Anyone move to Austin....and hate it? (Houston, Dallas: living in, restaurants)

[TexasHorseLady]

South Austin was "bubbaville" to a certain extent back then, however, plenty of people went south of downtown - to Jerry Jacobs for BBQ, to Green Pastures (for some 60 years now), and to Zilker Park, among other things.

Travis Heights has always been a popular place to live, as has the area surrounding Zilker (though back in the late sixties/early 70's there weren't all the houses/condos looming over Barton Creek - I remember when someone built a house overlooking Campbell's Hole and then got all upset and called the police because people were skinnydipping there just as they'd been since the 1880's - made the newspapers and people were s******ing at them for making such a fuss). Barton Hills has always been a popular place to life. The Umlaufs lived in South Austin (overlooking where the museum is now) long before the 1980's (when they donated their home and sculpture garden to the city) - surely they shouldn't be considered to be "bubbas". Heck, even Marcia Ball has (or had) a home in South Austin, whatever she might have told you about Chicago (which has had its own music scene for decades, as well, of course).

It was in the late 1970's/early 1980's that we discovered, having thought that Austin was lost to us, that it had simply moved south of the river, and in the late 1980's we made the move ourselves, following the spirit of the city. But that didn't mean that South Austin was not valued for itself long before we decided to do so.

[TexasGirl@Heart]

Originally Posted by twange

Sounds like someone's getting ants in their pants again.

SouthCongress, it seems like you're really up and down here in Austin. Maybe it's not a good fit for you? I swear one month you're super up-beat and humorous....we won't see you on the forum for awhile and then...

BLAMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You come roaring back with a bunch of anti-Austin sarcasm laced with deep frustration. Like 10 posts per thread! Is someone else posting under your handle or is the heat getting you in a surly mood?

OMG! You are my Hero!

[TexasGirl@Heart]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

South Austin was "bubbaville" to a certain extent back then, however, plenty of people went south of downtown - to Jerry Jacobs for BBQ, to Green Pastures (for some 60 years now), and to Zilker Park, among other things.

Travis Heights has always been a popular place to live, as has the area surrounding Zilker (though back in the late sixties/early 70's there weren't all the houses/condos looming over Barton Creek - I remember when someone built a house overlooking Campbell's Hole and then got all upset and called the police because people were skinnydipping there just as they'd been since the 1880's - made the newspapers and people were s******ing at them for making such a fuss). Barton Hills has always been a popular place to life. The Umlaufs lived in South Austin (overlooking where the museum is now) long before the 1980's (when they donated their home and sculpture garden to the city) - surely they shouldn't be considered to be "bubbas". Heck, even Marcia Ball has (or had) a home in South Austin, whatever she might have told you about Chicago (which has had its own music scene for decades, as well, of course).

It was in the late 1970's/early 1980's that we discovered, having thought that Austin was lost to us, that it had simply moved south of the river, and in the late 1980's we made the move ourselves, following the spirit of the city. But that didn't mean that South Austin was not valued for itself long before we decided to do so.

Interesting and great post THL!

[scongress1234]

Originally Posted by devlin

LONG time lurker here! I REALLY agree with what you said about the music scene here in Austin,scongress1234! I by NO means am an austin hater,but i'm no rabid enthusiast either. Austin in of itself is fine.I like the weather even the crazy hot stuff,i like the outdoor lifestyle,I found a few cafes and pubs i liked,but............i guess i could never get over my culture shock. I want to preface the following statements with the obvious,that this is JUST my personal experience! I'm not saying this about austin folk in general,just the people I encountered seemed to not appreciate my DIRECT communication ,and my assertive nature. I happen to value TRUTH over "nice, nice". There is also a CULTURE of amatuer hour drinking here of the likes of which i have NEVER seen before, and this extends itself to folks beyound their 20's. I honestly could never find an apartment without being kept up my some oblivious,inconsiderate,entitled "vanilla". I have WAY too many apartment horror stories to list. Also,the mac bulidings,i never thought i would ever pay over 800.00 dollars for a place with 2 windows only one of which opened! OK i'll come back from by spat now.
I knew diversity was always important to me ,and after living in austin for 6 years, i now know its a NEED and NOT a want! Which brings me to all this austin is "liberal" stuff. Folks Sweden is liberal,Austin is only liberal for texas period.I find that there's a lot of liberal posturing, but scratch the surface and theres a lot of racial and ethnic sterotyping ,that even they don't seem to be aware of because its so ingrained.I didn't find austin hateful,just severly unexposed to people of different cultures.I'm not a practicing jew,but these are my origins.I can't tell you how many times when i have said i'm jewish here people say oh,you don't look jewish! And when i have been told this, i always wait for a punch line, i can't believe this comes out of peoples mouths let alone how them seem so oblivous to how ignorant and hurtful this is. Again,this is My experience, and hopefully this isn't yours. I will miss the weather,but its just not home for me. My 2 cents.

Devlin, I find that much of the "happy talk" is at best just a superficial buzz, and there isn't even much of that, for that matter. It is really hard to have a well-rounded, interesting discussion, but they can be found. I'm just more used to a rust-belt, east-coast directness, and intensity, and you get a very laconic reaction, almost as if they don't hear you, when you address people beyond formalities. You don't find many places with dynamic, hard-hitting discussions going on. Just a lot of hanging around, in a lazy, laid-back , off-the-grid way. I found many people were very inward and cliqueish as well.
Again, this is MY personal experience. Yours may vary.....

[scongress1234]

Originally Posted by Texanwannabe

OMG! You are my Hero!

What kind of hero? Mythic? messiah? Conquerer and all around pillager? Can someone BE a hero in cyberspace? Would it be sort of a Sim City hero? Is this a hero vs. villian dichotomy, or are we discussing pure talking points? And why, on the internet, the most impersonal of mediums, do all ideas become personal? Do we have that much need to put a human face on an idea, in that we have little to no idea who is behind the words? Lots of points to ponder on Memorial day week-end, eh?

[twange]

Originally Posted by scongress1234

Twange, don't put people on a couch and analyze them. Just address the points. Actually, none of us have ever met or know each other, so whats the point if someone is up or down? Are we still trying to justify our move, or prove to ourselves that we've made the right decision? I think the only ones on here on an even keel are the real estate agents that troll for business here. Simply, there are profound negatives and positives to Austin, that cause many people to fluctuate in opinion. My opinion, and it is simply that, without anyone picking it apart, is that Austin is indeed overhyped, but, if you can get beyond the bull, and ignore the vast nondescript sprawl, you can find little nuggets of great beauty. That being said, it indeed is a place seemingly more appropo for folks that are not in a corporate or high-end career path, or younger 20-somthings with a few years to burn before they figure out what to do with their life.

Look, I'm not trying to ridicule you and I apologize if I've made you feel defensive. We've had some good conversations and you make some very good points about Austin's positives and negatives(particularly its lack of corporate opportunities). I've certainly made many criticisms myself on this forum(my rants on pedestrian infrastructure generally draw blank stares). But I admit that sometimes it's confusing as to whether or not you're baiting folks when you seem to fluctuate so much, that's all. Actually, I'm very similar in that regard and I think any sane person would second-guess their decision to move to another place. I'm no shill, but I think that judging a place like Austin is not a 1:1 comparison with cities like Chicago, Houston or any other large metropolitan area. I don't call that a free pass, I'm just trying to be fair with my judgments. And I do think that you're over-estimating the amount of folks that base moving on "top-ten" magazine lists. Anyone that simple deserves whatever disappointment comes their way. Austin's sort of a petri dish right now and that can be frustrating, but I still see some great things. I think the free pass is only a false expectation from newcomers.

I don't pretend to have all of the answers. Nobody can predict what's around the next corner. Hell, we may leave Austin in a year or two for somewhere else. Then again, we might stay for the long run, who knows?. But it could be poised for another paradigm shift, one that's based on integration of new elements, sustainability and diversity not only in its culture but in its business models as well. Or it may crash hard, and all of the long-timers will get their wish and Austin will see a mass exodus. Probably not though.

Oh and btw, I'm a musician and you're right, it's really hard to make a living. I've had quite a lot of ups and downs, worked a bunch of sh*tty jobs, and never made too much sustainable income with my skills(yet). And I have to say, I'm a pretty damn talented guy...Some of it's my fault and some of it isn't. No real regrets! But you know what? It's like that in every city: New York, L.A., Chicago, Nashville. I have so many music colleagues across the country. That's the way it is most places.

[scongress1234]

Originally Posted by twange

Look, I'm not trying to ridicule you and I apologize if I've made you feel defensive. We've had some good conversations and you make some very good points about Austin's positives and negatives(particularly its lack of corporate opportunities). I've certainly made many criticisms myself on this forum(my rants on pedestrian infrastructure generally draw blank stares). But I admit that sometimes it's confusing as to whether or not you're baiting folks when you seem to fluctuate so much, that's all. Actually, I'm very similar in that regard and I think any sane person would second-guess their decision to move to another place. I'm no shill, but I think that judging a place like Austin is not a 1:1 comparison with cities like Chicago, Houston or any other large metropolitan area. I don't call that a free pass, I'm just trying to be fair with my judgments. And I do think that you're over-estimating the amount of folks that base moving on "top-ten" magazine lists. Anyone that simple deserves whatever disappointment comes their way. Austin's sort of a petri dish right now and that can be frustrating, but I still see some great things. I think the free pass is only a false expectation from newcomers.

I don't pretend to have all of the answers. Nobody can predict what's around the next corner. Hell, we may leave Austin in a year or two for somewhere else. Then again, we might stay for the long run, who knows?. But it could be poised for another paradigm shift, one that's based on integration of new elements, sustainability and diversity not only in its culture but in its business models as well. Or it may crash hard, and all of the long-timers will get their wish and Austin will see a mass exodus. Probably not though.

Oh and btw, I'm a musician and you're right, it's really hard to make a living. I've had quite a lot of ups and downs, worked a bunch of sh*tty jobs, and never made too much sustainable income with my skills(yet). And I have to say, I'm a pretty damn talented guy...Some of it's my fault and some of it isn't. No real regrets! But you know what? It's like that in every city: New York, L.A., Chicago, Nashville. I have so many music colleagues across the country. That's the way it is most places.

I have to qualify the 1:1 comparison, twange......Austin is not a little mid-sized city now. It currently ranks 16th in the nation in population. SO, when you compare it to places with the same pop. like Indianapolis, you see abjectly lacking qualities....First, Indy has a Bike trail that goes clear through the entire center of the city for 20 miles, with NO obstructions, and all paved. Austin has none paved, and a dirt trail bordering Lady Brid lake a piece. Indy has 2 pro teams, and a world-class racetrack that will be used today at Noon(Indy 500). Austin has none of the above. Indy has many museums, historical recreation villages, a outdoor ampitheater with 20,000 seating for the summer, and on an on, with a downdown that has a revitalized retail center. Austin has none again. The point is, even with 1:1 comparisons, Austin loses. Is the music scene, and the "weirdness" REALLY enough to make up for the same, incuding an abject disregard for bikers and pedestrians, and a very poor city park system? hard to say, hence my ambivalence about the same. Can Austin hit those new paradigms? I suppose so. Is it on track? Not really....they can't even establish a bike trail with right of way clearance through the city, so how can you expect them to turn into the "Epcot world of tomorrow" in five years? Even Walt himself couldn't do that! I think, Andrew, that the city has trouble absorbing all the new folks with proper road structure, so never mind the "city of the future" paradigm for a long time to come. If anything, with Gas hitting 4 bucks now, and maybe 7-10 in a few years, the old cities with ESTABLISHED rapid trans, like Chicago, SF, Boston, Philly, and NYC may be the new paradigms simply by default. The newer, car based cities may cost too much to ramp up that quick, and could very well find themselves defunct in the era of 10 buck a gallon gas.
Than again, what the hell do I know?




Hey Uncle Walt, Austin needs you!

[twange]

Originally Posted by scongress1234

I have to qualify the 1:1 comparison, twange......Austin is not a little mid-sized city now. It currently ranks 16th in the nation in population. SO, when you compare it to places with the same pop. like Indianapolis, you see abjectly lacking qualities....First, Indy has a Bike trail that goes clear through the entire center of the city for 20 miles, with NO obstructions, and all paved. Austin has none paved, and a dirt trail bordering Lady Brid lake a piece. Indy has 2 pro teams, and a world-class racetrack that will be used today at Noon(Indy 500). Austin has none of the above. Indy has many museums, historical recreation villages, a outdoor ampitheater with 20,000 seating for the summer, and on an on, with a downdown that has a revitalized retail center. Austin has none again. The point is, even with 1:1 comparisons, Austin loses. Is the music scene, and the "weirdness" REALLY enough to make up for the same, incuding an abject disregard for bikers and pedestrians, and a very poor city park system? hard to say, hence my ambivalence about the same. Can Austin hit those new paradigms? I suppose so. Is it on track? Not really....they can't even establish a bike trail with right of way clearance through the city, so how can you expect them to turn into the "Epcot world of tomorrow" in five years? Even Walt himself couldn't do that! I think, Andrew, that the city has trouble absorbing all the new folks with proper road structure, so never mind the "city of the future" paradigm for a long time to come. If anything, with Gas hitting 4 bucks now, and maybe 7-10 in a few years, the old cities with ESTABLISHED rapid trans, like Chicago, SF, Boston, Philly, and NYC may be the new paradigms simply by default. The newer, car based cities may cost too much to ramp up that quick, and could very well find themselves defunct in the era of 10 buck a gallon gas.
Than again, what the hell do I know?
Hey Uncle Walt, Austin needs you!

I think the difference between Austin and Indy is that Austin made a quick jump to its' current population, whereas Indy was already a medium-sized city to begin with. I agree: Austin's done a LOUSY job keeping up with its population growth via infrastructure and public transit. Do you realize that had the (suburbs) not voted the lightrail 2000 proposal down, that right now, there would be a rapid running right down S. Congress to the Capital then up Guadalupe to Lamar and further?

North American Light Rail Information and News Site

For us, how the city moves on these issues is one of the central things we'll be watching over the next year or so. If they drag their feet and continue to feed car culture, we'll leave and AustinTexan can have his town back the way he wants it. The Epcot reference was funny but let's not get silly!

I agree about the old metros with established transit though. Of course, those East Coast cities are still thriving, it's the mid-market ones that may come back. I'm just not sure how fast those cities can turn the clock back.

BTW, check out this guys blog. Lots of infrastructure info:

M1EK's Bake-Sale of Bile

[twange]

Oh, I almost forgot! I prefer the crushed gravel bike trails in Austin compared to the paved ones! But you're right, there should be longer ones. In fact - this will be a heretical statement - I don't think bikes should be on the Town Lake trail. The speed differential between all the runners is too high. Bikes need more of their own trails/paths...

BTW, I just read an article with Lance Armstrong who is (finally) taking a more public role in Austin's bike advocacy, with his new shop/storage facility downtown:

Lance Armstrong unveils his new commuting bike shop

[scongress1234]

Originally Posted by twange

I think the difference between Austin and Indy is that Austin made a quick jump to its' current population, whereas Indy was already a medium-sized city to begin with. I agree: Austin's done a LOUSY job keeping up with its population growth via infrastructure and public transit. Do you realize that had the (suburbs) not voted the lightrail 2000 proposal down, that right now, there would be a rapid running right down S. Congress to the Capital then up Guadalupe to Lamar and further?

North American Light Rail Information and News Site

For us, how the city moves on these issues is one of the central things we'll be watching over the next year or so. If they drag their feet and continue to feed car culture, we'll leave and AustinTexan can have his town back the way he wants it. The Epcot reference was funny but let's not get silly!

I agree about the old metros with established transit though. Of course, those East Coast cities are still thriving, it's the mid-market ones that may come back. I'm just not sure how fast those cities can turn the clock back.

BTW, check out this guys blog. Lots of infrastructure info:

M1EK's Bake-Sale of Bile

Indy made a quick jump too, because they consolidated all their suburbs under Mayor Luger in 1970. Overnight they almost doubled in population,
and had to consolidate city services and bone up the road structure.