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Old 06-20-2010, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
653 posts, read 1,787,719 times
Reputation: 276

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A basement is not trivial, and because it may impact the stability of the surrounding property, then it makes sense for it to require a permit.

For many other things, I should need the permission of the mortgage company (if the house is not paid off), if there is a risk to the property value.

As for my own life, I have a right to risk that (but maybe I should only have this right if I have insurance to cover all the costs associated with the loss of my life).

Sometimes we are not aware of the potential effect our actions might have on others.

But I agree that the requirement for permits has gone too far, and has become more self serving to the the department that issues them, then of service to the rest of us.
But it is because of the extremes, not the concept itself.
So I need a permit to to put a light in my driveway with a motion detector or to add a paving stone?
Do I need a permit to plant a tree in my back yard?

Do I need a permit to paint the house?
What about a light bulb, can I change a light bulb without a permit?
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Old 06-20-2010, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Yucaipa, California
9,894 posts, read 21,935,396 times
Reputation: 6844
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn View Post
Most of the remodeling that is done on homes in Austin is done without a permit. The requirements for when they are required are vague and have been even more vague in the past. The fact that a home has had some remodeling done on it without a permit is not at all unusual.

Garage conversions for example. why the He** do you need a permit to convert this into a living space? There are no life, safety, health issues being compromised here, it is completely unreasonable.

Why should you need a building permit to replace the siding on your house, or your roof?

Why do you need a building permit to install a ceiling fan where you once had a light fixture?

Why do you need a building permit to add an automatic garage door opener?? Or a sensor detector on your driveway light so it turns on if someone drives up??

Why do you need a building permit to add a few paving stepping stones in the areas where no grass will grow, so you don't have to walk thru the mud????

The requirements are onerous and extreme, I can say so since I have sat they the absurd, complex and time consuming process of getting permits in these kinds of cases, and as a result, they are being ignored by the majority of Austin citizens when they remodel their houses.

They ignore it because it is a stupid and onerous infringement on their rights as property owners. Perhaps we need more property owners rights law suits against the City, the way that the Governator has sued the US over States rights in TX.

If the rights of private property owners bother you, then you should go sell shoes.
permits cost you money which the city gets. I sure wouldnt tell the city unless i absolutely had to. A neighbor or so called friend could always snitch on you. Its all about revenue for the city....period.
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Old 06-21-2010, 10:41 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,256,568 times
Reputation: 3696
not only do permits generate money for the city, they show that value has been added to the house, thereby increasing the tax assessed on the property....
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
653 posts, read 1,787,719 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
not only do permits generate money for the city, they show that value has been added to the house, thereby increasing the tax assessed on the property....
So if I get a permit to remove something (and decrease my sq footage) they will know I decreased the value, and decrease my taxes?

I am seriously considering this, I want a covered back porch, and don't need two eating areas.
Covers have to match the roof.
I think the easiest way is to move the wall in further, decreasing the inside sq footage, leaving some of the covered area as a back porch.
The yard is also very small.

Besides, the neighboring house has a larger yard, and more brick, and is generally nicer, but due to a few hundred less sq footage is tax appraised a lot lower.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,982 posts, read 6,696,604 times
Reputation: 2882
Quote:
Originally Posted by eileenkeeney View Post
So if I get a permit to remove something (and decrease my sq footage) they will know I decreased the value, and decrease my taxes?

I am seriously considering this, I want a covered back porch, and don't need two eating areas.
Covers have to match the roof.
I think the easiest way is to move the wall in further, decreasing the inside sq footage, leaving some of the covered area as a back porch.
The yard is also very small.

Besides, the neighboring house has a larger yard, and more brick, and is generally nicer, but due to a few hundred less sq footage is tax appraised a lot lower.
I contested by square footage with TCAD and got it changed. If you have a survey and/or pictures you can take it in front of their 3 person committee for protests.

And if a person does add on to their house then they should pay more in taxes though I'm not sure what a basement counts as.
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Old 06-22-2010, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
653 posts, read 1,787,719 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by verybadgnome View Post
I contested by square footage with TCAD and got it changed. If you have a survey and/or pictures you can take it in front of their 3 person committee for protests.

And if a person does add on to their house then they should pay more in taxes though I'm not sure what a basement counts as.
I actually suspect the sq footage is off (too high) but I will wait for the appraisal to come back.
But even if the sq footage comes out to less, if they ask me what I paid for the house, I will probably lose my argument.
I am paying only about $3000 below the tax appraised value.

Now I am thinking I should have had them reduce the price of the house, instead of paying toward my closing costs.
At the time I was thinking that having them pay toward the closing costs would give me the immediate cash to fix the stuff that showed up on the inspection report.
But if I could have lowered the price of the house more, I would have had a better chance of arguing taxable value.
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Old 06-22-2010, 07:36 PM
 
Location: 78731
629 posts, read 1,645,895 times
Reputation: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Sure. And I'd think that having an independent engineer inspect it would be a minimum step if there's some dispute about whether it's structurally sound.
You do realize that the City employs many professional engineers, don't you? I'm sure they can and did offer an opinion on the safety and integrity of this 'bubba with a back hoe' hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn View Post
The danger of this hole has been hugely exaggerated. As an architect I have taken enough structural engineering and soils classes to be able to say that it looks to me like the only structure that was at risk from the current configuration of the hole was his own. If he had continued to expand the entire excavation to a depth of 30' then it might possibly have threatened the adjacent structures.

Look at the diagram below. The majority of the excavation below his home was only about 10' deep. A much smaller area below that was about 20' deep and a very, very small shaft was about 30' deep.

If the sides of a hole 10' deep collapse, how could it possibly cause the earth to shift as much as 30'-35' away as was suggested in the newspaper. At most a small area of the neighbors driveway on the East might have settled.
Hello architect. Engineer here. Yes, a hole 10' deep collapsing (and especially 30' deep) can affect the stability of structures/improvements 30' away - unlikely, but possible. Compaction of soils around buried pipes (sewer, water, etc) can be compromised (causing undue stress on the pipe, sag, etc.), as well as road base, subgrade, etc. - especially in east Austin soils.

If I was a homeowner in that area, I'd be very happy with the City's actions.

Last edited by thesonofgray; 06-22-2010 at 07:47 PM..
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Old 06-22-2010, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
16,787 posts, read 48,839,394 times
Reputation: 9477
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesonofgray View Post
You do realize that the City employs many professional engineers, don't you? I'm sure they can and did offer an opinion on the safety and integrity of this 'bubba with a back hoe' hole.



Hello architect. Engineer here. Yes, a hole 10' deep collapsing (and especially 30' deep) can affect the stability of structures/improvements 30' away - unlikely, but possible. Compaction of soils around buried pipes (sewer, water, etc) can be compromised (causing undue stress on the pipe, sag, etc.), as well as road base, subgrade, etc. - especially in east Austin soils.

If I was a homeowner in that area, I'd be very happy with the City's actions.
Did you look at the diagram posted above? It would be impossible for a 10' deep basement with the limited area involved, even with a few very small deeper areas to physically endanger any structures 30' away from the hole. Its incompetent engineering like this that prompted me to go to college, after realizing that I was smarter them all the engineers I worked for.

I worked with most of those engineers at the City and can promise you that most of their opinions are a "cover my ass" opinion based mostly on what they think their bosses what to hear and what will protect them from future liability. It is not an engineering opinion it is a liability opinion.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:41 AM
 
Location: 78731
629 posts, read 1,645,895 times
Reputation: 347
Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn View Post
Did you look at the diagram posted above?
That graphic is awful. You know engineers don't do perspectives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn View Post
It would be impossible for a 10' deep basement with the limited area involved, even with a few very small deeper areas to physically endanger any structures 30' away from the hole. Its incompetent engineering like this that prompted me to go to college, after realizing that I was smarter them all the engineers I worked for.
I'm so glad architects and engineers have such a high opinion of each other.

A 30' hole can do a lot of damage to the immediate area and potentially do damage to surrounding structures. My primary concern would be underground utilities. Maybe there's a gas line nearby? Obviously there'd be water and sewer nearby. Immediate failure of underground utilities is unlikely, but movement of soil will absolutely cause accelerated wear and cause premature failure, excessive maintenance, etc. The City could simply be protecting their infrastructure within their right of way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptnRn View Post
I worked with most of those engineers at the City and can promise you that most of their opinions are a "cover my ass" opinion based mostly on what they think their bosses what to hear and what will protect them from future liability. It is not an engineering opinion it is a liability opinion.
Engineering is as much about physical principles as it is about law and regulation. An engineering opinion is barely differentiable from a liability opinion, as a licensed engineer is liable for their professional opinions and actions. Why would you blame an entity for trying to protect its assets and liability from the potential damage caused by some random guy who dug a 30 foot hole under his house?
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Old 06-23-2010, 04:18 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,256,568 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by eileenkeeney View Post
So if I get a permit to remove something (and decrease my sq footage) they will know I decreased the value, and decrease my taxes?

.
I'm almost positive that NEVER happens automatically, so I would appeal your appraisal with that new info.
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