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Old 05-24-2010, 02:28 PM
 
7,848 posts, read 17,830,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
I guess I'm thinking of a city like DC where the train also doesn't extend very far into the suburbs. Even the people who don't live close to the train still make use of it if they work downtown. Whether they drive or take a bus to get to the station is a separate issue. The point is that they don't just skip the train and attempt to drive to downtown, unless it's during off-peak hours. If you lived in Marietta, I can understand why you wouldn't use the train since there's no track that runs northwest. But imagine if you lived in Alpharetta and worked downtown close to a train station. Would you still skip the train and go the whole way by car? Obviously, being able to reach a train station affects whether you'll use the train or not. In other cities, people who work downtown go out of their way to try and live near a train station. If they can't, a lot of them just avoid taking jobs in the city, which in a good job market I can certainly understand doing.
Again...your "sources" are incorrect. Can you provide a link that proves your theory that people in Alpharetta (and other North Fulton communities) who work downtown DON'T use MARTA? The fact is that those trains are fairly packed at rush hour, so I'm not understanding why you think that they aren't being utilized.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl View Post
It's really not the same thing, Denny. The UP NW line is commuter rail. MARTA is heavy rail, like the CTA (and costs upwards of $150 million per mile to build).

And I can promise you that Shady Grove is HARDLY 60 miles from the District - try 15.

You seem to be severly underestimating MARTA here.......
Whether it's commuter rail or heavy rail is irrelevant. The point is that someone living farther out in a suburb such as Marietta or Alpharetta who wants to use some form of public transit is severely limited. Now take someone who's the same distance away from downtown Chicago or DC who has to commute to the city, but doesn't want to sit in rush hour traffic. At least that person has another option. I'm not saying that MARTA is useless. It sounds like it's great for the people who actually use it. But seeing how it doesn't extend very far past the perimeter would make me less inclined to live farther from the city.

As for Shady Grove, you're right. Google Maps gave me the wrong value. But Gaithersburg is 27 miles out from downtown. That's the same distance as Alpharetta is from downtown Atlanta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Also, we should keep in mind that more transit isn't a cure all. The DC Metro keeps coming up in this thread, and it is a fine system, but even though it has over 100 miles of track, 1 million daily riders, and second only to the NYC subway in usage there is one little fact people often forget: DC has worse traffic than Atlanta.
No one has suggested that it is a cure all. But it's clear that having some kind of public transit alleviates freeway traffic. DC has awful traffic, but judging by how crowded their trains are, people obviously use it. Just imagine how much worse it would be if they didn't have any trains. With MARTA, I keep reading on this forum that they're never full. I realize that part of the reason for that is it isn't convenient for everyone. The same is true for many people in Chicago or DC. But I also can't help but wonder if there are people in Atlanta for whom it would be a convenient option who simply don't want to use it. Imagine if they did. That would certainly help the other drivers on the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
That's partly because driving in downtown DC can be a total mess, just like driving in NYC. Driving in downtown Atlanta is a piece of cake- there's no problem with gridlock, so it's not a big deal.

So, if I've got to drive halfway to town to get to a station, it's not worth the hassle to take the train the rest of the way.
It depends though on how the traffic is the rest of the way. In other cities, it's not uncommon for people have these half-and-half commutes. Sure it's tiresome to have to make that switch. But the alternative is to just drive the whole way. You make it sound like driving to the city during rush hour isn't that bad. But that contradicts what others on this forum have been saying about Atlanta traffic. Everyone says it's so horrible. Are they wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
Again...your "sources" are incorrect. Can you provide a link that proves your theory that people in Alpharetta (and other North Fulton communities) who work downtown DON'T use MARTA? The fact is that those trains are fairly packed at rush hour, so I'm not understanding why you think that they aren't being utilized.
Please go back and reread my post. Where does it say that people in Alpharetta aren't using MARTA? But BobKovacs just said in an earlier post that he'd rather drive the whole way than have to switch halfway. Suppose there are others who feel that way? Imagine how much that would clog traffic if a lot of people from Alpharetta chose not to use the train even though it would take them to their destination.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:47 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,800 posts, read 11,751,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
No one has suggested that it is a cure all. But it's clear that having some kind of public transit alleviates freeway traffic. DC has awful traffic, but judging by how crowded their trains are, people obviously use it. Just imagine how much worse it would be if they didn't have any trains. With MARTA, I keep reading on this forum that they're never full. I realize that part of the reason for that is it isn't convenient for everyone. The same is true for many people in Chicago or DC. But I also can't help but wonder if there are people in Atlanta for whom it would be a convenient option who simply don't want to use it. Imagine if they did. That would certainly help the other drivers on the road.
Reading on a forum and actually seeing everyday are two different things. The trains always full during morning and afternoon rush hour and the last time I can remember a MARTA train being empty was on 9/11.

Besides, this is not something that is up for speculation. Close to 300,000 people use MARTA trains each day, and another 230,000 use just the buses alone. This is a combined ridership of 500,000. For a service area with 1.8 million people, how exactly is MARTA underutilized if close to a third of the service area population uses it each day?

Just look at our stats. Only 6 cities have better subway ridership than MARTA, and two of them (San Franciso and Philadelphia) only have marginally more daily riders.

http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship_APTA.pdf
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:56 PM
 
213 posts, read 363,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
Chicago's Union Pacific Northwest line goes all the way to Harvard, IL which is 75 miles from the city. DC's Red Line goes all the way to Shady Grove, MD which is 60 miles from the city. Alpharetta is 28 miles from the city. But the nearest MARTA station is 12 miles down 400.



I talked to others on this forum. I also talked to people outside this forum. Whenever I asked why traffic was so bad in Atlanta and whether MARTA was helping with it, they all said the same thing. If more people used it, traffic might not be as bad.


I think you need to google ridership for Marta.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:57 PM
 
213 posts, read 363,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
Again...your "sources" are incorrect. Can you provide a link that proves your theory that people in Alpharetta (and other North Fulton communities) who work downtown DON'T use MARTA? The fact is that those trains are fairly packed at rush hour, so I'm not understanding why you think that they aren't being utilized.
He or she is dont know what they are talking about. Ived WOrked in Alpharetta before and there are lots of people in Alpharetta that drive to North SPrings and ride to work
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:47 AM
 
1,197 posts, read 3,364,550 times
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If someone does not use MARTA to do an Alpharetta to downtown commute, there could be two reasons:

(1) the worst traffic is usually outside the perimeter (OTP). So after negotiating the toughest part of the commute, for all the work involved in ride-to-station/park/walk/wait-for-train, some people just drive all the way. In my opinion, this is a prime reason.

(2) in the past (say 10 years ago), MARTA might have had a poor reputation for timeliness etc. So some might not be willing to give it a second chance.
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:49 AM
 
8,468 posts, read 13,247,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulchild23 View Post
He or she is dont know what they are talking about. Ived WOrked in Alpharetta before and there are lots of people in Alpharetta that drive to North SPrings and ride to work
Good grief. Apparently you and DeaconJ can't read. Where did I ever say that people in Alpharetta don't make use of MARTA? I merely asked whether there were such people. BobKovacs said that he'd rather drive the whole way than have to switch halfway. I doubt he's the only one who feels that way. Asking whether there are such people is NOT the same thing as saying everyone in Alpharetta is like that.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:36 AM
JPD
 
11,883 posts, read 14,498,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post

Besides, this is not something that is up for speculation. Close to 300,000 people use MARTA trains each day, and another 230,000 use just the buses alone. This is a combined ridership of 500,000. For a service area with 1.8 million people, how exactly is MARTA underutilized if close to a third of the service area population uses it each day?


I think your analysis of the numbers is off. You have to take into consideration that the vast majority of riders get on the bus or train more than once per day (once to go wherever they're going, and once to return). Some riders make more than two rides per day.

500,000 individual people do not ride MARTA per day. 500,000 trips are taken on MARTA per day.

So, the ridership is more like a sixth of the service area population, at best.

Still a pretty good percentage, in any case.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:50 AM
 
213 posts, read 363,135 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Reading on a forum and actually seeing everyday are two different things. The trains always full during morning and afternoon rush hour and the last time I can remember a MARTA train being empty was on 9/11.

Besides, this is not something that is up for speculation. Close to 300,000 people use MARTA trains each day, and another 230,000 use just the buses alone. This is a combined ridership of 500,000. For a service area with 1.8 million people, how exactly is MARTA underutilized if close to a third of the service area population uses it each day?

Just look at our stats. Only 6 cities have better subway ridership than MARTA, and two of them (San Franciso and Philadelphia) only have marginally more daily riders.

http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship_APTA.pdf

Great Post dude... I usually dont have time to pull that stuff up you guys do a really good job.. I really get tired of people saying marta isnt this or that. WHen alot of Major cities dont even have a subway system
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:54 AM
 
213 posts, read 363,135 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
Good grief. Apparently you and DeaconJ can't read. Where did I ever say that people in Alpharetta don't make use of MARTA? I merely asked whether there were such people. BobKovacs said that he'd rather drive the whole way than have to switch halfway. I doubt he's the only one who feels that way. Asking whether there are such people is NOT the same thing as saying everyone in Alpharetta is like that.

You never said it but just go back and read the things you wrote... If you gathered the post you left one would definately think you were saying Marta is never really used... We have provided Facts and answered your questions and showed you that marta is used widely... somehow you keep fighting what we are telling you.. And bringing up DC and NYC and all these other places.
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