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Old 05-31-2010, 11:58 PM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,223 posts, read 13,488,109 times
Reputation: 3545

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I found this to be a pretty insightful post (from the thread titled "Population Growth vs. Employment Growth):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
I think a lot of Atlanta's population growth since 2000 has been fueled by both natural disasters and housing crises in nearby states. After the 2004 and 2005 hurricane seasons, many people from Florida and Louisiana moved to Atlanta to get away from them. The housing crisis in Florida also benefited Atlanta to a degree. Conversely, Delta Airlines has shed lots of jobs since declaring bankruptcy in 2001, and many large banks in Atlanta were taken over by other banks.

Basically, Atlanta is sort of becoming a victim of its own success. It has an enviable brand equity, which is why lots of people move there. Unfortunately, the business reality in Atlanta hasn't lived up to the brand equity since 2000, and if this continues, then I expect growth to slow down this coming decade. It won't come to a screeching halt like it has in cities like Phoenix, but if job growth doesn't improve, then the population trends will eventually have to reflect this more closely. It's possible that natural increase and international immigration might be the only components of population growth in Atlanta this decade if job growth continues to lag.
Hopefully Gnutella won't receive any backlash.
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:07 AM
 
4,243 posts, read 4,143,172 times
Reputation: 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
Most people would agree that a grid system is a much easier way to densify than roads that go any which way. And that's exactly my point (about the Buford Highway). Atlanta needs other roadways to take the traffic off of roads like the Buford Highway. The point is, there is not as much connectivity in Atlanta's roadway system, as there is in Houston and Dallas.
straw man, see blow.

Quote:
Why are you posting the metro areas? Texas counties are large so the numbers are skewed. Urban areas are the best way to determine the density of an urban area (and it's what the Atlanta Regional Commission used). If you look at that, Atlanta has 1200+ less people per square mile than Houston and Dallas: http://www.atlantaregional.com/File%...op_Sunbelt.pdf
Quote:
Okay? There are plenty of developments like these in Houston and Dallas. Also, I wouldn't say that what you posted is dense. Most suburban communities in Houston and Dallas are built like that (with how close the homes are to each other).
No this Houston suburan homes
houston - Google Maps

And your can't tell me anything about Dallas I live almost half my life there. This is how there suburban home look like.
Dallas - Google Maps

Dallas - Google Maps

Dallas - Google Maps

and this what you saw.
Atlanta - Google Maps

Atlanta - Google Maps

which is dense! and any but a grid

Quote:
Yeah, the Beltline is a nice project.

And these are nice developments for Atlanta, too. No different than the things you see in Houston or Dallas though. Only difference is, the roadway system in the Texas two are in a more grid-like layout, which makes it more walkable with other developments near it (cohesive unit). It's not that way in Atlanta (for the most part).
And the grid thing dosen't have exist to have density. and The grid isn't walkable if the streets are wide.

Quote:
The point is, Atlanta does not have very many crosstown roads. This puts a strain on the freeway and those existing crosstown roads. I think I understand what you're saying about the counties, but you can't put the blame on that. Well, you can actually. If there was better regional planning, then they could have all connected. Houston doesn't take up all of metro Houston, and Dallas definitely doesn't. But, those metro areas different cities/municipalities/etc., worked together with the roadway system. For example, with the growth out in the suburbs, roads are starting to connect to the city, from those suburbs (seeing this a lot lately in Houston).
This straw man is you said ""The only straight shots are either US or Georgia State highways" Then you say " Atlanta does not have very many crosstown roads. This puts a strain on the freeway and those existing crosstown roads" stop thinking of GA highways as freeway because their not, there regular roads!!!!!! METRO Atlanta alot GA Hwy is same thing as regular main roads it's the samething, " I understand what you're saying about the counties, but you can't put the blame on that. Well, you can actually." this also a straw man what I'm blaming? I said Counties are smaller and they work like cities in GA. State HWYS are more common and work as the main roads.

Quote:
Here is Houston's Regional Planning Map (and a lot of these are already completed): http://www.houstontx.gov/planning/DevelopmentRegs/docs_pdfs/2005_MTFP.pdf (broken link)

Can you not see the difference between that and what's in Atlanta?
Atlanta has more and many on a much larger scale? ) Livable Centers Initiative. there have been Hundreds of projects besides the larges.
Quote:
And construction...
Home improvement is retail.

Quote:
Dallas can give Atlanta a run for its money in the financial industry. As for the media, Dallas is no slouch in that department. And those energy companies in Atlanta are nothing compared to what Dallas has (Exxon for one). Atlanta's economy really isn't more diverse than Dallas. I'd say Dallas is the most diverse, followed by Atlanta, and then Houston
Atlanta is rank 7th in finance Dallas isn't even in the top 15. Media? Yeah Dallas has something like Cox commutation and the turner systems ) and I like the way you water down Atlanta in the energy department "even after I said it's smaller" then ballon Dallas Finance and Media up to Atlanta.

Quote:
Do you at least have the AJC article?
naw I would had posted it already, It's on line somwhere. It's one these things I came cross one day. seach up key words.

Quote:
Well, this was a big part in the article that the OP posted. Atlanta was too focused on "now" and not "the present and future" while the boom was going on, unlike Houston and Dallas. And let's hope that Clayton County joins MARTA. It may be hard if there is no heavy rail extension into Clayton, but if MARTA promises that, I think it'll pass.
The article didn't say anything about Dallas and Houston infrastructure it just says there still growing faster. but Yeah let me rephrase that because you miss everything what I was saying. In Georgia, there this Atlanta vs. the rest of Georgia or Metro Atlanta vs. the rest Georgia mentality in The State Legislative. So why focus on just transportation which is going to be slower, when if there were more live work play neighbors, people wouldn’t necessarily have to travel as much. So The ARC has been more focus on live work play neighbors. And generally the quality of life. Clayton County couldn’t afford to continue their public transportation and now their citizen are going vote weather to join Marta due to the political demographics of county it's most likely to be a yes. The state actually just pass a transportation bill and regions will be able to get a chance to vote on their future transpiration options, better late then never. But until then it’s actually good that the ARC is focus on live work play neighbors. And Fulton county gain over 30,000 in the 2009 estimate Atlanta proper is not slowing down, not even in the recession.

Quote:
When?
If your taking about the beltline it will be all completed in 15 years but the sections will open as completed.
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:11 AM
 
4,243 posts, read 4,143,172 times
Reputation: 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
I found this to be a pretty insightful post (from the thread titled "Population Growth vs. Employment Growth):



Hopefully Gnutella won't receive any backlash.
The subjectiveness is killing me, I won’t even bother.
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:36 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,901,341 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
^^Atlanta isn't the only one broke. Both Houston and Dallas are broke and both of those city's respective transit agency receive very little from the state (especially Houston).



Right. I'm pretty sure that if my location said "Atlanta" instead of "Houston", that DeaconJ and afonega1 would not be making the comments they were. But because I'm from Texas, I'm not suppose to know anything about Atlanta (because I'm obviously locked inside Texas' boundaries), and I can't comment on the city. I'm still trying to find out what did I say that was so out of bounds.
Most of the time you have been decent.But you made some erroneous statements that seem to point at problems that were not even at the top of the radar;

Like you kept talking about the grid and how Atlanta is at a disadvantage but yet neglect HOU or DAL are not because of their infrastructure issues.Like a major thing that you don't seem to get is the lack of HEAVY RAIL.What major cities in the world do not have a subway?Is Athens on a grid?(Okay maybe a bad example currently speaking>you get the point).Its got a subway though!

Then you made this statement compairing the Texas DUO to ATL:
Quote:
I really don't think so. We're reaching a "green bubble" now, that will definitely help out the Texas two because of the energy industry. What industry is Atlanta going to emerge as a leader in this decade? What do you believe will propel Atlanta back to what it was in the late 90s to mid-2000s?

As if green energy focus is not on every major cities mind.Atlanta leeds the nation in LEED certified buildings.It used to be WAY behind.

Then you said:
Quote:
You're telling me Atlanta city leaders/planners couldn't improve on those routes before/during the big growth spurt?
As if the fact that Atlanta was expanding MARTA up until 2000 on the North Line while you guys were building what?MORE ROADS ACROSS THE CITY!!And you think this is a negative for ATlanta?

You talk about loosing high end jobs but neglect to mention how Atlanta is leading the nation in the amount of millionaires it creates yearly and is expected to continue to have the largest numerical increases for a while.

You said this:
Quote:
Some of the worst traffic I've been in, in Atlanta, weren't even on the freeways, but instead the secondary roads (with no accidents). If you don't think multiple roadways running parallel to freeways, into the core of a city don't help, then I don't know what to tell you.


This is so untrue.Northside Dr,Peachtree, Piedmont RD,Marietta Street run the WHOLE length of the city North to South.there are others that are a little shorter but long enough to allow ingress and egress.Memorial,Martin Luther King,Dekalb AVE.Camp Creek runs from Collge Park/Airport all the way to the other side of town into Douglas Co.So YOUR own ignorance fuel the retorts to your deny your theoretical assertions as if they were facts when indeed they were at best conjecture.Conjecture that I had to lay to rest so as not to come across as some wild voracious "Atlanta Animal" ready to attack for just frivolity sake.

What finally got me wasthis:

Quote:
And as far as Atlanta having a more diverse economy than Houston or Dallas, that simply isn't true. Now with Houston, it is. Houston's economy isn't as diverse as Atlanta's (yet), but it's definitely making big strides. With Dallas, it's not even close. Dallas' economy is more diverse than Atlanta's. Dallas pretty much has all of Atlanta's industries, plus many jobs in the energy industry. It's weird that Dallas' economy is as diverse as Atlanta's, yet it kept growing during the recession, while Atlanta slowed down considerably. Makes me afraid to think of the growth in that area once the economy completely bounces back. Houston as well, with its diversifying economy and adding more jobs in the IT/telecommunications industries (among other new ones like nano/biotech), as well. Also, both Houston and Dallas' economies are much larger than Atlanta's.


Lil John says:WHAT?????WHAT??????OKAYYYYY!!

I gave you too major industries where Atlanta had a leg up on both cities.Now its funny because i get alot of hate because i am persistent to my points and may come across as a know it all.Well Im here to say is that "I know what I know" and the rest I just will be quiet till I know for sure.I would NEVER make a statement like that unless I had CONCRETE evidence to support what I said was true.However you found it necessary to state you opinion as if it were fact by spewing off some facts that were facts ,but nothing to prove your point.Yet you still insisted that:"
Quote:
Dallas' economy is as diverse as Atlanta's, yet it kept growing during the recession, while Atlanta slowed down
Yet you somehow forgot to mention how major cities like Chicago,LA,San Franciscon,(Ithink NYC too) did not grow either.So what makes those cities not during poorly as ATL if the outcome is the same.
It almost sounds as if you think HOU and DAL will be the only cities to survive a nuclear holocaust!!


Yet you kept on saying things like this:
Quote:
Those cities have better infrastructure and planning in the region than Atlanta. This is something Atlanta can fix, and it'll be hard. I like the plans I've seen from the Atlanta Regional Planning site. Many of the secondary roadways are not going to be widened, but they are going to fix things like turning lanes, driveways, etc. When the boom was going on, there was not as much improvements to the roadways/freeways like you saw in Dallas and Houston.


I showed you the Mercer Quality of Life survey in 2009.Atlanta was number 1 city for infrastructure.From Airport,Sewer upgrades,Fiber optic lines,and interstates.You talk like our idiot Gov.ROADS<ROADS,ROADS
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:47 AM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,223 posts, read 13,488,109 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
No this Houston suburan homes
houston - Google Maps

And your can't tell me anything about Dallas I live almost half my life there. This is how there suburban home look like.
Dallas - Google Maps

Dallas - Google Maps

Dallas - Google Maps

and this what you saw.
Atlanta - Google Maps

Atlanta - Google Maps

which is dense! and any but a grid
For the most part, homes in Houston and Dallas are built closer together than those in Atlanta. Also, the image you posted of Atlanta is not dense. And you're not seeing the bigger picture here. Let's just call that development you posted dense. What is it connected to? It's isolated. It may be a "dense" development, but it has no connectivity to its surrounding area.

Quote:
And the grid thing dosen't have exist to have density. and The grid isn't walkable if the streets are wide.
Grid's not have to exist, but if an area doesn't have a great grid, it needs a top-tier transit system. Something that Atlanta does not have (yet). And what do you mean, the streets are wide? Some aren't and some are... Plus, I fail to see how wide streets mean a place won't be walkable. People still walk all over NYC, LA's, and San Francisco's wide streets.

Quote:
This straw man is you said ""The only straight shots are either US or Georgia State highways" Then you say " Atlanta does not have very many crosstown roads. This puts a strain on the freeway and those existing crosstown roads" stop thinking of GA highways as freeway because their not, there regular roads!!!!!! METRO Atlanta alot GA Hwy is same thing as regular main roads it's the samething, " I understand what you're saying about the counties, but you can't put the blame on that. Well, you can actually." this also a straw man what I'm blaming? I said Counties are smaller and they work like cities in GA. State HWYS are more common and work as the main roads.
Stop thinking of Georgia highways as freeways? I never thought that. I know they are roads. I don't understand what you're trying to say. What I'm saying is that Atlanta doesn't have many crosstown roads. Because of that, the freeways and secondary roads get clogged easily with people trying to find the very few routes to go across the metro area.

Let me ask this: what, to you, is the most connected side of the Atlanta metro area?

Quote:
Atlanta has more and many on a much larger scale? ) Livable Centers Initiative. there have been Hundreds of projects besides the larges.
That is good for Atlanta! I didn't notice this when I checked out the site earlier. Houston and Dallas both have similar projects.

Quote:
Atlanta is rank 7th in finance Dallas isn't even in the top 15. Media? Yeah Dallas has something like Cox commutation and the turner systems ) and I like the way you water down Atlanta in the energy department "even after I said it's smaller" then ballon Dallas Finance and Media up to Atlanta.
First of all, I wasn't even responding to you with what I bolded. Second, I never tried to balloon Dallas' Finance and Media. Can you point out where I did?

Quote:
The article didn't say anything about Dallas and Houston infrastructure it just says there still growing faster.
Straight from the article:

But the biggest infrastructure issue for Atlanta is transportation. Atlanta is famous for its bad traffic and attendant pollution. Its freeways are among the world's widest, but this disguises the extent to which the roadway infrastructure is woefully insufficient. Atlanta has a simple beltway and spoke system similar akin to Indianapolis and Columbus, much smaller cities. Other big cities like Houston, Dallas, Minneapolis, and Detroit have much more elaborate systems. In particular, rather than relying on a single ring road, these cities have webs of freeway with multiple “crosstown” routes.

This statement by the author is very true. Atlanta can (and is working) on fixing this, though.

Quote:
but Yeah let me rephrase that because you miss everything what I was saying. In Georgia, there this Atlanta vs. the rest of Georgia or Metro Atlanta vs. the rest Georgia mentality in The State Legislative. So why focus on just transportation which is going to be slower, when if there were more live work play neighbors, people wouldn’t necessarily have to travel as much. So The ARC has been more focus on live work play neighbors. And generally the quality of life.
If that was the thinking that is going on, then there is no surprise as to why Atlanta's road system isn't as elaborate as Houston and Dallas. Both couldn't be done at the same time? Build these "live, work, and play" neighborhoods, as well as increase the connectivity between them and other areas of the metro (by transit and/or roads).

Quote:
Clayton County couldn’t afford to continue their public transportation and now their citizen are going vote weather to join Marta due to the political demographics of county it's most likely to be a yes. The state actually just pass a transportation bill and regions will be able to get a chance to vote on their future transpiration options, better late then never. But until then it’s actually good that the ARC is focus on live work play neighbors. And Fulton county gain over 30,000 in the 2009 estimate Atlanta proper is not slowing down, not even in the recession.
Atlanta's core actually started having the same percentage growth as the suburbs during the recession. That's bad for the suburbs. And you're right, it is better late than never, and at least the Atlanta region is starting on that. I remember when there use to be a lot of bickering between the city and suburbs, but it seems to be easing up now.

Quote:
If your taking about the beltline it will be all completed in 15 years but the sections will open as completed.
Nice. It'll be great once it's completely finished.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,901,341 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
I found this to be a pretty insightful post (from the thread titled "Population Growth vs. Employment Growth):



Hopefully Gnutella won't receive any backlash.
He was partially correct.Those jobs were more than replace due to Delta.Those Delta jobs hurt many cities.In the paper today it said Delta to hire 300 pilots.Not to mention just since 2000 alone,off the top of my head;Newell Rubbermaid ,NCR,Novelis,Sony-Erickson,First Data,Intercontinental Hotels, Enfinity Corporation,Spectrum Brands,and the list goes on and on.

He is right that brand equity has hurt Atlanta.Yet you fail to see that this probably will happen to Houston and Dallas as you already see people seeing those cities as "saviors" so they flock their.I don't wish it to happen but I can almost bet you with the next 2 years those unemployement rates will go up as those in other cities like Atlanta slowly ease down.Its the nature of the beast.People go where the jobs are.The question is how much faster will any of these cities grow than where they are today.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:17 AM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,223 posts, read 13,488,109 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Most of the time you have been decent.But you made some erroneous statements that seem to point at problems that were not even at the top of the radar;
Maybe they should be at the top?

Quote:
Like you kept talking about the grid and how Atlanta is at a disadvantage but yet neglect HOU or DAL are not because of their infrastructure issues.Like a major thing that you don't seem to get is the lack of HEAVY RAIL.What major cities in the world do not have a subway?Is Athens on a grid?(Okay maybe a bad example currently speaking>you get the point).Its got a subway though!
A subway/heavy rail does not make a city. It's nice to have though, but there are other was of connecting cities, too. For example, Dallas' light rail is built more like a commuter rail system. It goes from the core out to the suburbs. Houston is building its light rail system like a 21st Century version of those urban rail systems. It'll connect the inner loop together (with light rail + trolley lines), but commuter rail will bring in suburbanites to the core.

Quote:
Then you made this statement compairing the Texas DUO to ATL:
As if green energy focus is not on every major cities mind.Atlanta leeds the nation in LEED certified buildings.It used to be WAY behind.
Considering both Houston (obviously) and Dallas have larger energy industries than Atlanta, I'll give them the advantage. For example, T. Boone Pickens home base is Dallas. Houston is home to all of those energy companies trying to go green.

But I fail to see how I made it seem like green energy is not on every major city's mind. How did you get that out of what I said? All I said was that the energy companies that are trying to go green will help the Texas two (especially Houston).

Quote:
Then you said: As if the fact that Atlanta was expanding MARTA up until 2000 on the North Line while you guys were building what?MORE ROADS ACROSS THE CITY!!And you think this is a negative for ATlanta?
Dallas was doing both at the same time (rail and roads/freeways). Houston didn't start it's rail until 2000 (the last expansion of MARTA).

Quote:
You talk about loosing high end jobs but neglect to mention how Atlanta is leading the nation in the amount of millionaires it creates yearly and is expected to continue to have the largest numerical increases for a while.
What good is creating more millionaires, when you're still losing those high/mid level paying jobs and are replacing them with low level paying jobs?

Quote:
This is so untrue.Northside Dr,Peachtree, Piedmont RD,Marietta Street run the WHOLE length of the city North to South.there are others that are a little shorter but long enough to allow ingress and egress.Memorial,Martin Luther King,Dekalb AVE.Camp Creek runs from Collge Park/Airport all the way to the other side of town into Douglas Co.So YOUR own ignorance fuel the retorts to your deny your theoretical assertions as if they were facts when indeed they were at best conjecture.Conjecture that I had to lay to rest so as not to come across as some wild voracious "Atlanta Animal" ready to attack for just frivolity sake.
How was what I said not true? Those roads you mentioned are nothing compared to the connectivity of Houston and Dallas' secondary roads. Those are actually very few routes. Do you believe the secondary roads in Atlanta are enough, given the Atlanta area's size now? Why didn't Atlanta improve upon these roads during the boom like Houston and Dallas?

Quote:
I gave you too major industries where Atlanta had a leg up on both cities.Now its funny because i get alot of hate because i am persistent to my points and may come across as a know it all.Well Im here to say is that "I know what I know" and the rest I just will be quiet till I know for sure.I would NEVER make a statement like that unless I had CONCRETE evidence to support what I said was true.However you found it necessary to state you opinion as if it were fact by spewing off some facts that were facts ,but nothing to prove your point.Yet you still insisted that:"Yet you somehow forgot to mention how major cities like Chicago,LA,San Franciscon,(Ithink NYC too) did not grow either.So what makes those cities not during poorly as ATL if the outcome is the same.
It almost sounds as if you think HOU and DAL will be the only cities to survive a nuclear holocaust!!
So, because you gave me two industries that Atlanta is better than Dallas in, that means that Dallas' economy is not as diverse? Dallas' economy is every bit as diverse as Atlanta's. Just look at the companies headquartered there: AT&T, Exxon, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Cinemark, Nieman Marcus, GameStop, Comerica, JC Penney, BELO, XTO Energy, Frito-Lay, etc. I'd say that's a pretty diverse group and every bit as diverse as Atlanta's.

Quote:
I showed you the Mercer Quality of Life survey in 2009.Atlanta was number 1 city for infrastructure.From Airport,Sewer upgrades,Fiber optic lines,and interstates.You talk like our idiot Gov.ROADS<ROADS,ROADS
Don't you have to pay for that? I know Mercer released a 2010 list that you have to pay for, also.

Last edited by Trae713; 06-01-2010 at 01:29 AM..
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:26 AM
 
Location: ITL (Houston)
9,223 posts, read 13,488,109 times
Reputation: 3545
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
He was partially correct.Those jobs were more than replace due to Delta.Those Delta jobs hurt many cities.In the paper today it said Delta to hire 300 pilots.Not to mention just since 2000 alone,off the top of my head;Newell Rubbermaid ,NCR,Novelis,Sony-Erickson,First Data,Intercontinental Hotels, Enfinity Corporation,Spectrum Brands,and the list goes on and on.
And this is something that Atlanta was big on this decade...attracting new companies. Even with that though, Atlanta was one of the more harder hit job markets during the recession. Good news about the Delta pilots and Sony Ericsson, as that's a start to a rebound.

Quote:
He is right that brand equity has hurt Atlanta.Yet you fail to see that this probably will happen to Houston and Dallas as you already see people seeing those cities as "saviors" so they flock their.I don't wish it to happen but I can almost bet you with the next 2 years those unemployement rates will go up as those in other cities like Atlanta slowly ease down.Its the nature of the beast.People go where the jobs are.The question is how much faster will any of these cities grow than where they are today.
You would be correct here, if Houston and Dallas (and Texas in general) were not still adding a record number of jobs. Atlanta stopped adding jobs (there was a big slowdown), yet people still kept moving there in droves. It's not the same in Texas, where there is, overall, a more diverse economy. Also, job creation has remained consistent with population growth. In areas of Texas where they are not, the growth slowed down (San Antonio, for example).
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:27 AM
 
4,243 posts, read 4,143,172 times
Reputation: 3218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
For the most part, homes in Houston and Dallas are built closer together than those in Atlanta. Also, the image you posted of Atlanta is not dense. And you're not seeing the bigger picture here. Let's just call that development you posted dense. What is it connected to? It's isolated. It may be a "dense" development, but it has no connectivity to its surrounding area.
Plots of land? Not dense? LMAO this is funny because the homes in the Atlanta image had hardly nothing to completely no yards And I’m not taking about Atlanta's general home land plot size vs. Texas, I was showcasing density that not in a grid and what it can be.
Quote:
No this Houston suburan homes
houston - Google Maps

And your can't tell me anything about Dallas I live almost half my life there. This is how there suburban home look like.
Dallas - Google Maps
Dallas - Google Maps
Dallas - Google Maps

and this what you saw.
Atlanta - Google Maps
Atlanta - Google Maps
By the way yes Texas land plot average sizes are denser, but in the links NO, not even close. That was a Atlanta New Urbanist project and the average Texas suburban land plot is MUCH larger, which is why I posted the Texas links. And I know this because I stayed there in DFW several times trust me. So don't boast, red flag. And for no connectivity to its surrounding area it's not done being bulit. Infact I knowingly post a New Urban project because it was not in grid, LMAO

Atlanta - Google Maps

looks like Dallas and Houston suburbs

Quote:
Grid's not have to exist, but if an area doesn't have a great grid, it needs a top-tier transit system. Something that Atlanta does not have (yet). And what do you mean, the streets are wide? Some aren't and some are... Plus, I fail to see how wide streets mean a place won't be walkable. People still walk all over NYC, LA's, and San Francisco's wide streets.
Most NY and SF streets are not wide. and LA doesn't have a rep for walkable. Also let me say this to prevent a misconception just in case. I didn't say Atlanta is completely walkable, I said has potential to be walkable in way Dallas and Houston can’t.

Quote:
Stop thinking of Georgia highways as freeways? I never thought that. I know they are roads. I don't understand what you're trying to say. What I'm saying is that Atlanta doesn't have many crosstown roads. Because of that, the freeways and secondary roads get clogged easily with people trying to find the very few routes to go across the metro area.

Let me ask this: what, to you, is the most connected side of the Atlanta metro area?
Ok to keep everything in sense

Dallas
Freeways
There’s main roads
There’s the back roads or neighborhood

Atlanta
Freeways
There’s main roads ( most of these are Georgia state highways, roads are more common in GA to have title of Hwy and own by the state than Texas.
There’s the back roads or neighborhood

So to say "The only straight shots are either US or Georgia State highways" then say “Stop thinking of Georgia highways as freeways? I never thought that. I know they are roads.” and then “What I'm saying is that Atlanta doesn't have many crosstown roads” is contradiction yourself.

But in answering your question, lead me to a question, Which side do you want?

Quote:
Straight from the article:

But the biggest infrastructure issue for Atlanta is transportation. Atlanta is famous for its bad traffic and attendant pollution. Its freeways are among the world's widest, but this disguises the extent to which the roadway infrastructure is woefully insufficient. Atlanta has a simple beltway and spoke system similar akin to Indianapolis and Columbus, much smaller cities. Other big cities like Houston, Dallas, Minneapolis, and Detroit have much more elaborate systems. In particular, rather than relying on a single ring road, these cities have webs of freeway with multiple “crosstown” routes.

This statement by the author is very true. Atlanta can (and is working) on fixing this, though.
Atlanta city limit is small and Metro Atlanta does have a web freeways system. but what trip me out the author compare Atlanta to Indianapolis and Columbus is just throw, thank you for pointing out another flaw in this acticle. The author is on a roll, ROFL

Atlanta - Google Maps

Columbus - Google Maps

Indianapolis - Google Maps


Quote:
If that was the thinking that is going on, then there is no surprise as to why Atlanta's road system isn't as elaborate as Houston and Dallas. Both couldn't be done at the same time? Build these "live, work, and play" neighborhoods, as well as increase the connectivity between them and other areas of the metro (by transit and/or roads).
Again Metro Atlanta is developing more live walk play areas then Dallas and Houston, I not saying there not. The ARC place more cards on this for a reason. The state would have little financing and support for Atlanta as for transportation, the Atlanta vs. Georgia mentality. So rather then doing nothing the whole time the focus has been harder on live work play areas, and trying to decrease the necessary of distance commuting. As in stop separating residential and commercial area in the first place.

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Atlanta's core actually started having the same percentage growth as the suburbs during the recession. That's bad for the suburbs. And you're right, it is better late than never, and at least the Atlanta region is starting on that. I remember when there use to be a lot of bickering between the city and suburbs, but it seems to be easing up now.
No, Fulton county alone grew 30,000 last year while the hold 28 county metro area grew 80,000. less sprawling you mean.

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Nice. It'll be great once it's completely finished.

YouTube - Beltline Fourth Ward Park Progress - September 2009

IMPRESSIVE!!The NEW Historic Forth Ward Park Progress-Beltline


YouTube - Beltline Northeast Corridor Flythrough 04 2009

Last edited by chiatldal; 06-01-2010 at 04:38 AM..
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,901,341 times
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Originally Posted by Scarface713 View Post
Maybe they should be at the top?

A subway/heavy rail does not make a city. It's nice to have though, but there are other was of connecting cities, too. For example, Dallas' light rail is built more like a commuter rail system. It goes from the core out to the suburbs. Houston is building its light rail system like a 21st Century version of those urban rail systems. It'll connect the inner loop together (with light rail + trolley lines), but commuter rail will bring in suburbanites to the core.

Considering both Houston (obviously) and Dallas have larger energy industries than Atlanta, I'll give them the advantage. For example, T. Boone Pickens home base is Dallas. Houston is home to all of those energy companies trying to go green.

But I fail to see how I made it seem like green energy is not on every major city's mind. How did you get that out of what I said? All I said was that the energy companies that are trying to go green will help the Texas two (especially Houston).

Dallas was doing both at the same time (rail and roads/freeways). Houston didn't start it's rail until 2000 (the last expansion of MARTA).

What good is creating more millionaires, when you're still losing those high/mid level paying jobs and are replacing them with low level paying jobs?

How was what I said not true? Those roads you mentioned are nothing compared to the connectivity of Houston and Dallas' secondary roads. Those are actually very few routes. Do you believe the secondary roads in Atlanta are enough, given the Atlanta area's size now? Why didn't Atlanta improve upon these roads during the boom like Houston and Dallas?

Ask the people who tried to build the Jimmy Carter Freeway through the middle of some of the cities most beautiful neighbourhoods today.Kind of easy to build a road when you got flat open spaces with not much to interupt.You have a revisionist idea of what actually happened to whyt those roads got there.

Houston annex swaths of land that people were not and still not in some cases are even heavilly populated.So dont act like it was great forsight other than the fact that they just could.Atlanta borders have not been increased since the late 50s.Not to mention the city(core) lost like 100,00 people over 25 years through the 1970's,1980's and much of the 1990's.

You also seem to forget that Houston overbuilt in the eighties and suffered drastically as a result.Many of those roads were in lowly populate areas that did not pan out until the mid to late 1990s to present.


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During the late 1970s, Houston experienced a population boom as people from Rust Belt states moved to Texas in large numbers.[26] The new residents came for the numerous employment opportunities in the petroleum industry, created as a result of the Arab Oil Embargo.
The population boom ended abruptly in the mid-1980s, as oil prices fell precipitously. The space industry also suffered in 1986 after the Space Shuttle Challenger exploded shortly after launch. The late 1980s saw a recession adversely affecting the city's economy


I made reference to this when you posted what Gnutella stated.This is exactly what could happen to HOU/DAL because its known to have the JOBS.How many jobs will they have for all these people moving there?Many people here in Atlanta have been saying that for years.It looks like it was somewhat true.


So, because you gave me two industries that Atlanta is better than Dallas in, that means that Dallas' economy is not as diverse? Dallas' economy is every bit as diverse as Atlanta's. Just look at the companies headquartered there: AT&T, Exxon, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Cinemark, Nieman Marcus, GameStop, Comerica, JC Penney, BELO, XTO Energy, Frito-Lay, etc. I'd say that's a pretty diverse group and every bit as diverse as Atlanta's.

Don't you have to pay for that? I know Mercer released a 2010 list that you have to pay for, also.
You just have to search publication that quote the report.The one I posted was in 2009.

I was not the one that said ATL or DAL was MORE or LESS diverse in its economy.YOU DID.

You seem to keep bringing up :"when "DAL and HOU build this and that then it will be...." but neglect to realize like we have also told you about the proposed lines for the Belt-line project in Atlanta.Not to mention the regional planning of such systems currently underway even finally by our Johnny come much lately Governor.That along with what Atlanta already has was my point that you are missing are just not reserving the same mentality when speaking of ATlanta.

T.Boone Pickens and his biggest partner/friend in this is Atlantan Ted Turner(CNN/Founder).The same guy who pledge 1 billion of his fortune over 10 years to the U.N. and the largest single landowner in the U.S.

You keep saying Atlanta is loosing those high-tech jobs.At worst its not gaining them as fast.That's not the same thing .So lets a first be correct.If that were so much of a problem then the per capita incomes of individuals and families would be much lower INSTEAD of higher as they are in Atlanta than both DAL and Houston.In fact the whole state of Texas.I figure since you want to tout GDP's of the "Texas Duo"

You ll be happy to note that tech wise Dallas does great in this field.I mean Texas Instruments was the calculator every kid had growing up(my age).Who can forget H.Ross Perots company EDS.(he owns it again right?)So it really is no surprise that they have a slight leg up overall according to some subjective rankings.

However that is contrary to what you were saying.Dallas has always been a player in that field.Atlanta has also been around and has increased its status to.
Companies like Earthlink,At&T Mobility.Scientific-Atlanta,and now Sony Erickson.And as the Milken Inst. Ranked the cities:

Dallas in 2007 ranked 6th in the nation as a having one of the top major high tech economy.Atlanta ranked 12th and Houston in at 21st.

Atlanta was still ranked number one in the Telecommunications sector.High Tech is an ambiguous term that can be used for so many things.

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/content/ded/Bioscience_Task_Force/milken_institute_2009_report_north_americas_high_t ech_economy_executive_summary.pdf (broken link)


You mention all those companies yet if you break them down by "sectors".You would realize that all you name was four sectors.Retail,finance,energy and transportation.A couple of them are owned by companies headquartered elsewhere. None of them except the energy sectors dominate in any sector.

When we speak of diversity in economy.There must be multiple sectors that are relevant to the economy of the city.If a city does not have it or too little of a sector to matter,then it makes it not as competitive in diversity;LEt me elaborate.
Atlanta dominates over DAL and HOU in these sectors:
Telecommunications-At&T Mobility,Sony Erickson
Transportation- Delta,Hartsfield-Jackson Airport
Non-Profits-C.A.R.E. International,Habitat for Humanity,Salvation Army,Points of Light,Cancer Society,Arthiritis Foundation
Higher Education-Ga Tech,AUC,Emory,GSA,UWG,Kennesaw State,etc....
Logistics-UPS,Norfolk Southern
Retail/Services-Home Depot,Coca Cola,COX Enterprises,Wendy's/Arby's International,Newell-Rubbermaid,Spectrum Brands
Government-State Capitol,CDC,Military Bases,Fed Reserve
Finance-Suntrust Bank,Fed Reserve,Invesco,I.C.E.Stock Exchange
The only thing that HOU/DAL has over ATL is Energy and maybe Construction.
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