still got built. Having an almost unlimited pool of Federal $$$ has greatly benefitted METRO, otherwise if local matching funds had been required from the start, you would be looking at system much more similar to what we have here (48 miles vs 103 miles). As far as the new Silver Line to Dulles, it has stirred up much of the old anti-rail, anti-anything urban hysteria in Northern Virginia. Take a look at some of the various forums in Northern Virginia for proof of this.
Here, individual Counties were allowed to vote to be a part of the system. The suburban Counties here also experienced hysteria, hence only Fulton & DeKalb (our two core Counties) voted yes. At the same time, the State of Georgia dictated draconian funding and operating rules in regards to MARTA, that METRO has NEVER had to deal with.
Perhaps you need to educate yourself a little more on the dynamics of how things really happened, before condemning us for how things are done "down South."
What you don't know about the history of MARTA and METRO is a LOT.
Both systems were built at the same time, using the same pool of Federal Transit dollars (at Seattle's expense, btw).
The big difference between METRO & MARTA? METRO basically told Virginia & Maryland that the rail was coming, whether they wanted it or not. "Help us plan the routes, but it's coming" was the basic MO. There was MUCH hysteria in the D.C. burbs about this, but it still got built. Having an almost unlimited pool of Federal $$$ has greatly benefitted METRO, otherwise if local matching funds had been required from the start, you would be looking at system much more similar to what we have here (48 miles vs 103 miles). As far as the new Silver Line to Dulles, it has stirred up much of the old anti-rail, anti-anything urban hysteria in Northern Virginia. Take a look at some of the various forums in Northern Virginia for proof of this.
Here, individual Counties were allowed to vote to be a part of the system. The suburban Counties here also experienced hysteria, hence only Fulton & DeKalb (our two core Counties) voted yes. At the same time, the State of Georgia dictated draconian funding and operating rules in regards to MARTA, that METRO has NEVER had to deal with.
Perhaps you need to educate yourself a little more on the dynamics of how things really happened, before condemning us for how things are done "down South."
Not to mention the differences between MARTA and METRO become even smaller when you consider your point along with the fact that the reason why it's ridership is so high is directly releated to the nearly 500,000+ federal jobs in the District. The METRO was built primarily to serve those workers who lived in the suburbs to get to work, and secondarily as a transport method around the city. The same thing happend with BART and MARTA (Though MARTA finally ended up being primarily a city transport system).
If you take away the ridership angle, METRO has far more in common with MARTA than it does say the NYC subway, Philly's Market Street line, or the Chicago L.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl
Here, individual Counties were allowed to vote to be a part of the system. The suburban Counties here also experienced hysteria, hence only Fulton & DeKalb (our two core Counties) voted yes. At the same time, the State of Georgia dictated draconian funding and operating rules in regards to MARTA, that METRO has NEVER had to deal with.
Perhaps you need to educate yourself a little more on the dynamics of how things really happened, before condemning us for how things are done "down South."
Is Atlanta the only major metro to run into this issue due to the actions of its own state government? If so, it would very well BE a "southern" issue, or more to the point a "Georgian" issue. Looks kinda stupid to me regardless...
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MARTA needs to do some Freight train yard / line sharing research. 
Freight will continue to use other tracks while the LRT is in Service usually only 2 tracks are taking out during service hours. Most lines that are in Urban areas here have 2-6 tracks.
Many people see the Northeast having a Euro Rail / Transit system outside the Bos-Wash Corridor & in the Bos-Wash Corridor a Japanese type system. In about 20 years with all the planned system restorations and expansions.
As for Atlanta , it looks very bleak and much of the South. You guys really need to jump on the Transit and Regional Rail express and find ways on doing these projects faster, or face terrible consequences. Your Population is already straining your Freeways and Atlanta is a great example on how adding lanes doesn't solve the problem. It makes it worse. If its that bad now , whats it going to be like in 20 years?
