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You're right, this city will grow (and grow rapidly) regardless. But new roads are being built, and will continue to be built. Williamson County has built new highways and is being very proactive in preserving the ROW for future corridors. People will thus move to Round Rock, Leander, Cedar Park and Hutto in droves.
Indeed, the sprawl Austin has seen over the past decade is small potatoes compared to what is on the horizon. Drive out along the 183/183A corridor and tell me we aren't developing a faithful recreation of north Dallas here in central Texas.
Sure, a fair number of people like TexasHorseLady are against freeway expansion and "bandaids" and instead clamor for more "comprehensive" solutions. Problem is, a vocal minority in central Austin are anti-density, anti-development; moreover, the local transit agency is a, I'm sorry, train wreck whose perpetual failures have all but doomed the prospects for rail in Austin in the near-term. We had our chance in 2000--it will be some time before we get that chance again.
We can try to pretend this is a currently a transit-friendly, walkable city, but at the end of the day you really need a car to live here. New roads have to be built for all the new people because that is the situation Austin has forced itself into. Freeway expansion IS the only viable solution for Austin in the near-term. Real "bandaids" like staggering work hours or telecommuting will have minimal (if any) impact and absolutely will not alleviate this need, no matter what the anti-road ideologues say.
I suppose folks like myself, AmberAzeneth, and eepstein can take solace in the fact that at the end of the day, this is Texas--home of the 120-foot-tall High Five interchange and 20-plus-lane Katy Freeway--and it is simply inevitable that I-35 and Mopac will both be rebuilt and expanded. I know I speak for the majority of greater Austin in saying we look forward to it.
And you know this how? I can say that I speak for the majority of greater Austin when I say exactly the opposite, with just as much validity.
I still don't understand how people are saying that metro Austin doesn't practice the EXACT same principals of sprawl similar to other areas like Houston and Dallas. Feconi is exactly correct. The 1431 area around the 183A is about as faceless as it gets. Oh wait, there are the Hutto strip malls along 79 as well, and OH wait, the Buda strip malls as well. It's classic big box store and strip mall sprawl at it's finest. How is this any different from the faceless areas of Katy, League City, Lancaster, Duncanville, Frisco, etc?? It is the same ideas to ENCOURAGE people to move further and further out of town. Cedar Park and Leander for example have ZERO public transportation options. So people are literally FORCED into their vehicles to get to work.
Why are we ENCOURAGING this growth by building ugly, faceless strip malls and then rewarding people with nice shiny new tollways and cheaper housing (Dr horton specials built with toothpicks)??
Austin has done NOTHING to change this. The city clearly has NO interest in helping it's infastructure whatsoever. I have said this time and time again. The city of Austin is putting most of their money into the downtown part of the city. Spending hundreds of millions for high rise condos (for the rich), slowly bringing high end shopping downtown (for the rich), and making lots of park and bicycle improvements downtown and central (for the rich) Because the city is so corrupt and biast toward anyone who isn't rich, cities like Round Rock, Cedar Park, etc have to "pick up the slack" so to speak.
There no doubt that I-35 and Mopac are the two most critical transportation networks within Austin. They are both completely outdated, dangerous, and pretty much eyesores at every turn. A citys transportation network is pretty much the backbone of its longterm economic vitality. As long as the city of Austin continues to ignore it's transportation needs, the longterm future of this city remains highly questionable.
Believe me, im not a big fan of San Antonio, but im sure that they would be more than happy to take some of the high tech load off of austin in 10-20 years when the cities high cost of living, horrible traffic, and arrogant attitudes drive business looking for easier places to set up shop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by feconi
You're right, this city will grow (and grow rapidly) regardless. But new roads are being built, and will continue to be built. Williamson County has built new highways and is being very proactive in preserving the ROW for future corridors. People will thus move to Round Rock, Leander, Cedar Park and Hutto in droves.
Indeed, the sprawl Austin has seen over the past decade is small potatoes compared to what is on the horizon. Drive out along the 183/183A corridor and tell me we aren't developing a faithful recreation of north Dallas here in central Texas.
Sure, a fair number of people like TexasHorseLady are against freeway expansion and "bandaids" and instead clamor for more "comprehensive" solutions. Problem is, a vocal minority in central Austin are anti-density, anti-development; moreover, the local transit agency is a, I'm sorry, train wreck whose perpetual failures have all but doomed the prospects for rail in Austin in the near-term. We had our chance in 2000--it will be some time before we get that chance again.
We can try to pretend this is a currently a transit-friendly, walkable city, but at the end of the day you really need a car to live here. New roads have to be built for all the new people because that is the situation Austin has forced itself into. Freeway expansion IS the only viable solution for Austin in the near-term. Real "bandaids" like staggering work hours or telecommuting will have minimal (if any) impact and absolutely will not alleviate this need, no matter what the anti-road ideologues say.
I suppose folks like myself, AmberAzeneth, and eepstein can take solace in the fact that at the end of the day, this is Texas--home of the 120-foot-tall High Five interchange and 20-plus-lane Katy Freeway--and it is simply inevitable that I-35 and Mopac will both be rebuilt and expanded. I know I speak for the majority of greater Austin in saying we look forward to it.
And you know this how? I can say that I speak for the majority of greater Austin when I say exactly the opposite, with just as much validity.
Riiiiight, the majority of the population of greater Austin (which does not live in Austin proper) doesn't want their commute to get easier by expanding I-35 and Mopac. For most of those people the choice is very simple: do I want (a) a 30 minute rush hour commute or (b) a 60 minute rush hour commute?
Nevermind that the recent Imagine Austin citywide survey pegged transporation infrastructure as the number one priority for capital improvement projects, and that repairing or replacing outdated infrastructure (of which there is not one better example than I-35) was also identified one of the top issues facing our community--and these are the priorities described, largely, by the upwardly mobile population living in central Austin. So it would seem there is not only the obvious majority of suburban dwellers (the majority of greater Austin's population) who would prefer I-35 and Mopac be rebuilt, but also a large subset if not majority of city of Austin residents who support freeway improvements.
As an aside: keep in mind that I and many others are not advocating for I-35 to be widened to 20 lanes, but rather something like 10 lanes with continuous HOV lanes, more distance between on/off ramps, etc. Some on this forum seem to equate "rebuilding I-35" with "widen I-35 to 26 lanes."
In short, you'd be delusional to think a solid majority of people in this area don't support freeway reconstruction. Of course, you'd also have to be delusional to think congestion issues in Austin can be entirely solved by continuing to neglect I-35 and Mopac indefinitely...
One can pave over a city without having 26 lane freeways, you know. One can tear down the very things that make the city what it is in deference to the "must get there faster gods" to the point that when you're done, there's no place that anyone sane would want to go - just more concrete and big boxes and chain restaurants.
I realize that many of you advocating this either don't live in Austin or lived elsewhere that IS like that and moved here and are apparently homesick for pavement, but, really, quality of life is about a heck of a lot more than how fast you can get nowhere.
Enough vague references to "paving" and "pavement"--give us a concrete (sorry) explanation as to how widening I-35 from 6 lanes to 10 lanes through central Austin would have a negative effect on the urban fabric of the city. Strip centers and big box stores would not suddenly pop up where there are now houses and local restaurants. Really, what is your objection here?
Full disclaimer--I live literally adjacent to I-35 in central Austin, and cross over and under the freeway on a regular basis by foot and on bike. I also drive on I-35 on a regular basis. Widening I-35 could almost certainly be done in this area without tearing down anything, and certainly would not destroy my neighborhood.
Again, please justify this misguided notion of yours that addressing our transportation crisis must come at the cost of the character of our neighborhoods and city.
As an outsider I don't want roads to built for the sake of making people happy. I want to know there is a plan for dealing with the growth that is coming and IMO saying "We are Austin lets try something different" is not a plan. You think the DC area wanted this much pavement 20 or 30 years ago? You don't think NY didn't look in to other options, or Raleigh? or Dallas?
Mass Transit, high density communities, and smart building are other options but the last time I looked NYC has all that and to me its nothing but pavement (no offense to anyone from NYC, I love the city but could not live there).
Growth is coming, even if no one entered this country from this point forward we would still have growth due to people living longer and child birth.
To me QOL is partially based on the ability to get work and back to my home in a timely fashion. And yes I can live close to my office but what about my wife. Getting a job close to home is not always easy, getting 2 is near impossible. Or maybe we should go back in time where a woman stayed home as that was a change some people didn't embrace but good luck breaking that news to my wife.
I live in Loudoun County in VA and its one of the richest in the country. There is a lot of old $$ and those who did not want growth impeding on their view of the mountians and impact their "Loudoun county". They spent a lot of $$ fighting growth (unless it was their 3000 acre farm they were selling for millions) but after it was all said and done the needed roads got built and it didn't have as big of an impact as everyone feared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady
One can pave over a city without having 26 lane freeways, you know. One can tear down the very things that make the city what it is in deference to the "must get there faster gods" to the point that when you're done, there's no place that anyone sane would want to go - just more concrete and big boxes and chain restaurants.
I realize that many of you advocating this either don't live in Austin or lived elsewhere that IS like that and moved here and are apparently homesick for pavement, but, really, quality of life is about a heck of a lot more than how fast you can get nowhere.
Although it would cost BIG bucks, I-35 through downtown could be completely trenched. There would be no need to encroach on any further ROW. The design would likely be somewhat similar to the new 635 design in Dallas. One direction would be trenched below, and the other would be at street level. It could actually be astetically pleasing rather than the miserable eyesore that it is now. Bridges would have to be widened south of downtown, but aside from the downtown area, I-35 has plenty of room to expand to 4 lanes in each direction with an HOV or toll-lane in addition at least up to Parmer Lane and south down beyond Slaughter.
Once the railroad is relocated, Mopac has plenty of room to expand to the referred I-35 alignment specs. And also, without ANY FURTHER encrochment to the ROW. Gee, it could also be trenched similar to the Central Exp. in Dallas--this would mean a wider freeway, and LESS noise for the rich people. Gee, imagine that??
I-35 through downtown is an EYESORE to everyone. How would tearing it down and making the freeway better looking and more efficient affect the citys quality of life? Do you not realize what will happen to the quality of life if NOTHING is done?? I realize some people have never left Texas and the Austin area, but it is scarey how far the city has it's head buried in the sand.
Also, please name a specific area along I-35 that is at risk of loosing it's "character". Forgive me, but most of I-35 in metro austin is nothing more than strip malls, car dealerships, cheap hotels, and more strip malls. (similar to I-35 in NE San Antonio) There is little "character" that I can see. PERHAPS you would have a better argument along mopac which does actually go through some areas with more "character" as you call it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by feconi
Enough vague references to "paving" and "pavement"--give us a concrete (sorry) explanation as to how widening I-35 from 6 lanes to 10 lanes through central Austin would have a negative effect on the urban fabric of the city. Strip centers and big box stores would not suddenly pop up where there are now houses and local restaurants. Really, what is your objection here?
Full disclaimer--I live literally adjacent to I-35 in central Austin, and cross over and under the freeway on a regular basis by foot and on bike. I also drive on I-35 on a regular basis. Widening I-35 could almost certainly be done in this area without tearing down anything, and certainly would not destroy my neighborhood.
Again, please justify this misguided notion of yours that addressing our transportation crisis must come at the cost of the character of our neighborhoods and city.
eepstein, your assumption that anyone who doesn't want to turn Austin into pavement city has never left the city, or Texas, could hardly be further from the truth, but, wait . . . that's never stopped you before, has it?
I'm thinking that the disconnect here may be between those who have been around long enough to have ALREADY SEEN what is destroyed by widening the roads through those areas, who remember what was lost, and who aren't interested in buting yet another "oh, but it would be just a little bit of Austin's culture lost!", and those who never knew what they lost because they never got to see it.
THL, the "pavement" of rebuilt and new freeways is going to be a reality. It will get done contrary to all of the objections. It will also, as I have been saying, help the greater good of Austin and improve hundreds of thousands of peoples quality of life.
I'm thinking that the disconnect here may be between those who have been around long enough to have ALREADY SEEN what is destroyed by widening the roads through those areas, who remember what was lost, and who aren't interested in buting yet another "oh, but it would be just a little bit of Austin's culture lost!", and those who never knew what they lost because they never got to see it.
you can't help it. Austin is changing whether you like it or not.
maybe you should start a please no more outsiders campaign.
Its funny how people look at me funny when I say the more people Austin gains the less attractive that place is going to become because people who knew it just 5 years ago are talking about the vast change in such a little time let alone the the people who knew it 15, 20, 30 years ago.
People liked Austin because there were fairly a lot of people but it still felt small.
Have you by any chance seen the number of people they are predicting will reside in central Texas in the next 40 years Texas Horse Lady??
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