What should be HOV lanes on Mopac will be Toll Roads (Austin: appointed, fit in)

[gpurcell]

Originally Posted by orbius

Free roads, take that lie back every gallon of gas every one of us buys incurs a .38c tax that is directly paying for roads in the state.

You don't know what you are talking about. The Texas gas tax is 20 cents a gallon and hasn't been raised since 1993. It would need to be around 30 cents JUST TO ACCOUNT FOR INFLATION. In addition, since vehicles are more fuel efficient today there are more vehicle miles per gallon of gas being driven.

TANSTAFFL. You want non-toll roads, raise the gas tax. If not, don't complain about the tolls.

[riaelise]

Just thought I'd add, that it isn't the rich who are taking the toll roads. Most often, it's the regular Janes like myself who enjoy the comfort of zipping from point A to B in less congestion and overall better ride. If making people pay keeps the road less congested, then I'm okie dokie willing to allow myself the luxury of 20 bucks a month to take the 45. It's not like TxDOT forces people to take the roads. There are accessible free ones as well, but it's nice to have options. Should there be more free roads? Sure. But they'll end up being bottlenecked like the major ones, so like I said, if paying keeps them clear..viva la 45, 130, 183-A....

If people want to pay for the convenience of managed lanes, then I think that's fine. Will it truly alleviate congestion? Maybe. But again, it's nice that folks have options. There are a lot of middle classers who have a little extra bucks in their wallets to spring for a faster commute.

[riaelise]

Originally Posted by achtungpv

Maybe there should be a city income tax for those that work in Austin but don't live in the city so that suburbanites have to help support Austin's infrastructure. I believe St Louis does this.

No. That works in say New York City because a) its New York, a major business hub, and suburbanites are mostly upper middle class - affluent. Here in Texas, a lot of the suburbanites are middle classed and a lot of the near in neighborhoods are populated by more affluent people. To tax us would be taxing the middle classed, and I'd be darned if I pay an income tax and a Westlaker pays none simply because they live in town.

[orbius]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

Public servants "benefiting their friends constructions businesses" what a joke. Where are your facts? Lay them out or ****.

Yes I am very familiar with CAMPO, it is not controlled by COA, get your facts straight.

Ignorance is no excuse for these ridiculous rants.

Austin doesn't have these highway infrastructure features because AUSTIN doesn't want to pay for them. Why should the rest of the state have to pay for your (or my) driving convenience?

Your righteous indignation at the possibility of corruption is amusing. Moderator cut: see comment

Fourth man guilty in TxDOT bribery case | fourth, guilty, txdot - News - TheMonitor.com (http://www.themonitor.com/news/fourth-16138-guilty-txdot.html - broken link)

Txdot claims 'no money to build roads' but spends $20 mil of gas tax money to build park:
San Antonio – Toll Party » Blog Archive » TxDOT spends $20 million in gas taxes to build PARK, not roads!

Txdot has new capacity to pay losing bidders for roads over $250,000. If you need me to point out how this could encourage blatant corruption I can point it out to you if necessary. Also it was proven Txdot was engaging in a propaganda campaign to promote toll roads for their friends in toll road corporations on the public dime. The legislature was forced to step in and stop this blatant misuse of public funds:
Terri Hall (http://voices.mysanantonio.com/mt/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=116&search=Lois%20Kolkhors t - broken link)

I can go at this all day, Txdot represents all that is wrong with unaccountable unelected government agencies. Now feel free to admit you were wrong Moderator cut: see comment

[achtungpv]

Originally Posted by riaelise

No. That works in say New York City because a) its New York, a major business hub, and suburbanites are mostly upper middle class - affluent. Here in Texas, a lot of the suburbanites are middle classed and a lot of the near in neighborhoods are populated by more affluent people. To tax us would be taxing the middle classed, and I'd be darned if I pay an income tax and a Westlaker pays none simply because they live in town.

A Westlaker would be taxed also. They're not the the Austin city limits.

Regardless, your logic is that you shouldn't have to pay for what you use because of your social class?

[riaelise]

Originally Posted by achtungpv

A Westlaker would be taxed also. They're not the the Austin city limits.

Regardless, your logic is that you shouldn't have to pay for what you use because of your social class?

Westlake pays City of Austin taxes, so I figured it was in the city of austin. Ok, fine. Pemberton Heights.

I'll pay for what I use as long as others pay for what they use. Most cities that tax suburbanites also have income taxes for residents. In this instance, my social class would be the most impacted. It's all about fair play. If suburbanites are paying income taxes, then so should everyone else. But this is all hypothetical discussion because hell would freeze over before any Texan pays an income tax.

[achtungpv]

Originally Posted by riaelise

It's all about fair play. If suburbanites are paying income taxes, then so should everyone else. But this is all hypothetical discussion because hell would freeze over before any Texan pays an income tax.

Completely hypothetical but as the trend towards the suburbs completely overwhelming the core city's infrastructure something will eventually have to be done. COA property tax payers won't be able to foot the bill forever for infrastructure used by an increasingly large number of non-COA residents.

One way a city handled it...I think in the Netherlands...was that if you didn't live in the city limits, you couldn't work in the city limits. This actually help with redevelopment of formerly blighted areas since it didn't make sense for development to continue to sprawl outwards.

I imagine nothing will ever happen and in 20 years we'll be like Sao Paulo where the traffic jam to get in the city is in excess of 4 hours in the morning.

[eileenkeeney]

Taxing people who work in Austin, but live outside Austin, is not necessarily going to equate fairly to their use of tax funded city services.

The more I read this thread, the more I wonder if we should not have ALL roads be toll roads.
Pay as we go.

[riaelise]

Originally Posted by achtungpv

Completely hypothetical but as the trend towards the suburbs completely overwhelming the core city's infrastructure something will eventually have to be done. COA property tax payers won't be able to foot the bill forever for infrastructure used by an increasingly large number of non-COA residents.

One way a city handled it...I think in the Netherlands...was that if you didn't live in the city limits, you couldn't work in the city limits. This actually help with redevelopment of formerly blighted areas since it didn't make sense for development to continue to sprawl outwards.

I imagine nothing will ever happen and in 20 years we'll be like Sao Paulo where the traffic jam to get in the city is in excess of 4 hours in the morning.

That is true. Personally I think the suburbs need to step up their efforts in attracting top businesses so that suburbanites are able to work in the suburbs (and thereby not tax the COA infrastructure as much). As it currently stands, the only nearby major non-industrial/retail business near me is Dell. In my line of work, d/t and maybe just south of d/t is the only place to find work. all of the firms that were up north relocated to d/t or barton springs area. There are a number of corporations north of d/t..but a dearth in the true suburbs (i.e. Kyle, Manor, Pflugerville, Georgetown, and any Round Rocker not employed at Dell).

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by jobert

Thanks Atxcio. It's good to have some solid info about this. It sounds as if homeowners adjacent to Mopac will benefit.

....sounds more like 'hush money' to me! If I lived in the area between 35th and the lake, I'd be reluctant to take this offer. The cut throughs will be tough.