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No it's cool. I believe you as I've never seen you post anything that appeared to be lies in any other threads, but I'm surprised that you don't believe that a panhandler is capable of punching a Chipotle employee and that the UT police didn't want to track him down for it. I'm also not sure what Loretta Lynn has to do with panhandlers, but I think you'll succeed at getting this thread locked soon enough. My first instinct is to believe what people say and it saddens me when someone asks me for money and then uses it for something other than what they said they were going to use it for.
As I said before, I agree. It's saddening that people lie for money. Our instincts differ though, b/c I always assume strangers asking for money are lying. You are less jaded than me, that is a good thing.
My point about Loretta Lynn was just sarcasm, (I know, the lowest form of debate). I don't know if that story at chipotle actually happened, but even if it did, I don't see it as really mattering. It's not that I don't think a homeless person could become violent, I just don't think that the offhand possiblity of violence is a good enough reason to round people up. I don't think that a homeless person becoming violent a few years ago can be used as a mandate to outlaw panhandling.
I also don't find it hard to believe that a UT football player can get drunk and pissed and pop someone in the mouth. But that doesn't mean I think we should ban all UT football players from 6th street.
I am not a particularly big fan of mimimomx3, nor she of me. But who are you to tell her she can't do anything she wants with her money?
I think the problems you are stating are exagerrated. Even if they are not, how is that the fault of mimimomx3? Call the police if you see this behavior. They will start patrolling and the situations that are truly illegal will subside. It is a HUGE leap to say "All the problems I observe on a greenbelt are a direct result of people giving money to panhandlers." You don't even KNOW if those lovely people using the greenbelt as a toilet are actually panhandlers. They might just be run of the mill insane. Either way, complaining about mimimom rather than calling the cops seems VERY silly on your part.
Some of the people who panhandle are legitimately in need, some are scammers, and neither of them are your buisness. If you don't want to give them money because you are convinced it is going to be used to fund addiction and crime, then don't. You don't have too. And if Mimimomx3 wants to give them money, she can.
Are we not adults here? How easy is it to bully you that homeless people are actually a problem for you? My god, what do you do when the mormons come to your door? Or those damn girl scouts pushing their delicious cookies in front of SAMS. Grow a spine people. "I can't stand up for myself, so let's make it illegal for people to ask me something." Right on, that sounds like a good idea.
I personally choose not to give money to panhandlers for a variety of reasons. And if one of them got aggressive with me, I would be aggressive back, or I would walk/drive away. What is wrong with us as people? A bum makes us feel uncomfortable so we want to take away their consititutional right to be a bum? I have dealt with NYC panhandlers, and trust me, they are aggressive. They will cuss you out if you don't give them money. But what is the alternative? Shipping all the homeless people to some other state? Like Guilliani did in NYC? "They make me feel bad.....cry", is not an appropriate reason to remove someones rights, including their right to be shiftless lay-a-bouts begging for change.
Reading thru this thread made me laugh. People who usually go on and on post after post about how conservative principles will save America and how small government is the answer to America's problems, they are the first ones to go "Why doesn't the city council do something about this! I am offended looking at the homeless!! Ship them off!! Make it illegal to be down on your luck!!"
You live in a metropolitan area. You get the benefits of theaters, and sporting events, and concerts, and restaurants, and outdoor parks. In exchange you deal with traffic, noise pollution, high home prices, and yes the homeless. They have just as much right to be in Austin as you and I do.
And saying "thanks a whole bunch mimimomx3 for personally continuing the homeless problem" is sort of silly. There has been poverty since the beggining of time. The bible mentions the impoverished as far back as 6000 years ago. The Hammurabi code has stipulations for the poor. Poverty is a HUMAN CONDITION. It will always exist, whether or not you give money to panhandlers or not. Even if we made panhandling illegal, worthless people would find another way to scam money. That is what they do. They are much more clever than you give them credit for. And they can adjust their strategies much faster than we can legisltate against them.
In fact, you should THANK mimimomx3 for giving money to certain panhandlers. The reason panhandlers get aggressive in the first place is because they are competing for a limited pool of "donations". If everyone stopped giving money, they wouldn't magically go away, they would get REALLY aggressive to compete.
Oh Texans, you make me so sad to be a native son sometimes. "Gays make me uncomfortable! Take away their rights! Homeless peope make me uncomfortable! Take away their rights!! What? My HOA wants me to park in my garage??? BIG GOVERNMENT BIG GOVERNMENT!! Big Brother is coming to take away my constitutional rights to park in the street!!!"
LOLS, JayBrown. I am happy to share my money with whomever I please. I do agree that people have the right to live wherever they please, according to the laws of a community. If it's illegal to 'camp' in Austin- then enforce it. Otherwise, they have the right to exercise their civil rights. Wow. Look for a rainbow. Jay and I agree.
Who said they have the right to impede your progress wherever you are going? Can you please point out who said that? You used a quote from my post, but I didn't say that at all, so surely you can't mean me. Unless you are one of those people that just have an axe to grind, therefore you don't actually read posts before you comment on them? Surely you are not one of those?
The line being calling the police, just as you would with anyone who got aggressive and impeded you. As I said above.
If someone robs you at gun point, or tries to grab you, or won't let you go when you tell them to leave you alone, or is making threatening remarks, or keeps on following you when you have asked them to stop, or enters your establishment when you have asked them to leave or or or or or.....you call the cops, simple.
You don't legislate and say these people aren't allowed to exist, which is what many ppl on this thread are saying. And if you had bothered to read my post, you would know that is what I was speaking against, namely the legislative destruction of peoples rights because other people don't want to "man up" and say "leave me alone".
I can't help but think that if this was the salvation army stopping you outside of a store and being aggressive about "donations" that your first instinct WOULD NOT be to "knee them in the groin". To me, that reveals a lot more about you than you might want us to know. Basically you are saying "if a homeless person is aggressive with me, then I am going to physically assault them". I feel sorry for anyone that cuts you off in traffic. What do you do to them? Pull out a pistol and open fire?
There are a lot of aggressive people in the world, is everyone going to get the knee from you? Why wouldn't your first instinct be to say "If you don't leave me alone, I am calling the cops"?
I think a lot of people, maybe even you, have this superior feeling to the homeless. Surely they are beneath you, right? That is why our first reaction to them is contempt and thoughts of violence? And it never occurs to us to be firm, like you would be with Mormons at your door, and saying "I am not interested".
There are a lot of horror stories about panhandlers being bandied about these boards, and none of them end with "And I reported them to the authorities". I find that to be curious. Is everyone exxagerating, or is it normal behavior to let aggressive predators accost some other poor slob and you doing nothing to stop it?
Wow. One simple comment brings on this barrage?
When I ask them very POINTEDLY to leave me alone THREE times--and they persist, yeah, I have thoughts of kneeing them in the groin. But it's just that....a THOUGHT.
After the third time and a not-so-nice tone of voice, the two (at different times) in the parking lot that were on the point of getting aggressive apparently decided to leave me alone, and that's fine with me.
So you think that the cops are going to come running? LOL!!
The panhandlers are everywhere....in Walmart/grocery store parking lots, street corners, stop signs/lights......and yes, some of them DO try to stop you and step in your way.
I hate to see that happen to Austin, but it is what it is.
So calm down, and don't get your lil feathers all ruffled, OK?
I mean, technically the crazy republican walking down the street might shoot me down because I am holding my boyfriends hand. Does that mean that I can't hold his hand? Does that mean Crazy republicans should not be allowed out in the street? Wait.....that I could get behind.
drama much
what if that same "RWR" followed you down the street with their Kansas based Baptist church group and screamed in your ear about the sin of your gay relationship and then showed up at the funeral of any friend you may have that died in military service and screamed in your ear about your friend being dead because of the acceptance of your sinful gay relationship
you are surely for the freedom for people to be aggressive about their feelings and rights as well correct
and you would also be ok with at least once a week having to call the police to get these people from following you around being aggressive towards you and waiting 2 hours until the police arrive, they are gone, and the cops tell you that you can try and ID them, go to court to get a restraining order against them, and then after you get the restraining order.....the cops can only really use it if they roll up on the scene and see them in violation of the restraining order
I mean surely all that makes sense to you right.....people following you around, annoying you, getting into your private life about your money, or your private sex life, or your eating habits, or the materials your clothing is made from, or the car you drive......that would all be OK with you right.....and if you got tired of it just stop down for two or three hours of your life for the police to come and basically tell you that you are SOL because they did not touch you and they have freedom of speech
I mean surely you were celebrating the Westboro Baptist church court case correct.......because all they are doing is "their thing man" right.....or maybe Westboro needs to ask for money at the same time they protest and that would make it OK with you right
you are surely for the freedom for people to be aggressive about their feelings and rights as well correct
I mean surely you were celebrating the Westboro Baptist church court case correct.......because all they are doing is "their thing man" right.....or maybe Westboro needs to ask for money at the same time they protest and that would make it OK with you right
Well, in case you were unaware, the Westsboro Church HAS been showing up at gay funerals and attacking gay people for the last 12 years. They showed up at Matthew Shepards funeral, the gay teen who was left to bleed to death tied to a fence, and shouted obscenities at his mother.
I find it sort of interesting because they have protested gay funerals for over a decade and no one cared. But they start protesting soldiers funerals, and WATCH OUT! I guess that shows you how devauled gay people are in America.
To answer your question though, I don't CELEBRATE people being stupid. I don't celebrate Christians who go and scream at grieving mothers. I don't celebrate panhandlers asking for money. I don't celebrate people getting abortions. I don't celebrate going to the doctor and getting allergy shots.
That doesn't mean that these things don't occur. And I don't have a right to press my beliefs on them. I personally don't care for the Westboro chuch. My opinion of them doesn't change the fact that YES they are able to practice their right to protest. It sucks, they are scum, but they are American scum, and they enjoy the same rights as I do. I would support anyone's right to protest.
I support somones right to protest an abortion clinic. I support someones right to protest an anti-abortion rally. I support the right of the KKK to protest the government. I support the right of the NAACP to protest the KKK.
In my mind it is UNAMERICAN to remove a person rights because they make you feel uncomfortable. And that is what people on this board are advocating. "Panhandlers make me uncomfortable, so let's make it illegal to panhandle". The onus is on YOU dear. You don't get to legislate your icky feelings. If Panhandling was illegal, are you going to have them arrest firemen when they stand on the street corner asking for donations? What about church groups? What about political action committees? It's a slippery slope that you can't wait to slide down, because you don't possess the ability to tell someone "no".
YOU DON'T GET TOO remove someones constitutional rights just because you are too spineless to deal with a situation yourself.
And you may try to bait me, because I am gay, and say "well, I bet you wouldn't want the Westboro Chuch to be able to follow you around, I bet you would pass a law then". But you would be wrong. Because there ARE ways to solve problems WITHOUT being violent and WITHOUT legislating away our hard fought rights.
Look up "Laramie Project Angels". You see, when the lovely christian Mr. Phelps and his Westoboro church went to Topeka to ask that a marble shrine 6 feet in height be built to commemorate Matthew Shepards death (He even wanted to have the date of Shepards death carved into the monument with the title "The day Matthew Shepard entered hell"), many gay counter-protestors showed up in white robes wearing large angelic wings. And when the christians were spewing their hate, the angel counter protestors stood in a line, turned their back on the Phelps, and the heigth and size of their wings blocked all the good people in the counter protest from being able to see the Westboro church. Very elegant, and excellent symbolism.
You see, the counter protestors SOLVED their own problem, WITHOUT violence and WITHOUT legislation. Not by whining to the government asking them to pass laws. Not by suing to remove someones constitutional rights.
"
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasVines
drama much
you are surely for the freedom for people to be aggressive about their feelings and rights as well correct
I never said that. In fact I said that panhandlers should NOT be aggressive, and that if they are aggressive, that is your queue to get away from them or to call the police. I mean, we know you are totally incorrect here, but no reason to put words in my mouth. But in case you are truly confused and you honestly don't understand what you read though, let me clarify. "I am surely for the freedom for people to have opinons, to state their opinions, to peacefully assemble, to practice their constitutional rights, even if, ESPECIALLY IF, I dont agree with them"
But this is all a red herring. Because no one has said that panhandlers have been as intrusive or as hateful as christians are. No one has said that panhandler has followed them home, or tried to pry into their sex life, or showed up every other week at their front door, which is the example you give above. One has nothing to do with the other.
What they HAVE said is "Panhandlers annoy me, they sometimes scare me...They COULD get violent....um... I could just be an adult and handle it myself.....Um...No, LET'S SHRED THE CONSTITUTION! Yeah, that's much easier"
So to get back on topic.."AUSTIN"..yeah I think they've become more aggressive over the years.
Could be there's that many more of them that call Austin their home(less).
So to get back on topic.."AUSTIN"..yeah I think they've become more aggressive over the years. Could be there's that many more of them that call Austin their home(less).
We are in a huge recession with a large unemployment rate. Although Austin has fared better than some, there is no wall around cities to keep out the homeless from other cities.
When the economy goes bad, ppl that were barely hanging on to begin with fall of the edge. Social services and non profits that help the poor/homeless shut their doors. Depression becomes more prevalent, as does alcohol and drug abuse.
All these things lead to higher homelessness and an increase in panhandling/general begging. It's true all over the world right now.
I find it sort of interesting because they have protested gay funerals for over a decade and no one cared. But they start protesting soldiers funerals, and WATCH OUT! I guess that shows you how devauled gay people are in America.
I had no idea that was going on for over a decade. Furthermore, I don't keep up on every single issue. It's impossible. I wouldn't jump to being devalued.
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