AISD Money Issues (Austin: low income, catholic schools, income)

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by sinking

Is $8-10k really how much money is going to educate each kid or are these just numbers you are using for an example? If so, it sounds like there is some serious fat that can be cut out of there. For example, I just read an article about the Catholic grade school I went to. It mentions the tuition is $3k for students of parishoners. Now, I know that some of the schools expenses are subsidized by the parish but I can't imagine this small parish is able to subsidize $1,250,000 to teach the 250 students.

According to: http://www.austinisd.org/inside/docs/AISD_Budget_At_A_Glance_20091119.pdf (broken link)

AISD states that the expenditure per student is $8,301 (2010-2011). This website http://www.austinchamber.com/DoBusiness/GreaterAustinProfile/AustinPrivateSchoolsList.pdf (broken link) shows the tuition for a variety of private schools with tuition that ranges from $4,000/yr- $15,000/yr.

So how private schools in Austin are able to educate kids for a whole lot less than AISD?? Note that some of these private schools, like Rawson Saunders, are geared toward special needs. It CAN be done- but not by big government.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by h886

It will do nothing of the kind to improve public school and in fact, will hurt it. Public schools should get full funding not have further money taken away from the pot to go to private schools whether it be in vouchers or any other form. Private schools have the luxury of being able to reject who they want, leaving all the neediest students behind. There is something very wrong with trying to take even more away from the very kids who have the least.

At the moment, we are taking away from EVERYONE. We must hold AISD accountable and privatize education. Competition is good and necessary.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by h886

People have explained this so many times already... but I'll try again...

Some of these poor families cannot afford transportation to a private school, nor uniforms if required, nor extra materials if required. It's not a matter of not WANTING to go there, it's a matter of not being able to get there. Will private schools be stepping up to the plate? Sure, one or two kids won't be a problem... but what if 64% of a private school is economically disadvantaged (like AISD is)? What will they do then? Will they be providing free lunch for these kids like public school does?

The other issue is that private schools by their very design are allowed to reject any "unsavory" students they wish to. Any student with discipline issues can be kicked out. Any student who is too difficult to teach (for whatever reason) can be kicked out. There are some private schools in Austin that specialize in learning disabilities, but there are some kids in special ed that no one will want to take.

So is your idea basically that all education will go private and only the poorest and neediest members of society will go to public school? The families already rich enough to afford private school will get a few extra thousand a year in tax breaks while the neediest who can't make transportation work, can't afford a uniform, have behavioral, learning or other issues will be in public school.

That's pretty sad.

Who ever said anything about uniforms and extra supplies?

Let me try again. Let people take the money that they are currently sending to AISD and use that money however they want, for whatever school they want. THE family applies to a school- a private school, a trade school, a bilingual school, a half day school, homeschool, unschool, parochial school, whatever interests THEIR child. Maybe I want a year around school. Maybe I want a school that will teach all in Mandarin. I can almost gaurantee that these smaller, privately run (i.e., with an eye on profit and loss) schools will be able to educate kids MUCH more cheaply than AISD ($8.300/kid/year). The family takes their voucher to the school. If the tuition is smaller than their voucher, they're set. If the school is MORE than their voucher, they apply for financial aid, get a loan, work another job, ask a relative...it's THEIR choice.

If parents don't care to find another school or don't want to, their kids go to a government school for the amount of their voucher. Would the public schools educate only the 'dregs of humanity', as you say? Maybe, maybe not.

I would imagine the public school option AISD under vouchers would look a lot like it does now, only smaller and more competitive, because it would be competing for students against other schools. There is NO INCENTIVE currently for public schools to improve. THAT'S pretty sad.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

According to: http://www.austinisd.org/inside/docs/AISD_Budget_At_A_Glance_20091119.pdf (broken link)

AISD states that the expenditure per student is $8,301 (2010-2011). This website http://www.austinchamber.com/DoBusiness/GreaterAustinProfile/AustinPrivateSchoolsList.pdf (broken link) shows the tuition for a variety of private schools with tuition that ranges from $4,000/yr- $15,000/yr.

So how private schools in Austin are able to educate kids for a whole lot less than AISD?? Note that some of these private schools, like Rawson Saunders, are geared toward special needs. It CAN be done- but not by big government.

you keep trying to ignore the fact that private schools can kick anyone out they want to. Plus they get donations as well from wealthy parents who are glad to pay for the privilege of keeping out the "riff raff". Finally schools like st stevens cost about 20K in the upper classes.

Most of the good ones I am aware of are 10k+ for elementary and in the 15-20K range for high school.

So private schools are
1) more expensive
2) can kick out anyone for any reason
3) dont handle special needs

I think 8K/student is a bargain, but Im sure we can do it for even less.

[HappyTexan]

Well vouchers are not even mentioned as a way to deal with AISD money problems.
Looks like not only will schools be closing but programs and staff are going to get cut.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

I would imagine the public school option AISD under vouchers would look a lot like it does now, only smaller and more competitive, because it would be competing for students against other schools. There is NO INCENTIVE currently for public schools to improve. THAT'S pretty sad.

why not competition within the public school system? (and the answer for why not religious schools is that it is probably unconstitutional)

Im skeptical that there are any schools with significantly less than 8k in tuition

Magellan - Annual Tuition for K and above $11,300
asian american cultural center (full immersion mandarin) 5-day, $855/mo
st stevens - 20K/year
waldorf k -9500, 1st grade + 11, high school 12K
st michaels 12K

[LittleCityATX]

h886,

It would make sense that any school that accepts public vouchers would be required to take any student that applies (they wouldn't be allowed to filter). They would also be subject to some core set of regulations. This would be to ensure that they have to compete on merit and not via segregation.

Also, there could be several types of vouchers beyond tuition vouchers. Examples might be: food vouchers and transportation vouchers for students that demonstrate need. Poor kids should get the same access to great schools as rich kids.

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by LittleCityATX

h886,

It would make sense that any school that accepts public vouchers would be required to take any student that applies (they wouldn't be allowed to filter). They would also be subject to some core set of regulations. This would be to ensure that they have to compete on merit and not via segregation.

Also, there could be several types of vouchers beyond tuition vouchers. Examples might be: food vouchers and transportation vouchers for students that demonstrate need. Poor kids should get the same access to great schools as rich kids.

And then what happens when revenue drops ? Vouchers get cut ?
Now you're back in the same position you are in today...spending more than you take in.

[LittleCityATX]

You only have as much money as you have in any system. Voucher proponents expect that private schools will spend whatever money there is more efficiently than public schools.

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by Austin97

you keep trying to ignore the fact that private schools can kick anyone out they want to. Plus they get donations as well from wealthy parents who are glad to pay for the privilege of keeping out the "riff raff". Finally schools like st stevens cost about 20K in the upper classes.

Most of the good ones I am aware of are 10k+ for elementary and in the 15-20K range for high school.

So private schools are
1) more expensive
2) can kick out anyone for any reason
3) dont handle special needs

I think 8K/student is a bargain, but Im sure we can do it for even less.

Not all private schools are $20K- St. Austin and Redeemer are in the $5000 range- great schools.
Many private schools actually TARGET special needs kids- Rawson Saunders is a great example. The specialize in dyslexia..