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One example of sellers/buyers I helped was a young tech couple in late 20s. Both worked off Mopac, north of 183. She was working on a masters/grad? program at night at UT in order to be better positioned to climb the corp ladder. Her company paid for all or part of it. Eventually, the drive between UT/Steiner became intolerable.
They bought a resale close to Parmer and Mopac where they could be close to work AND UT, and we sold the house in Steiner.
That's just one example. I'm not going to list out a bunch more, but the reality is that people, for whatever reason, can in fact later decide that the location is too far and they decide to sell. Most will admit that they would have bought closer in if they know what they know now.
This doesn't mean that a different set of people wouldn't decide to tough it out or adapt. But the Steiner "lovers" can't deny that, for many, Steiner is just too darned far out there, wheteher you like hearing that or not.
Therefore, when someone comes on the forum and asks whether it's too far, the correct, true answer is, "for many it's not, and for many it is". What I can tell you, for a fact, is that Realtors never receive calls from people who want to move further out because they are seeking a longer commute.
Steve
That "young tech couple" probably should NOT have bought in Steiner. I assume they had no kids, they had to get to UT often, etc. Not a good match for Steiner.
But a young couple with kids and no need to commute to central Austin might be a great fit for Steiner.
I live in Spicewood and drive to the Arboretum area every day. My commute isn't great, but it isn't awful. Bee Cave has almost everything I need on a regular basis - so I don't need to go to central Austin often. When I'm home - I see Lake Travis. I'm happy.
I really think that lifestyle is 180 degrees different when you have a family, per what you need and want....for the most part, living in an area that is centrally dense, with mega-activities, is simply undoable for a family. Traffic alone is a killer, even if it was 100% safe. Also, activities by far trend towards adults in central areas, from young to old. There is a time and place for that, and it is young adulthood, the pre-family unit couples, and empty nesters. All the focus, per family mindset, should be through the kids. That is the whole point of raising a family. Schools, rec activities, safety, etc, for the children, along with stores that cater to families are tops.
I think many who have jaundiced views towards the more "self-contained" areas on the outskirts simply do not have either families, or the family mindset, where all revolves around the children and family unit. I hate to pull out the old Abraham Maslow "Hierarchy of Needs", but take a look at the security orientated needs that I've come up with....these would pertain to families, who are looking for an entirely different world than those who are single, or childless couples who have the space to look "down" on the pragmatism of family needs, or construe them as "Stepford Wives"-ville....
Having a fairly large amount of money in the bank and/or income-generating investments
Having a planned savings/retirement program
Having a secure job
Having a home that satisfies needs, ala space, privacy, convenience, location
Having a dependable car(s)
Paying off the mortgage or having no debts
Having excellent personal and family health, or health insurance that covers any possibility
Having life insurance to protect their family
Having deep personal faith or personal conviction/a place of worship that can instill the same/a network of friends that can bolster the same
Having a way to protect themselves - security alarms, good local police force
Knowing their personal family history, or ethnic background
Living in a safe community
Living near friends and family.
Obviously these needs are important to single and childless couples as well, but are paramount to families, and will override all concerns in their search for a home and community....and explains in a nutshell why families will always gravitate to the outlying areas that afford them these needs in ANY metro.....Think of them as pods/spawning grounds for families, and I don't mean that in a sci-fi sense. Just the reality that those communities are 100% geared towards growing family units, from the time between the first child born and the last one to move out of the house. That 20-25 year-ish tick, which most of us spend a huge share of our adulthood in. Those time frames also dovetail with the peak earning years of many adults, so it is not a coincidence that most of those communities are the wealthist in any metro. In many ways, they themselves are the heart and soul of their metros, but never get the kudos for it, as they don't have the same flash and bells/whistles as the central/urban "cool" areas....nevertheless, they are, and always will be, the economic anchors and support of any metro as a whole....
That "young tech couple" probably should NOT have bought in Steiner. I assume they had no kids, they had to get to UT often, etc. Not a good match for Steiner.
Agreed. Yet many without kids are drawn nonetheless by the "affordability" and beauty of Steiner. It's undeniably a beautiful entry as one drives into the neighborhood for the first time. Very seductive. And it's a beautiful place to live. Many without kids are thinking ahead and imagining where they want to be after they have kids, and buying there in advance.
Agreed. Yet many without kids are drawn nonetheless by the "affordability" and beauty of Steiner. It's undeniably a beautiful entry as one drives into the neighborhood for the first time. Very seductive. And it's a beautiful place to live. Many without kids are thinking ahead and imagining where they want to be after they have kids, and buying there in advance.
Steve
Steve, question for you...what other areas approximate Steiner in Austin? Put another way, any other relatively-upscale, family-orientated communities come to mind? I just mention this because Steiner seems to pop up most of the time, but I don't hear many other places mentioned.
Any on the south end of town? Is Steiner that rare/special that no other area approximates the same per amenties? I would imagine the Austin metro is quite large enough to have more upscale family oriented communities than Steiner....I just very rarely see them mentioned on here.
I really think that lifestyle is 180 degrees different when you have a family, per what you need and want....for the most part, living in an area that is centrally dense, with mega-activities, is simply undoable for a family. Traffic alone is a killer, even if it was 100% safe. Also, activities by far trend towards adults in central areas, from young to old. There is a time and place for that, and it is young adulthood, the pre-family unit couples, and empty nesters. All the focus, per family mindset, should be through the kids. That is the whole point of raising a family. Schools, rec activities, safety, etc, for the children, along with stores that cater to families are tops.
I am floored by this statement. Absolutely, untrue. The central city of Austin is growing by leaps and bounds with young families who enjoy the nearly limitless choices and opportunities living in the urban core provides.
It is very apparent you have had little to no experience with the urban core or the growing number of people who have decided that suburban life may nor fulfill all their needs of community and civic interactions. I'd suggest a weekend trip to the central city and see how families fare. I assure you. They are very happy. Austin is completely doable !
As others have stated Steiner is a great place if you have young kids and I could definitely live there myself. However, now that the schools/Universities have started up, you will see an increase in traffic over how it was during summer. Just this morning my commute from the Cedar Park/Round Rock area increased by about 10 to 15 minutes over what it was last Friday. I don't live in either area, but if costs were about the same, I would definitely take the location of my job as one of the deciding factors (not the sole factor of course).
Since the Op is living in San Diego, I would do a comparison of Steiner being more like North County (Carlsbad and La Costa without the ocean, but with a lake) and Anderson Mill being more like Poway (more established and feels like it's closer in). These are of course very loose comparisons. Like the Op, I wasn't very fond of the time that I spent living in the Bay area, but was very happy in San Diego other than the cost of housing. I think either Steiner or Anderson Mill would be a good choice.
We actually live in Carlsbad right now. My husband works from home, so we don't need to worry about traffic during commute hours very much. How long does it take you to get to the Arboretum during normal non-rush hour traffic times?
Steve, question for you...what other areas approximate Steiner in Austin? Put another way, any other relatively-upscale, family-orientated communities come to mind? I just mention this because Steiner seems to pop up most of the time, but I don't hear many other places mentioned.
Any on the south end of town? Is Steiner that rare/special that no other area approximates the same per amenties? I would imagine the Austin metro is quite large enough to have more upscale family oriented communities than Steiner....I just very rarely see them mentioned on here.
The two that come to mind are Circle C and Onion Creek. Circle C is more geared towards the younger upwardly mobile "new money" crowd, while Onion Creek is more of the "old guard" dating back to the 60's-70's. The only exception with Onion Creek is that there is not a huge amount of young families there, but that is changing. Both are upscale (200K to 1M+) and have the neighborhood amenities (tennis, pool, etc.) while Onion Creek has the golf course, Circle C has the walkability to local schools. If one could join these two neighborhoods together, it would be the perfect community.
I really think that lifestyle is 180 degrees different when you have a family, per what you need and want....for the most part, living in an area that is centrally dense, with mega-activities, is simply undoable for a family. Traffic alone is a killer, even if it was 100% safe. Also, activities by far trend towards adults in central areas, from young to old. There is a time and place for that, and it is young adulthood, the pre-family unit couples, and empty nesters. All the focus, per family mindset, should be through the kids. That is the whole point of raising a family. Schools, rec activities, safety, etc, for the children, along with stores that cater to families are tops.
I think many who have jaundiced views towards the more "self-contained" areas on the outskirts simply do not have either families, or the family mindset, where all revolves around the children and family unit. I hate to pull out the old Abraham Maslow "Hierarchy of Needs", but take a look at the security orientated needs that I've come up with....these would pertain to families, who are looking for an entirely different world than those who are single, or childless couples who have the space to look "down" on the pragmatism of family needs, or construe them as "Stepford Wives"-ville....
Having a fairly large amount of money in the bank and/or income-generating investments
Having a planned savings/retirement program
Having a secure job
Having a home that satisfies needs, ala space, privacy, convenience, location
Having a dependable car(s)
Paying off the mortgage or having no debts
Having excellent personal and family health, or health insurance that covers any possibility
Having life insurance to protect their family
Having deep personal faith or personal conviction/a place of worship that can instill the same/a network of friends that can bolster the same
Having a way to protect themselves - security alarms, good local police force
Knowing their personal family history, or ethnic background
Living in a safe community
Living near friends and family.
Obviously these needs are important to single and childless couples as well, but are paramount to families, and will override all concerns in their search for a home and community....and explains in a nutshell why families will always gravitate to the outlying areas that afford them these needs in ANY metro.....Think of them as pods/spawning grounds for families, and I don't mean that in a sci-fi sense. Just the reality that those communities are 100% geared towards growing family units, from the time between the first child born and the last one to move out of the house. That 20-25 year-ish tick, which most of us spend a huge share of our adulthood in. Those time frames also dovetail with the peak earning years of many adults, so it is not a coincidence that most of those communities are the wealthist in any metro. In many ways, they themselves are the heart and soul of their metros, but never get the kudos for it, as they don't have the same flash and bells/whistles as the central/urban "cool" areas....nevertheless, they are, and always will be, the economic anchors and support of any metro as a whole....
Well, I agree and disagree with your points. As a mom to three kiddos under the age of six, I've had to change my life and lifestyle more than I ever thought. I completely agree that master planned developments (such as Steiner, but not ONLY Steiner) have wonderful amenities for families and to many people this is nirvana. However, one of our reasons for moving to Austin is to be closer to a smaller city where the kids can do cool things like ballet lessons with the Austin Ballet, fun classes at the Austin Children's Museum, theater classes with a children's theater, etc. I'm not saying that Steiner would offer better or worse experiences, just different.
Also, since my kids only have one Granndparent left, I really value that our neighbors are older and love to see our kids regularly. If we lived in a master planned community, that may not be the case.
Believe me, I'm searching my heart out trying to find a home for us in a central neighborhood that would suit our many needs. It's tough to do without paying a king's ransom, but it can be done. All that being said though, DH wants to move to Westlake!
I am floored by this statement. Absolutely, untrue. The central city of Austin is growing by leaps and bounds with young families who enjoy the nearly limitless choices and opportunities living in the urban core provides.
It is very apparent you have had little to no experience with the urban core or the growing number of people who have decided that suburban life may nor fulfill all their needs of community and civic interactions. I'd suggest a weekend trip to the central city and see how families fare. I assure you. They are very happy. Austin is completely doable !
I agree, in a way....yes, Austin's central city area is growing fast, and has been, if you construe it as say south of 4000 north and north of about 2200 South, west of I-35, and east of Mopac.....I wouldn't say that young families with school age kids are the main driver of the same, though...mostly childless couples, singles, alternative lifestyle folks, and empty nesters...sure, families are a part of the same, but hardly the main drivers of the central city growth....if you consider families with kids anywhere from 6 -17, school-age, if you will, the lions share in the Austin metro are not moving to or living in the central area. Also, you have 30-40K students living in the same, who prob comprise the largest demographic outside of post college singles/childless couples...you do see families with kids, but almost all have kids under 6, and move out by the time the children reach school age, for the most part, if they HAVE kids.
That's the same in every metro with those type areas....in my old city, that was the chain....move in as a single, meet a single, get hooked and married, have babies, and move back to the burbs when they reach school age/old enough to play in a backyard, bike, get in trouble....same process in Austin as anywhere else....the demo of central austin will always skew hugely towards singles and childless couples...
After all is said, all families will vary, but most will gravitate towards a place they feel comfortable letting their kids run free, on bikes, on foot, you name it. Central cities just have too much traffic and density, even if crime free, for that to happen. Sure, heavy supervision, and a lot of driving around, might get around that, but few parents have the time to be around and supervise that often, especially if both parents work, let alone single parents....some areas are geared for families, some are not...central cities are not, in any metro, and are not meant to be...
The main issue with the central city for families, is that families tend to live more marginally than singles. Singles don't flinch at $8 cocktails because they don't have anyone else to take care of, other than themselves. The second issue is the quality of housing stock. There are places half the distance to downtown that cost less than my house, but they are complete dumps - there is a band of housing just south of Ben White down to Slaughter across the entire south/sw side that just requires too much work. This band is even larger on the north side. There are areas where the housing has been kept up, and there are pockets of new construction, but the remaining 90% of these houses are from the 60's-70's and need major updating. The logistics, much less the budget prove to prohibit families from moving to that area as a first choice. Young families don't need or want "fixer-uppers". Many of them can't even keep their own houses clean, much less do they want to renovate their kitchen and tear out drywall and have contractors camped out in their houses while they try to go on with their lives. I made that choice with the last place we lived. We spent about 10K in materials, and decided to do all the work ourselves. Within one year we renovated 80% of our condo, but then our first child came, and the projects ground to a halt - half finished for two years. We finally caved and hired a contractor to finish our game room. I couldn't imagine having to renovate a house with multiple children. Most people with kids probably want "plug-and-play" with no hassle. The central areas will become more appealing over time, but it requires investment from singles who need the good location, moderate priced housing, and have the time/opportunity to renovate. They may sell these to families when done, or they may stay and have families of their own - both are inevitable. I can already see evidence of gentrification down far south Congress/First over the last two years with all the people moving here. I totally derailed this.. apologies.
Last edited by jobert; 08-25-2010 at 02:02 PM..
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