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Old 06-21-2010, 01:51 PM
bpj
 
6 posts, read 8,379 times
Reputation: 16

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Here's a list of things that matter to me, that I have in Atlanta, and that no other city south of Washington, east of Dallas, and north of Miami offers:
-the Atlanta Symphony. It's one of the nation's finest, and truly on a roll right now, under the leadership of Robert Spano, who has made it one of the leaders in presenting new classical music that people actually want to hear. The recent concert featuring world premieres by both Michael Gandalfi and Jennifer Higdon is just the sort of thing that doesn't happen anywhere in the Southeast other than Atlanta. And then there's the best-on-the-planet ASO Chorus. And the chamber groups, particularly the Atlanta Chamber Players (see their website for an idea of their recent accomplishments).
-the Tony Award-winning Alliance Theatre is just one of the companies that give Atlanta a theatre scene to rival Seattle or Houston. Any (literate) newcomer to Atlanta should check out: Horizon, Actors' Express, 7 Stages, Theatrical Outfit, Atlanta Shakespeare, PushPush, and Dad's Garage, for starters. See which is your favorite. Atlanta even has a (15 year old) French-language theatre company, Théâtre du Rêve, which has presented world premieres in both Atlanta and Paris. There's nothing like the Atlanta theatre community in Charlotte, Charleston, or wherever in the South.
-between the High Museum, the Carlos, the Atlanta Contemporary Art Center, MOCAGA, MODA, Spelman, and Oglethorpe museum, and the following galleries: Marcia Wood, Sandler Hudson, Solomon Projects, Saltworks, Jackson Fine Art, Barbara Archer, Kiang, and Lumiere, for starters, there really is nothing comparable in the South in the visual arts.
-Then there's the range and quality of restaurants, places such as the Carter Center, King Center, Atl. History Center, and Center for Puppetry Arts, and the region's only subway system (drastically underbuilt, but still the only...........
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Old 06-21-2010, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,914 posts, read 4,006,935 times
Reputation: 5781
Hmmmmm, a lot of personal preferences but, the author makes a very, very good point. One would have to be blind to not see what is/has been going on in Nashville, Raleigh, and Charlotte. Even Chattanooga and Greenville have their moments.

Like all cities that have boomed, there are a myriad of issues tied to that growth. Atlanta has burgeoning sewer problems that are hopefully being handled by quite a few outsourced engineering firms (Khafra) and others to solve their problems. I believe the State of Georgia offered the city 2 billion (With a B) for the Airport but, apparently, the government in place at that time wasn't about to jeopardize that voting block even if it could use the 2 billion (With a B).

Couple that type of "forward thinking" in growth and one can pretty much guess why infrastructure improvements stall. Have any of you worked with MARTA as a vendor??? Whoa, the stories YOU could tell, huh? Hopefully they fixed that 401K looming problem once and for all....

Annnnneeeeway, Atlanta has some real serious issues. Despite that, there is no denying that it will continue to grow. The way most things this size take on a life of their own. Will the metro eventually exceed 25 counties? Stay tuned. Not sure how we could begin to address the mass transit at THAT point if we don't do something right NOW.

This isn't an urban thing, this isn't a money thing, it's a survival thing! High-Speed Rail throughout this city's footprint is the only hope of solving a transportation problem that the most ardent Atlanta fan will readily admit needs addressing.

If one were to poll the single biggest gripe this city has is the traffic and yet, these "forward thinkers" believe it would take you decades to fix what should only take 8-10 years. You would probably have to get the city of Atlanta's MARTA workforce out of the way to start but, it could be achieved.

Tax increase? You bet. Double mine. So long as the entire extra amount goes for transportation infrastructure, I'm all for it. Otherwise, you are going to have a population one half of NYC with NO real subway, train or cab system to support it.

THINK ABOUT THAT. Regardless of how much we love to drive here (the city with longest AVERAGE commute in the country now, 33 miles one way) sooner or later, you are going to have to see that a 3 year old Honda Civic with 80,000 miles on it is not a "good thing".

Do you realize you have people now commuting from NORTH GEORGIA on a daily basis???

We aren't talking Cletus with the 2 kids named Earl either folks. We are talking about normal working folks who think a 1.5 hour commute each way is "achievable". Sure, for the next 5 or so years, probalby so.

But, what do you do when we hit 5 millon? 6 million? How much time are you going to be willing to spend to get to and from work? We can't all live in-town and besides, what will you do when most of the jobs HAVE migrated to the suburbs?

You think this won't happen? Think about this. Most folks want to live in the suburbs, ergo, they exist? Most of these folks are well-educated, well-trained. Companies want/need well trained folks. Companies need access to well-trained folks....ergo, Windward, Kennesaw, East Cherokee, Suwanee and other areas growth???

Soooooo, aside from a bunch of Tina Fey wannabe's in mid-town, eventually, the major diversity of jobs will, over time, move out. What happened to downtown will eventually happen to mid-town, to SOME degree.

Of couse, we could skip part of this exercise by easing the traffic issues, pushign a mass transit that works for all, and grow things in a more controlled, sustainable fashion?

I don't know about you folks but, North Fulton to downtown is enough. Can't imagine adding another hour a day to it. Can you? It's a chance to b'slap the growth of the other cities mentioned for that very reason.

Those cities are sustainable TODAY although one has certainly seen the difference in Nashville in the last 10 years. The traffic reminds you clearly of Atlanta. It's clear to this one observer that the quality of life one enjoys is entirely related to how much time they spend, or in this case, do not spend, in traffic.

What the heck, lead for a change. Try to be the best in the region, again. It takes guts, determination and most of all, tax dollars BUT, you are NOT going to like the outcome if you don't.

Folks are still pouring in and yet, Marta hasn't added a single stop since I can remember.....sigh....
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,319 posts, read 21,889,791 times
Reputation: 3848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
THINK ABOUT THAT. Regardless of how much we love to drive here (the city with longest AVERAGE commute in the country now, 33 miles one way) sooner or later, you are going to have to see that a 3 year old Honda Civic with 80,000 miles on it is not a "good thing".
I agree with much of what you say, but I think you'll find the average commute is 33 minutes, not 33 miles. That's quite different; in many areas of town, 33 minutes might be only a few miles.
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Old 06-22-2010, 10:43 AM
 
213 posts, read 362,675 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by adavi215 View Post
Is this debate about whether or not Atlanta is still crowned king of the Southeast, or another Atlanta vs Dallas vs Houston(mainly) thread? I'm just sayin...
Look what posters Chimed In...
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:42 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,794 posts, read 11,724,981 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner View Post
I agree with much of what you say, but I think you'll find the average commute is 33 minutes, not 33 miles. That's quite different; in many areas of town, 33 minutes might be only a few miles.
You would be correct, it is minutes, but for 2010 the average commute time is 30.8 minutes. It is also not the worst. The top 10 are:

1. NYC Metro - 34.55 minutes
2. DC Metro - 33.23 minutes
3. Chicago Metro - 31.08
4. Atlanta Metro - 30.8
5. Riverside Metro - 30.43
6. Baltimore Metro - 29.15
7. San Francisco Metro - 28.66
8. Boston Metro - 28.50
9. Houston Metro - 28.48
10. Los Angeles Metro - 28.39

This is what bothers me about a lot of people when they want to talk about how "far behind" Atlanta is. Now obviously, NYC is going to have a lot of traffic since they are like 4 times the size of Metro Atlanta, and I'll give Chicago a break too. DC however is almost exactly the same size as Atlanta for both city population and metro population, but they have commuter rail, a subway twice as large as ours, and big suburban bus network. Even with all of that they still manage to have worse traffic than Atlanta. In fact, all of the metros in the list above aside from Houston and Riverside have all of the commuter public transportation options that Atlanta gets lambasted for not having and yet have pretty much the same traffic problems.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for public transportation and I think it would benefit Atlanta greatly, but to single out Atlanta for a nationwide problem is a bit ridiculous IMHO.
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Old 06-22-2010, 06:07 PM
 
7,848 posts, read 17,801,972 times
Reputation: 2762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post

Do you realize you have people now commuting from NORTH GEORGIA on a daily basis???

We aren't talking Cletus with the 2 kids named Earl either folks. We are talking about normal working folks who think a 1.5 hour commute each way is "achievable". Sure, for the next 5 or so years, probalby so.

But, what do you do when we hit 5 millon? 6 million? How much time are you going to be willing to spend to get to and from work? We can't all live in-town and besides, what will you do when most of the jobs HAVE migrated to the suburbs?

You think this won't happen? Think about this. Most folks want to live in the suburbs, ergo, they exist? Most of these folks are well-educated, well-trained. Companies want/need well trained folks. Companies need access to well-trained folks....ergo, Windward, Kennesaw, East Cherokee, Suwanee and other areas growth???
Just a couple of comments...

1. I'm not sure what you would have Atlanta do about the choices people make. This city, nor any city for that matter, can control where people choose to live and how far they are willing to drive. It's the same issue in every city around the U.S. - Atlanta isn't any different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
Soooooo, aside from a bunch of Tina Fey wannabe's in mid-town, eventually, the major diversity of jobs will, over time, move out. What happened to downtown will eventually happen to mid-town, to SOME degree.
2. I take it that you haven't left your suburb to visit Midtown lately. Tina Fey wannabes? That's ridiculous.

In case you didn't realize it, Midtown WAS Downtown about 20 years ago - there really wasn't a lot of difference between the two. Just look at the way Midtown has risen (and Downtown for that matter) since then. It's easy to see the improvements if you saw the recent past, and both are only going to get better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
What the heck, lead for a change. Try to be the best in the region, again. It takes guts, determination and most of all, tax dollars BUT, you are NOT going to like the outcome if you don't.

Folks are still pouring in and yet, Marta hasn't added a single stop since I can remember.....sigh....
3. Where is it that you live? Atlanta IS the best in the region - easily. But that is simply opinion. What isn't opinion is that more people choose to live in Atlanta than the other cities in the region, most of which aren't anywhere near Atlanta's level.

Folks have been pouring in for decades now. Atlanta has been booming since Civil War Reconstruction, and has been growing by leaps and bounds ever since.
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,914 posts, read 4,006,935 times
Reputation: 5781
Default Keep that thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
Just a couple of comments...

1. I'm not sure what you would have Atlanta do about the choices people make. This city, nor any city for that matter, can control where people choose to live and how far they are willing to drive. It's the same issue in every city around the U.S. - Atlanta isn't any different.

True, every major metro suffers this fate. However, the larger ones seem to have some alternatives, would you agree? NYC has subways, train/transit, cab, bus and cars. Despite all the conduits of tranport, it is still a mess. When I look at a city, I look at the ENTIRE region that is generally served and supported by those who live around and near it. I have friends in NYC that spend 1.5 hours each way but, that's in a city of 10 million plus. There are those that routinely commute from Dawson, Spalding, Paulding, Jackson, and White that spend the same time.....seems like we are exponentially growing with limited transport options?

2. I take it that you haven't left your suburb to visit Midtown lately. Tina Fey wannabes? That's ridiculous.

In case you didn't realize it, Midtown WAS Downtown about 20 years ago - there really wasn't a lot of difference between the two. Just look at the way Midtown has risen (and Downtown for that matter) since then. It's easy to see the improvements if you saw the recent past, and both are only going to get better.

Saw it the whole way. Came her in 83 when a commute from Tucker to mid-town was 20-30 mins....might be similar but the city and it's surrounding area has more than doubled. In those days, traffic backed up on the entire 2 lanes of Ga 400 all the way back to Holcomb Bridge. True, improvements have been made but, the growth apparently has outgrown the pace of improvements?


3. Where is it that you live? Atlanta IS the best in the region - easily. But that is simply opinion. What isn't opinion is that more people choose to live in Atlanta than the other cities in the region, most of which aren't anywhere near Atlanta's level.

Folks have been pouring in for decades now. Atlanta has been booming since Civil War Reconstruction, and has been growing by leaps and bounds ever since.
Yes, they have. They have also been pouring in to other cities for quite some time as well. The irony here is that while the outer counties (17 or more depending on where you draw the line) have a better chance to install the infrastructure NOW than wait and end up having a problem like Ga 400 did? That said, it seems obvious the rail or rail potential could dovetail well with our already built hub and spoke arrangement of highways? Marta Rail is a start and with any luck, something like that expanded to the suburbs over the next 20 years could/would go a long way in abatting and diffusing a growing problem.
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Old 07-11-2010, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,914 posts, read 4,006,935 times
Reputation: 5781
Default Not quite apples to apples

Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
You would be correct, it is minutes, but for 2010 the average commute time is 30.8 minutes. It is also not the worst. The top 10 are:

1. NYC Metro - 34.55 minutes
2. DC Metro - 33.23 minutes
3. Chicago Metro - 31.08
4. Atlanta Metro - 30.8
5. Riverside Metro - 30.43
6. Baltimore Metro - 29.15
7. San Francisco Metro - 28.66
8. Boston Metro - 28.50
9. Houston Metro - 28.48
10. Los Angeles Metro - 28.39

This is what bothers me about a lot of people when they want to talk about how "far behind" Atlanta is. Now obviously, NYC is going to have a lot of traffic since they are like 4 times the size of Metro Atlanta, and I'll give Chicago a break too. DC however is almost exactly the same size as Atlanta for both city population and metro population, but they have commuter rail, a subway twice as large as ours, and big suburban bus network. Even with all of that they still manage to have worse traffic than Atlanta. In fact, all of the metros in the list above aside from Houston and Riverside have all of the commuter public transportation options that Atlanta gets lambasted for not having and yet have pretty much the same traffic problems.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for public transportation and I think it would benefit Atlanta greatly, but to single out Atlanta for a nationwide problem is a bit ridiculous IMHO.
Not singling us out entirely but, I am noting what is becomming a major problem for a city/metro of 4.2 million. Note the stats you included, we are rivaling cities 1.5 to 2.0 times our size? I know the measurement would not be linear but, as I pointed out in another response, there are some that spend 1.5 hours each way and this, in a city of 4.2 million (metro)? Seems a bit steep doesn't it? I think it safe to say that if we grow to 10 million, we will gain more than a mere 4 minutes each way? I don't see a huge subway, rail, ferry, and 2 additional airports coming our way anytime soon, do you?
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:36 AM
 
Location: ATLANTA
1,852 posts, read 1,165,123 times
Reputation: 1284
Can't say the game is over for Atlanta but i will say the Metro area has moved very very backwards. Metro Atlanta's biggest issue is Public Transportation and it's lack of care for it by government officials. If this isnt fixed this will kill the city and its positive rep around the world. Who has ever heard of any city just shutting down an entire transit system leaving thousands of commuters stranded(CTRAN) with no way to work, school, doctor, etc. Not only that but MARTA the main transit system cant even get funding from the state it resides in and was forced to cut over 30 bus routes and slow rail service when the transit service wasnt extensive enough as is.A main reason people move to Atlanta in the first place was its so called image of Public Transportation (subway system, buses) in a confortable southern city, which they are fooled by. Once they move here from New York, Chicago, DC, etc. they quickly learn how much it is hated and how your lively hood of getting around will be in serious danger if you rely on it. That image and word of mouth will kill Atlanta, its starting to do it now, people are talking. No one is going to move to Atlanta with the cuts in transit. That is crazy when you have a city population over 500,000 and Metro area pushing 6,000,000. Your gonna chock on your growth...All i can say is only in the south. Metro Atlanta really only has one problem, " Its in the state of Georgia". It wants to have prosperous ways in a State family that doesnt want to allow it, (Old south mentality). Its sorta like the when your family tells you that you should stay in your home town and stay close to family and you have bigger dreams and plans in your life but the mentality stays in your mind that you can only go so far in life. Its an idenity problem that will not allow the City to grow up and it comes from being in the Georgia Family....Unfortunate.
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:40 PM
 
1,666 posts, read 2,344,101 times
Reputation: 486
People always talking about transit transit yet if it was expanded every where people would still wanna drive. Think about all the cities that are the same size as Atlanta and dont have rail transit..
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