Anyone move to Austin....and hate it? (Houston, Rockdale: credit, moving)

[contramundum]

Originally Posted by centralaustinite

Dude!

Austin has been teetering on violating the Clean Air for at least the last decade! Texas is a business-friendly, low regulation kind of place and it has been so for nearly a century. If clean air is a priority (we all want clean air) then Texas shouldn't have even been on your list as a place to move! Sound like you failed to do much googling before you arrived.

Now, if you want to help improve the air quality and argue for greater regulation of polluters, please do. We need your voice but please don't be surprised by the air quality.

With all of these top 10 lists that Austin is on and the fact that a reputable publication named austin the 10th greenest city in America, I didn't think I had to concern myself with air quality. Shouldn't good air quality be a requirement to be named the 10th greenest city in America? Seems pretty logical to me but I guess it doesn't matter. So now I know that I can't trust anyone's opinion anymore.

[Moonlady]

Originally Posted by contramundum

With all of these top 10 lists that Austin is on and the fact that a reputable publication named austin the 10th greenest city in America, I didn't think I had to concern myself with air quality. Shouldn't good air quality be a requirement to be named the 10th greenest city in America? Seems pretty logical to me but I guess it doesn't matter. So now I know that I can't trust anyone's opinion anymore.

Not necessarily. Those "Top 10" lists use all sorts of random criteria. That's why you can't always believe them. You have to read through the BS to see what's relevant to you.

[hoffdano]

I'd hate to let data intrude on this but if we want to talk about air quality....

Based on the AQI (Air Quality Index) data reported by the EPA for 2008:

County..........# Days with good AQI

Travis (Austin).........235
Harris (Houston).......128
Bexar (San Antonio)..218
Los Angeles..............71
San Francisco..........228
Mecklinburg (Charlotte NC)....196
Multnomah (Portland)...........246

Slice and dice the data anyway you want at the site Reports and Maps | AirData | US EPA

I think you'll find that air quality in Austin is high overall and compares favorably to any city of similar size. It is close to everyone's favorite green city Portland and significantly exceeds Charlotte.

Los Angeles still is the worst air champion and will probably remain so for our lifetimes.

[atxcio]

It's also interesting to note that the reason Austin may become in "nonattainment" of clean air standards is not because pollution has increased, it's because the EPA standard was lowered in 2008.

News: Can Austin Avoid the Stigma of Dirty Air? - The Austin Chronicle

In fact, despite the growth I believe our pollution level by the 8-hr Ozone standards has actually gone DOWN over the past decade. Just go to the link below and compare our current levels (Sept 2009) with Sept 1999 or 2000. It's much lower now:

Daily Maximum Eight-Hour Ozone Averages for September 2009 - Texas Commission on Environmental Quality - www.tceq.state.tx.us

[AK123]

Originally Posted by contramundum

My beef is with the poor transportation, large population, ugliness, urban sprawl, and now Austin is teetering on violating federal clean air standards.

Sounds like Texas in general is not for you.

Originally Posted by contramundum

I want to breathe clean air. Which is why I just have to shake my head in disgust when some people talk about how great Houston is. Why don't they google 'houston air quality' ? They'll come to find out that next to Los Angeles, Houston has the poorest, most polluted air in the country.

First of all, that's not exactly true. There are several other cities ahead of Houston (all in California.) So except for one or two fluke years back around 2000, Houston is not even close to L.A. on pollution. Secondly, that's just ozone pollution -- there are many other types of pollution, most notably particulate pollution. The cities in the northeast are terrible for particulate pollution, while most Texas cities (including Houston and Austin) don't even rank on that type. Yet, many of these cities are constantly praised, while people fail to recognize they have major air pollution as well.

[orbius]

People dont realize one of the largest aluminum plants in the country is just down the road from Austin. Being in a state with essentially 0 emission regulations(nice work Bushie) means even if you live in a green city stuff is going to blow into town.

Special Deals for Alcoa Aluminum Texas' Largest Grandfathered Polluter

[Trainwreck20]

Being in a state with essentially 0 emission regulations

Texas has some of the most well developed regulations in the country, and in many cases some of the strictest. It would be more useful if you pulled up something relevant to today, since the entire smelting portion of the plant has been shut down, in a large part to environmental regulations. That link refers to the 'grandfathered' operation, which means that the article is many years old (I did not see a date anywhere).

By the way, that is one of the ONLY aluminum smelters left in the county, and there was significant pressure from much higher than state government to keep it in operation. If Alcoa had lowered its emissions to state and federal required levels, the cost of the material would have gone up significantly - and we Americans would just buy foreign aluminum products instead (we won't actually PAY the cost for a clean environment, just demand it).

[orbius]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Texas has some of the most well developed regulations in the country, and in many cases some of the strictest. It would be more useful if you pulled up something relevant to today, since the entire smelting portion of the plant has been shut down, in a large part to environmental regulations. That link refers to the 'grandfathered' operation, which means that the article is many years old.

By the way, that is one of the ONLY aluminum smelters left in the county, and there was significant pressure from much higher than state government to keep it in operation. If Alcoa had lowered its emissions to state and federal required levels, the cost of the material would have gone up significantly - and we Americans would just buy foreign aluminum products instead (we won't actually PAY the cost for a clean environment, just demand it).

So its ok to gas people to death if it results in a cost savings? And people wonder why Texas is such a polluted place with this type of mentality.

If you'd like to provide a link to show that most of the plant has shut down I'd be receptive to that. However my point holds. The way Texas politicians rallied around one of the worst toxic polluters in the state and crafted legislation specfically to protect them from having to meet basic pollution regulation says a lot. It shows how Texas generally approaches the issue. Pay no attention to public health, and service the whims of even the worst environmental polluters.

And as far as your assertion that Texas is heavily regulated thats just utter crap. "In Texas, Bush has deregulated environmental law enforcement in favor of voluntary compliance - a polluter's dream. According to EPA records, Texas leads the nation in toxic emissions, suspected carcinogens in the air, developmental toxins in the air (chemicals affecting brain and nervous system development in children), overall cancer risk and 10 other categories of dangerous air pollutants. "

[Trainwreck20]

Wow...did you see the statement about health care reform was going to require you to kill yourself when you get old? Believe that one too? And did you know that more people die in Texas every year than any other state besides California?

Texas leads the nation in toxic emissions, suspected carcinogens in the air, developmental toxins in the air (chemicals affecting brain and nervous system development in children), overall cancer risk and 10 other categories of dangerous air pollutants. "

Yep, probably does, but have you looked at the RATE of pollution? We produce probably 10x more chemicals than most every other state. So if we move all our plants to other states, we have solved our problem! Yeah! In fact, if we move it to a bunch of different states, they can control even less than we do, but it won't LOOK bad when you quote the numbers...

Texas requires controls on facilites that most other states exempt. They have many standards that are more stringent than the federal regulations. Texas is one of the only states that actually looks at the concentrations and health impacts of individual pollutants beyond the few 'high profile' ones or federally mandated ones.

So its ok to gas people to death if it results in a cost savings?

Who was gassed to death, I missed that one?

If you'd like to provide a link to show that most of the plant has shut down I'd be receptive to that.

Mineweb - BASE METALS - Alcoa to shut Rockdale Texas aluminum smelter

Well, we could argue this, but it is kind of pointless, I think. But in case you are really interested in the Texas regulations:
Home Page - Texas Commission on Environmental Quality - www.tceq.state.tx.us

[url=http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.ViewTAC?tac_view=4&ti=30&pt=1&ch=101[/url]

[url=http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.ViewTAC?tac_view=4&ti=30&pt=1&ch=116[/url]

[url=http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.ViewTAC?tac_view=4&ti=30&pt=1&ch=117[/url]

Just for a starting point....

[orbius]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Wow...did you see the statement about health care reform was going to require you to kill yourself when you get old? Believe that one too? And did you know that more people die in Texas every year than any other state besides California?


Yep, probably does, but have you looked at the RATE of pollution? We produce probably 10x more chemicals than most every other state. So if we move all our plants to other states, we have solved our problem! Yeah! In fact, if we move it to a bunch of different states, they can control even less than we do, but it won't LOOK bad when you quote the numbers...

Texas requires controls on facilites that most other states exempt. They have many standards that are more stringent than the federal regulations. Texas is one of the only states that actually looks at the concentrations and health impacts of individual pollutants beyond the few 'high profile' ones or federally mandated ones.


Who was gassed to death, I missed that one?


Mineweb - BASE METALS - Alcoa to shut Rockdale Texas aluminum smelter

Well, we could argue this, but it is kind of pointless, I think. But in case you are really interested in the Texas regulations:
Home Page - Texas Commission on Environmental Quality - www.tceq.state.tx.us

[url=http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.ViewTAC?tac_view=4&ti=30&pt=1&ch=101[/url]

[url=http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.ViewTAC?tac_view=4&ti=30&pt=1&ch=116[/url]

[url=http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.ViewTAC?tac_view=4&ti=30&pt=1&ch=117[/url]

Just for a starting point....

What part of the standards being 'voluntary' arent you grasping here. The standards mean nothing if theres no penalty for not abiding by them.
And if you dont see the correllation between voluntary standards and the amount of pollution in the state I dont know what to tell you.