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What does that have to do with anything? You're changing the subject - which was cities that don't have gridded streets. You asked for an example and I gave you one...and now you come back with an excuse for it. Whatever.
What does that have to do with anything? A lot actually. Boston doesn't have a grid system, but it has a strong mass transit system to make up for that. And Boston is really you're only good example. Boston has one of the worst road layouts in America.
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Compared to any city in Texas or the South, Atlanta HAS a top-notch mass transit system. No other system can even come close to touching MARTA, so what is your point?
Nope. You're giving MARTA too much credit. Atlanta has the upper hand in the rail department (for now), since heavy rail has higher capacities than light rail. Houston has a better bus and HOV system than Atlanta. Dallas' HOV system is pathetic, but it does have a great light rail system, that just doubled in size.
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It's so tiresome trying to educate the ignorant on MARTA's expansion plans. They are abundant, and all you have to do is a bit of research to find them. Go to the website and look into it and you'll shut up about it.
I did that already. I'm giving the upper hand to Houston and Dallas because their own are already under construction (Houston) or nearing completion (Dallas). But why are you getting so hostile? I can "go to the website and shut up about it"? How do you know I didn't already look?
What does that have to do with anything? A lot actually. Boston doesn't have a grid system, but it has a strong mass transit system to make up for that. And Boston is really you're only good example. Boston has one of the worst road layouts in America.
Nope. You're giving MARTA too much credit. Atlanta has the upper hand in the rail department (for now), since heavy rail has higher capacities than light rail. Houston has a better bus and HOV system than Atlanta. Dallas' HOV system is pathetic, but it does have a great light rail system, that just doubled in size.
I did that already. I'm giving the upper hand to Houston and Dallas because their own are already under construction (Houston) or nearing completion (Dallas). But why are you getting so hostile? I can "go to the website and shut up about it"? How do you know I didn't already look?
Again, we were discussing gridded streets - not transit systems. You didn't like it when I told you the reasons for many of Atlanta's winding streets, then you came back with excuses for the streets in Boston. Your discussion skills just don't make sense. Cities are different for a variety of reasons. I happen to like the meandering streets throughout Atlanta...if you don't, then fine - to each his own. But don't act like it's a black mark on the city.
Compared to MARTA, the fledgling Dallas and Houston systems are barely in existence. There is no point in even comparing these systems to MARTA...incidentally, have you ever even SEEN MARTA? You act like you're an expert on it and you're trying to sell people who use the system regularly on your unfounded opinions of it. If you had researched MARTA's expansion plans you wouldn't make comments such as "MARTA has no plans for expansion" and other such hogwash. Seriously, go look and educate yourself. (BTW, there is no hostility here...but I can' even count the number of times I've responded to very similar comments about MARTA on this site. People should really be informed on a subject before spouting off about it.)
I say all of the Atlanta members should take a trip over to the Houston threads and chime in on any and every subject that we know nothing about - and see what the reactions are. On second thought, the Atlanta members that I've encountered have usually been too classy for such immature antics. Still, it would be interesting to see how "hostile" people would get.
I don't know why some people are SO fascinated with Atlanta...I guess it's just a truly fascinating city.
I say all of the Atlanta members should take a trip over to the Houston threads and chime in on any and every subject that we know nothing about - and see what the reactions are. On second thought, the Atlanta members that I've encountered have usually been too classy for such immature antics. Still, it would be interesting to see how "hostile" people would get.
I don't know why some people are SO fascinated with Atlanta...I guess it's just a truly fascinating city.
That's sound like a great Idea Deacon.But I guess I just don't give a damn what goes on in the Texas threads enough to care what they say over there.I guess that means Atlanta really is the **** if they are over here meddling.lol
...For instance this recession is hurting Charlotte alot more than it hurting Atlanta.Just look at the unemployment rates at CHT 11.9% vs ATL 10.4.Both cities will bounce back but almost all economist agree that Atlanta is very diverse and pretty much a permanent fixture on the scene.
I wouldn't say the recession is hurting Charlotte much more than Atlanta. The unemployment rates for both areas are pretty much in the same ballpark, especially when you consider the vast majority of people in Charlotte live and work in Mecklenburg country where the unemployment rate recently dived to 10.1% (Atlanta's is 9.8%). And below is a recent national article that speaks to how Charlotte is bouncing back from the recesssion and its recent success at diversifying its econcomy, including attracting hundreds of jobs with the relocation of two North American headquarters formerly based in Georgia, Electrolux and Husqvarna...
And DeconJ, the comments about Fortune 500 companies was for the earlier poster who bragged about how many more Fortune 500 companies there were in Atlanta compared to those other cities mentioned in the OP's article. As for the school rankings, it is, what it is. Charlotte is the top urban district in that study, of which Atlanta was included, period...
I think Scarface makes some very astute comments. It's unfortunate that there are some very insecure posters in the Atlanta forum who cherrypick his points and ignore the heart of his argument. He's not bashing Atlanta at all, just presenting facts to clear up many of the distorted myths that muddy this particular C-D forum.
Some of you are just so inexplicably gung-ho about Atlanta that you fail to see (or at least fail to admit that you see) many of its fatal flaws.
Here's what I (and many, many others) have gathered from this thread:
1) Dallas, Atlanta and Houston all are typical Sunbelt cities that tend to sprawl.
2) Dallas, Atlanta and Houston have made significant improvements in their urban core in the past decade.
3) Dallas, Houston and North Carolina's cities have better relationships with their state gov't than Georgia does.
4) Dallas and Houston are built on grid street patterns which allow for better densification than Atlanta's winding streets. Why? Because grid patterns funnel traffic off of main arteries allowing for walkable communities with a more balanced flow of traffic.
5) It is not stated whether Dallas and Houston have sidewalks on their side streets -- many (but not all) of Atlanta's streets have no sidewalks. No sidewalks = a city that is less walkable and more dangerous to pedestrians and less able to densify.
6) Boston has winding streets similar to Atlanta. However, its extensive mass transit and subway system has helped to make it a more walkable and much denser city (among many other reasons, which include a healthier city/state relationship).
7) We're just getting out of a recession that for various reasons stopped Atlanta's growth, but did not slow Dallas' and Houston's growth. Unemployment in Charlotte is higher than Atlanta -- is it possible that Charlotte's growth came to a standstill during the recession?
8) To the comment above that Atlanta is fascinating. Absolutely not. Atlanta is not any more fascinating than any other mid-tier city in America. The reason that the Atlanta C-D forum is fascinating and thoroughly entertaining, is that the thread topics and the hyper-defensive comebacks, are so over the top that like a bad car accident you can't help but look.
Again, we were discussing gridded streets - not transit systems. You didn't like it when I told you the reasons for many of Atlanta's winding streets, then you came back with excuses for the streets in Boston. Your discussion skills just don't make sense. Cities are different for a variety of reasons. I happen to like the meandering streets throughout Atlanta...if you don't, then fine - to each his own. But don't act like it's a black mark on the city.
First of all, I've known that about Atlanta's roads for a long time. That's not a very good excuse for the leaders of today to not at least increase capacities on those roads, etc. And if that wasn't possible, then expand the transit system. Neither happened. And I have long since said that the roads in Atlanta look very nice, but would you rather go for looks or connectivity? And to many, they are a black mark on the city. With the layout of Atlanta, it creates horrible traffic conditions on the secondary streets.
And please name the excuses I've made for Boston's streets. All I said is that Boston can get away with its horrible street layout because it has a top-notch transit system. Atlanta can't get away with it, because its transit system isn't top-notch.
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Compared to MARTA, the fledgling Dallas and Houston systems are barely in existence. There is no point in even comparing these systems to MARTA...incidentally, have you ever even SEEN MARTA? You act like you're an expert on it and you're trying to sell people who use the system regularly on your unfounded opinions of it. If you had researched MARTA's expansion plans you wouldn't make comments such as "MARTA has no plans for expansion" and other such hogwash. Seriously, go look and educate yourself. (BTW, there is no hostility here...but I can' even count the number of times I've responded to very similar comments about MARTA on this site. People should really be informed on a subject before spouting off about it.)
You completely wrong about Houston and Dallas' transit agencies compared to MARTA. MARTA has the upper hand in the rail service, but Houston has the upper hand in the bus service and HOV lanes. Dallas has more miles of rail track than MARTA, by the way. It's just that Dallas' is light rail and not heavy rail, so the capacities are smaller. Also, upon the completion of Houston's next rail expansion in 2013/14, it'll have the same amount of track that MARTA does currently.
I shouldn't have said that there were no plans for expansion for MARTA, because there clearly are. I was more talking about heavy rail expansion anyway though. Also, you talk about me needing to educate myself, but you're making some outlandish claims about Houston and Dallas' transit agencies, too.
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Originally Posted by DeaconJ
I say all of the Atlanta members should take a trip over to the Houston threads and chime in on any and every subject that we know nothing about - and see what the reactions are. On second thought, the Atlanta members that I've encountered have usually been too classy for such immature antics. Still, it would be interesting to see how "hostile" people would get.
I don't know why some people are SO fascinated with Atlanta...I guess it's just a truly fascinating city.
No one is stopping you. You can visit any forum you want. Also, this is the only thread that I've been on in the Atlanta section. I can't even remember the last time I posted in this section...if I even did. Probably just read and left. And are you calling what I'm saying is immature? What am I saying that is so out of line? Or is it because I'm from Texas? Like I said, I've had plenty of Atlanta posters give me rep points and comment that they agree with what I'm saying. Yet, you have a big problem with it...because I'm from TEXAS? Grow up.
7) We're just getting out of a recession that for various reasons stopped Atlanta's growth, but did not slow Dallas' and Houston's growth. Unemployment in Charlotte is higher than Atlanta -- is it possible that Charlotte's growth came to a standstill during the recession?
Has this been clearly demonstrated with concrete numbers? I know the article cited some numbers, but I'm not sure we'll really know enough until the big numbers come out next year as to where things really stand, will we?
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Originally Posted by back2dc
8) To the comment above that Atlanta is fascinating. Absolutely not. Atlanta is not any more fascinating than any other mid-tier city in America.
Not sure I'm with you here back2dc. Fascination tends to be in the eye of the observer you know?
Has this been clearly demonstrated with concrete numbers? I know the article cited some numbers, but I'm not sure we'll really know enough until the big numbers come out next year as to where things really stand, will we?
The Census actually has yearly estimates. Nothing is concrete until the 2010 Census, but the yearly estimates are only a few thousand off (usually). The Census also revises previous yearly estimates during the decade when the annual estimates come out. What the author posted is straight from the Census. Actually, Houston and Dallas' growth increased during the recession (Houston's especially).
Population Estimates (http://www.census.gov/popest/metro/CBSA-est2009-pop-chg.html - broken link)
(http://www.census.gov/popest/metro/metro.html - broken link)
While the future Beltline and MARTA give Atlanta an edge over it's southern competition, those other southern cities have the power the build their own BETTER "martas" and their own "beltlines" ahead of time. They have the ability to learn from the mistakes/stupidity of the political leaders of Atlanta. They also aren't all blinded by race, so unlike Atlanta, they (the political leaders) have a strong desire to attract outside demographics which Atlanta doesn't.
Nashville, for example, attracts a lot of New Yorkers over Atlanta because of quality of life issues and the problems they see in Atlanta. Nashville also has the opportunity to do things right. It's going to be very difficult for Atlanta to dig itself out of its incompetence/stupidity.
Atlanta may be ahead of the game today as far as numbers and statistics, but that truly is ignorant/stupid to assume that nobody else will catch up with SMARTER growth policies and better political leadership.
Let the water issue in Georgia be a good example of the stupidity of the people here, and their lack of planning or care about the future. They are so stuck in their pride that they just assume that water would not run out!!!! They claim in Georgia that they are a sovereign state yet they relied ALLLLL upon the Federal Gov't for their water supply for the past 50 years.. A federally built reserve from a trickling little mountain stream coming from the N. GA mountains. And THEN when the drought hits they just assume that the rest of the region will just have to suffer because Atlanta is somehow more deserving of the water because they GREW MORE in the past 20 years than the rest!!
This type of brainless stupidity is why this journaliist wrote this, and why many people from around the country do not respect Atlanta. It's also one of a myriad of reasons why I'm getting the hell outta here real soon... Just need a few thousand dollars more in my bank account because I'm not able to get a job before I move in my career industry....
Last edited by blondandfun; 05-31-2010 at 07:17 PM..
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