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Old 02-22-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,125 posts, read 21,219,040 times
Reputation: 4706
Good news for Buckhead (again... finally), but it's rather sad that it took a company from San Diego to get the act together again.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,731 posts, read 2,765,200 times
Reputation: 1897
Quote:
Originally Posted by blondandfun View Post
If this were a carless or water-feature development I might take interest, but a bunch of buildings erected around public streets might be "innovative" here in Georgia but it's actually quite laughable to anybody knowledgeable. I've seen the site plan and I honestly don't see what the whole hoopla is around this other than the fact that they decimated an existing entertainment district. Most other cities around the country the city would contribute funds and engineering to make the streets walkable and sustainable and making the whole project one cohesive accomplishment, but here in Atlanta it's all 100% private developers who are doing all the work in this city, but even they are pretty shoddy by national standards. Landing a big box retailer is great and all, but there has to be SOMETHING else to look forward to.

If it weren't for the buckhead of the past and its history this development would not be worthy of mention IMO. I could care less about some idiot developer loser money on this. it wan't really that well thought out to begin with.
I'm going to have to disagree with you, because you are overlooking one major detail many people often overlook.

Keep in mind most parts of Atlanta were built as a suburb. One of the biggest problems (and costs) developers often face is finding larger tracts of land to meet proper zoning standards for larger, denser, and mixed use developments.

The Streets of Buckhead is unique in that it was a private developer going through the high costs of buying up smaller lots, with sparser less dense land use to be repurposed for larger, denser, and potentially more valuable projects.

This is a problem this city will have to learn to address with in the future. Many of our older properties were subdivided into small lots 50-100 years ago, but the economic reality of many redevelopments is they need larger plots of land.

The brownfield sites are often use to get around this since they are large, but they also are usually in bad areas and need expensive environmental clean up. That is what is exciting about the Beltline and Atlantic Station. However, eventually they will run out and will be limited into where redevelopment can go and this will be an increasingly more common issue moving into the future.

I would also like to spot out... that the most densest most transit happy places on earth have plenty of cars and streets. Just visit Manhattan. Transit, pedestrian/bike friendly, mixed use, and many other things are all great things, but that doesn't mean the need for car access and streets ever completely goes away. It just increases access capacity via other means, offers choice, and offers convenience.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:34 PM
 
14,596 posts, read 9,197,056 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTL3000 View Post
I've always thought it was suspicious how this Carter guy popped up with everything laid out right after the clubs closed. I suspect a crooked land deal but what can us peons do about it?
What makes you think it was crooked? Carter spent a couple of years of bargaining and haggling to acquire the land, not to mention a small fortune. He also had to spend a few years negotiating with the neighborhoods and city planning.

Quote:
I think killing those clubs and bars in Buckhead killed a big part of this city's character, and I'm not even a party guy. That was the only legitimate entertainment district in this city.
You're right that Buckhead was the city's entertainment district but SOB isn't the reason it shut down. It had ticked along fine for years but for some reason it suddenly turned violent. A number of people were killed as the result of stabbings and shootings. There were even some drive-by shootings. Cruising increased dramatically, as did extremely loud music and trash on the streets. The police were also concerned about narcotics being sold. That's why the city shut down the Village -- for some reason it went from a lively club district to out of control.


As to high-end retail and residential, I don't see that as a problem. A lot of big cities have that and do okay.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Arlington, Va
2,087 posts, read 1,909,372 times
Reputation: 1872
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
What makes you think it was crooked? Carter spent a couple of years of bargaining and haggling to acquire the land, not to mention a small fortune. He also had to spend a few years negotiating with the neighborhoods and city planning.



You're right that Buckhead was the city's entertainment district but SOB isn't the reason it shut down. It had ticked along fine for years but for some reason it suddenly turned violent. A number of people were killed as the result of stabbings and shootings. There were even some drive-by shootings. Cruising increased dramatically, as did extremely loud music and trash on the streets. The police were also concerned about narcotics being sold. That's why the city shut down the Village -- for some reason it went from a lively club district to out of control.


As to high-end retail and residential, I don't see that as a problem. A lot of big cities have that and do okay.
As to point number one; mainly it's my spidey sense that makes me feel this way but it seems like Carter had this planned out even before the last club closed.

Dos: I don't think SOB is the only reason it shut down but they way the whole thing went down seems odd to me. Yes, Buckhead Village had a rash of violence but I don't see why the APD couldn't have brought it under control. They could have cracked down hard on the nonsense, but the city decided to just take its ball and go home. Other cities can handle this sort of thing, why can't Atlanta?
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,731 posts, read 2,765,200 times
Reputation: 1897
Quote:
Originally Posted by blondandfun View Post
I obviously study cities and have some education since you know I've passionate about what I speak. Atlanta is a city of 500k, yet Oklahoma City, for example, is much smaller but growth-wise is a progressive city that I visited over holidays to visit friends and I was impressed. They already built a downtown Attraction in the early 90's and they are currently building one of the biggest urban redevelopments in the nation to connect downtown to the river. They are also currently finishing off an 850 ft skyscraper. They also have plans for bike lanes throughout the city.

Atlanta is studied extensively on what not to do. Atlanta is a joke that is not even on the consciousness of most people who have moved on to green pastors.


My opinion here is well known and I'm willing to be honest with you all. I have $12k saved but In this economy that is still not a lot to move away without a job secured. Please understand that I have family and friends and that it's hard to move to another city without a job lined up. My career is related to the development/construction industry... trust me if I could go back in time and be a nurse or go into software engineering I would have but for now I am stuck in a rut both careerwise and also living in Georgia which is like the bottom rung of society in America...... sorry but that's reality, get some education and you'll understand... I'm happy to accept PM's if anyone wants to help me out and get me the hell outta atlanta...
Wow!

See before I just disagreed with you... now I question much more than that.

I can't see what Eric's remarks were and what your beef with him is/was, but I am gong to discuss your comments relating to Atlanta.

How long have you been in Atlanta? It has changed very rapidly over the past 50 years and there have been lots of positive development, but after reading this... you would think there hadn't been and we have been growing at all and just upset our downtown wasn't built right next to a river.

Atlanta is a city that was built in an hills area with trees. That is our thing and I am sorry if you don't like it. We have drainage creeks and Atlanta was located between these smaller drainage basins and not along one. It is also not flat and very hard to control for aesthetic purposes. No to mention the potential flash flood control problems we have periodically being located in a humid, subtropical environment. This means we have to have larger development buffers, the larger a creek/river is depending on area elevations.

Oh... and I'm glad you have have an education and know alot about cities

btw, Oklahoma City actually has an ever slightly larger population than Atlanta with 579,000 people. The difference is the metropolitan size, which definitely affects how Atlanta (proper) functions... for example we have more business activity comparatively. This also means both cities are difference in who lives there, how they function, and how the interelate with their neighbors within their respective metropolitan regions.

Atlanta also has a bike path plan in place, as does Dekalb, Gwinnett, and Cobb. Parts of this plan are actually constructed and are in the works on long term plans. Being this is a big spread out city they stretch a long distnace and the funding happens in some places faster than others (it also often coincides with the redevelopment of roads.)
Compare the Google Bicycle maps of Atlanta, Oklahoma (and other cities). You will see alot of good, bad, and positive development to come.

We also built a major downtown attraction in the past. The problem is ultimately we are a city with past racial and socioeconomic problems. Many people consider it a bad area now for many of these related issues, but when it was new it was an exciting place to be.
We have since built new attractions (yes, through private development), but through market demand supported from our huge convention operations.

I Googled/aerial imaged the project in Oklahoma city. It looked nice and promising and I definitely won't put down another city for what they do well, but ultimately it is a small piece of their city and I don't think they are necessarily putting Atlanta progressiveness to shame with this by itself. But nonetheless it does look nice... If anyone else wants to see it... oklahoma city, ok - Google Maps

The difference we have is we are undertaking far bigger projects, but projects that take alot of time and money, but affect many neighborhoods (Beltline with a $3 billion price tag).

I travel alot for work and have visited alot of cities across the world. Alot of them have done different things that make it easy to get excited about. But, I have noticed two things. It is easy to see what is new and exciting and took years of planning in one place and forget about what is nice about where you are from and took many many years. It is also easy to focus on a new redeveloped area and forget you are not seeing the whole city and how the typical person lives and how much it extends out to all residents.

If you want progressive.. I know it gets irritating when we are having trouble building expensive things like transit systems, but you can't forget what we already have built in the past either. We might face funding road blocks now, but we didn't in an era when most other cities in this country did. Yes, I'm talking about MARTA. I admit I hate that it doesn't go everywhere all over the metro, but to many visitors it hits our main business centers, convention centers, airport and is a very good system given it's size and for a city this size.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:51 AM
 
14,596 posts, read 9,197,056 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTL3000 View Post
Yes, Buckhead Village had a rash of violence but I don't see why the APD couldn't have brought it under control.
I think it was more than just a "rash" of violence. A dozen people or so were killed over the course of a few years, whereas that had never happened at all during the previous decade. They did step up police patrols and private security and cameras were installed as well. They even called in the Guardian Angels. But you can't really police people who are bound and determined to act like idiots.
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
969 posts, read 1,049,554 times
Reputation: 618
Looks like they found the money to finish it too...

Baupost has $300M to restart ?Streets of Buckhead? | Atlanta Business Chronicle
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Old 02-23-2011, 08:18 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,113 posts, read 3,117,993 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I think it was more than just a "rash" of violence. A dozen people or so were killed over the course of a few years, whereas that had never happened at all during the previous decade. They did step up police patrols and private security and cameras were installed as well. They even called in the Guardian Angels. But you can't really police people who are bound and determined to act like idiots.
It was mayor Campbell I believe who had a chip on his shoulder about Buckhead and pulled strings to have APD all but abandon patrolling that area. That's when crime happened. Mayor Campbell's term was not a good reflection on Atlanta's racial history.

Anyway, will be excited to see the cranes moving from human operation instead of wind soon!
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:38 AM
 
3,130 posts, read 2,954,702 times
Reputation: 1528
No what happened is Buckhead started to redevelop and add residents and these people were not hot on an "entertainment district" near where they lived. The addition of some crime didn't help.

Atlanta is full of **** wanting to be a true global city when everything shuts down at 9pm and Wal-mArt is your only option. That strip of clubs was great for the city, people all over would go there to eat, drink, dance and have fun.

Rich conservatives don't like that and shut it down. They think Atlanta should be gone with the wind or something.

Want to have fun in Atlanta after 9pm, go to aisle 3 in Wal-mart.

Lame
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:43 AM
 
14,596 posts, read 9,197,056 times
Reputation: 3448
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWatson13 View Post
That strip of clubs was great for the city, people all over would go there to eat, drink, dance and have fun.

Rich conservatives don't like that and shut it down. They think Atlanta should be gone with the wind or something.

That strip of clubs was great for the city. Zillions of folks from all over went there to eat, drink, dance and have fun, and that went on for over a decade with no problem.

What changed is that the crowd suddenly became violent around 1999. Over the next few years 10 or more people were killed in shootings and stabbings. Cruising and ultra loud music got out of control. Narcotics were being sold and the area was trashed beyond belief. Liquor licenses were circumvented when some club owners began leasing their facilities for "private parties" to people who would otherwise not be able to get a license.

That's what caused the clubs to be shut down. Eating, drinking, dancing and having fun is one thing and that was never the problem. A bunch of idiots running amok is another.
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