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But not the best way. MARTA loses its choice riders this way and the ones lost will not become regular riders.
Its better than deferring track maintenance and ending up with track issues like WMATA. When it comes to track maintenance, I want them to not rush and make sure they take their time. Trains with hundreds of people, weighing tons, doing speeds up to 70mph.
Track maintenance is continuous....as it is on every passenger rail network in the world. I'm not sure why anyone thinks MARTA is different in this respect.
Just taking a look at the London Underground website reveals that on the Jubilee Line there is planned maintenance on 7 out of the next 8 weekends. This isn't single tracking but actually closure of the line or part of the line.
Its done on the weekend when ridership is lower.
And please stop asking when the single tracking will end on the weekend....it won't. Its part and parcel of running a big city metro. You don't just stop maintaining.
Its better than deferring track maintenance and ending up with track issues like WMATA. When it comes to track maintenance, I want them to not rush and make sure they take their time. Trains with hundreds of people, weighing tons, doing speeds up to 70mph.
WMATA was a problem from the top down. It wasn't just some bad maintenance on one part, it was a problem with the safety culture from the top. Spending 11 years on maintenance is certainly not "rushing" by any stretch, nor would doing something other than the current weekend fiasco be "rushing." You could have the safest transit system in the world, but if it doesn't serve the people it's supposed to then what's the point of running it at all?
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Originally Posted by ATLondoner
Track maintenance is continuous....as it is on every passenger rail network in the world. I'm not sure why anyone thinks MARTA is different in this respect.
Just taking a look at the London Underground website reveals that on the Jubilee Line there is planned maintenance on 7 out of the next 8 weekends. This isn't single tracking but actually closure of the line or part of the line.
Its done on the weekend when ridership is lower.
But for how long has ti been going on? How long past those 7 or 8 weekends will it go on? The fact that they're shutting down the line entirely says to me that this is an isolated event. Even if it goes on for say 20 weeks, that's better than MARTA's 572 weeks of bad service. Most people would rather have no service and have to find an alternative than have bad service that doesn't run as advertised.
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And please stop asking when the single tracking will end on the weekend....it won't. Its part and parcel of running a big city metro. You don't just stop maintaining.
No, but there are better ways. New York City just shut down an entire trunk line each night. Now since MARTA only runs during the day, and since it has only two tracks, why aren't they accomplishing this work at night?
WMATA was a problem from the top down. It wasn't just some bad maintenance on one part, it was a problem with the safety culture from the top. Spending 11 years on maintenance is certainly not "rushing" by any stretch, nor would doing something other than the current weekend fiasco be "rushing." You could have the safest transit system in the world, but if it doesn't serve the people it's supposed to then what's the point of running it at all?
But for how long has ti been going on? How long past those 7 or 8 weekends will it go on? The fact that they're shutting down the line entirely says to me that this is an isolated event. Even if it goes on for say 20 weeks, that's better than MARTA's 572 weeks of bad service. Most people would rather have no service and have to find an alternative than have bad service that doesn't run as advertised.
No, but there are better ways. New York City just shut down an entire trunk line each night. Now since MARTA only runs during the day, and since it has only two tracks, why aren't they accomplishing this work at night?
I really don't agree that 20 weekends of closures is better than say 40 weekends of 24 minute service intervals. In London its possible to re-route due to the extensive bus and tube service but here if the red line is down you are pretty much screwed if you rely on public transport to get from Lindbergh to the Airport for example.
No, but there are better ways. New York City just shut down an entire trunk line each night. Now since MARTA only runs during the day, and since it has only two tracks, why aren't they accomplishing this work at night?
MARTA is only closed for roughly 2 hours or so a night so how much work could they accomplish in that time frame?
You guys would lose your mind in NYC with their various track maintenance during the overnight/weekends.
I really don't agree that 20 weekends of closures is better than say 40 weekends of 24 minute service intervals. In London its possible to re-route due to the extensive bus and tube service but here if the red line is down you are pretty much screwed if you rely on public transport to get from Lindbergh to the Airport for example.
Except it's not 40 weekends, it's been 572 and counting! Atlanta's smaller size is actually an advantage here. Bus service could be setup to provide service from the stations. It wouldn't be quite as fast, but it would get the people that absolutely HAVE to travel where they need to go. Weekend bus frequencies are reduced anyways, and there are plenty of the express motorcoaches sitting around doing nothing on the weekends.
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Originally Posted by PKCorey
MARTA is only closed for roughly 2 hours or so a night so how much work could they accomplish in that time frame?
Well maybe they can extend the window a bit into the evening. Maybe even all the way back to 9pm when the turnbacks start.
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You guys would lose your mind in NYC with their various track maintenance during the overnight/weekends.
I've been there and it was fine. Yes, there were adjustments, but it wasn't nearly as unreliable as MARTA's weekend service.
^OK, let's take this weekend for example. There is no construction on the blue or green lines, meaning each will run on the normal weekend 20 minute schedule. So east-west travel will have an average 5 minute wait in the core where the lines overlap (Ashby to King) and an average 10 minute wait for the outlying stations.
Meanwhile, for north-south, there is single tracking. A gold line train will run every 24 minutes, with a second train running just to arts center inbetween, for one train every 12 minutes. So for most of the stations (the 13 stations between airport and arts center), the average wait will be 6 minutes. To get to the 5 outlying stations on the gold line (lindbergh to doraville), the average wait will be 12 minutes. The only stations with a potentially long wait are the 5 red line stations from Buckhead to North Springs, because people will have to transfer.
So let's sum that up for this weekend:
Five Point will have an average wait of 5 minutes east-west and 6 minutes north-south.
5 stations with an average wait of 5 minutes.
12 stations with an average wait of 6 minutes.
10 stations with an average wait of 10 minutes.
5 stations with an average wait of 12 minutes.
5 stations that require a transfer - average wait of 10 minutes plus transfer wait.
And this is really the worst-case scenario. 24 minute single tracking is not the norm on weekends. For example, the following weekend (May 17-18) is a 20 minute single tracking schedule for the north-south lines.
You're really overstating the problem. Sure it's not ideal to have to wait 12 minutes or have to transfer, but it's not the end of the world, and as multiple people have pointed out you can use an app or look online to plan exactly when the train will be there. Takes 15 seconds on your phone to look it up. And your statement that it's been 572 weekends in a row is not true. They often don't single track on busier weekends (holidays, final four, etc), and they don't always single track on all of the lines. For example, for people who live in Decatur or Vine City, this weekend is just a normal schedule because there is no single tracking on the east-west lines.
General maintenance will always be needed and that is what night time is for. You cant compare the MTA which is 100 yrs old to something from the 70's. There is no reason for single tracking every single weekend for 10+ years. Im truly conceived who ever is working on the tracks, slows the work rate down to ensure job security.
And 15 min headway means the closest train is more than 10 miles away, so by now MARTA should have been able to work out a schedule with single tracking that doesnt have to make them run trains every 20+ mins.
I really wish MARTA would stop doing single tracking on Memorial Day weekend on Saturday, with the Jazz Fest, Caribbean Parade, Braves Game, and many other activities going on.
On the weekends, just drive to where ever you have to go, if you have a car, the $5 train fair just isnt worth it, unless your going to downtown or the airport.
^OK, let's take this weekend for example. There is no construction on the blue or green lines, meaning each will run on the normal weekend 20 minute schedule. So east-west travel will have an average 5 minute wait in the core where the lines overlap (Ashby to King) and an average 10 minute wait for the outlying stations.
Meanwhile, for north-south, there is single tracking. A gold line train will run every 24 minutes, with a second train running just to arts center inbetween, for one train every 12 minutes. So for most of the stations (the 13 stations between airport and arts center), the average wait will be 6 minutes. To get to the 5 outlying stations on the gold line (lindbergh to doraville), the average wait will be 12 minutes. The only stations with a potentially long wait are the 5 red line stations from Buckhead to North Springs, because people will have to transfer.
So let's sum that up for this weekend:
Five Point will have an average wait of 5 minutes east-west and 6 minutes north-south.
5 stations with an average wait of 5 minutes.
12 stations with an average wait of 6 minutes.
10 stations with an average wait of 10 minutes.
5 stations with an average wait of 12 minutes.
5 stations that require a transfer - average wait of 10 minutes plus transfer wait.
I'm sorry but you're only looking at part of the system. That page is specially setup because the alternate Gold Line trains are something new. But if you look at the regular single tracking page, the Blue and Green Lines are on their 20 minute schedules, with the Green Line only shuttling between Bankhead and Vine City with single tracking at East Lake and Decatur. Regardless, they're still cutting the Lindbergh-Airport headways to 24 minutes from a normal maximum of 20 minutes and a normal schedule of 10 minutes.
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And this is really the worst-case scenario. 24 minute single tracking is not the norm on weekends. For example, the following weekend (May 17-18) is a 20 minute single tracking schedule for the north-south lines.
You're really overstating the problem. Sure it's not ideal to have to wait 12 minutes or have to transfer, but it's not the end of the world, and as multiple people have pointed out you can use an app or look online to plan exactly when the train will be there. Takes 15 seconds on your phone to look it up. And your statement that it's been 572 weekends in a row is not true. They often don't single track on busier weekends (holidays, final four, etc), and they don't always single track on all of the lines. For example, for people who live in Decatur or Vine City, this weekend is just a normal schedule because there is no single tracking on the east-west lines.
24 minute schedules happen very frequently, enough so that you can't count on any given weekend being 20 or 24 minutes, or red and green line truncation or not. Plus, the next weekend )17th and 18th) is listed as being one of these weekends. It varies so often it's impossible to keep track of. Then there are the times that they start out doing 20 minute schedules and go to 24 minutes because they can't figure out how to keep to schedule. Then they stop doing the single tracking at some point with no notification so all of a sudden you're on the wb platform and have to scramble over to the eb platform because they don't bother putting signs up saying single tracking is over (remember, not every station is an island platform, or has handicapped access to the island platform [Five Points])
Maybe it hasn't been exactly 572 weeks. Even if they did a full year without single tracking, or skipped enough weekends over the last 11 years to get rid of a year's worth of weekends, that's still over 500 weekends of unreliable service.
You're already scheduling your life around everything else. I bet you already schedule your drives around traffic anyways. I don't see why people keep bringing up this argument as a reason not to have transit. People all over the place get along just fine having to "worry" about a train schedule.
Where did I ever say we don't need transit? Stop imagining things.
There are facts to deal with here and thankfully MARTA is addressing them. People with cars aren't going to schedule their life around the train. Outside of commuting during traditional work hours, driving will be faster door to door in 93 out 100 instances.
The less I have to think about when the next train arrives, the more I and many more will use it.
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