My friend got BS Charge! 6th Street TABC (Nevada: crime, live)

[ScoPro]

Originally Posted by JayBrown80

....


Your friend is not allowed in many bars if he is under 21. That is why they check ID at the door. Being in the bar makes him guilty. Bartenders don't ask for ID at the bar, b/c you shouldnt' be in the club if you are under 21. You must know this, that is why your friend used a fake ID to get in. If you didn't know that, then why did your friend possess a fake ID to begin with? If he wasn't going to drink, why use a fake ID to begin with? You can't be serious. Basically your friend broke the law, and was lucky to only get an MIP.

This post cannot be serious. "My friend used a Fake ID to sneak into bars and check out the ladies!! oh yeah!" And then he gets busted for being where he is not supposed to be. Sounds about right to me.

By the way, the Gestapo broke into people homes in the middle of the night and beat them to death in front of their children. The TABC simply busted a couple of dumbasses on 6th street. Hardly the same thing.

This is correct.

It amazes me to read all the posters who think the law doesn't apply to them, and their ignorance of what the Gestapo really was.

Godwin's Law must be a foreign concept to such ignoramuses.

[jonsoncd]

Originally Posted by JayBrown80

Apparently in your rush to exonerate this stranger and call everyone else jerks, you didn't even bother to read the OP's first post where he states his friend did just exactly that.

So assuming he is guilty (when he stated he was guilty) makes me a jerk, but your assumption he is innocent (when he stated he was guilty) makes you smart?

I think you are mixed up there.

By the way, sneaking into a bar when you are under age is also illegal, no fake id required. So saying "maybe he just snuck in!! hee hee hee hee" Is not really much better.

Apparently, in YOUR rush to accuse me of NOT READING, let me refer to what I said in my first post:

Yes, the fake ID is illegal, but the officer was unaware of the fake ID, thus it's not a valid argument in this case.

Let me reiterate: The officer did not know the kid had a fake ID. We only know that IN THIS THREAD because the OP divulged that information, but the OFFICER WAS UNAWARE because he was only presented with the real ID; thus, the fake does not exist to the officer. I am only arguing that there are other possibilities for how he could have entered the bar. You are accusing this 20 year-old under [very little] circumstantial information. This is how people get wrongly convicted of crimes they haven't committed.

[atxcio]

Originally Posted by jonsoncd

Let me reiterate: The officer did not know the kid had a fake ID. We only know that IN THIS THREAD because the OP divulged that information, but the OFFICER WAS UNAWARE because he was only presented with the real ID; thus, the fake does not exist to the officer. I am only arguing that there are other possibilities for how he could have entered the bar. You are accusing this 20 year-old under [very little] circumstantial information. This is how people get wrongly convicted of crimes they haven't committed.

Geez, this victim mentality just drives me nuts. Not saying it's you, it's more the OP... who first off, isn't even the guy in question. For all we know, the guy himself is perfectly happy taking the consequence (MIP) for his actions (passing a fake ID). If the military has taught him anything, it should be that actions have consequences. Yes, we're all going to make mistakes and use bad judgment sometimes. That's what humans do -- I'm not passing judgment on that. However, I WILL pass judgment on the spineless people who think that nothing is ever their fault, that any adversity that comes to them simply must have been the result of something outside their control or someone "out to get them". To those folks, I simply say: hope you grow up one of these days, and learn what it means to be a man (or woman).

Perhaps the kid looked young. Perhaps the officer saw him show something to the bouncer. Perhaps he was having a conversation that indicated his age. The TABC may be guilty of a lot of things, but one of the legitimate things they should be doing is trying to catch people sneaking into bars underage. That would include, IMO, occasionally asking for people's IDs if they suspect they are underage. They are only doing what is already asked of the patrons when they walked in the door. The bartender, owner, or bouncer could have asked the guy's ID at anytime before or after the person was in the bar. It's not a public sidewalk or anything. It's a bar, where proof of ID is required and alcohol is sold (a government regulated drug, essentially.)

And when he caught the guy, perhaps he gave him an MIP to give him a break. Maybe the passing-a-fake-ID charge is much worse. And once the guy had been nailed, if there is any alcohol around they can pretty much issue an MIP. They do this when they bust parties, etc.

[jonsoncd]

Originally Posted by atxcio

And once the guy had been nailed, if there is any alcohol around they can pretty much issue an MIP. They do this when they bust parties, etc.

See, and that's why I gave the disclaimer earlier that I am new to Texas and not privy to Texas law.

I'm not sure if this is how the law is written, but every party I attended in college that was busted, only those minors literally in possession would get in trouble. There was also a time when I was 21 and at a party and the cops stopped me on the sidewalk to cite me for open container. When they discovered that my bottle was empty, they couldn't cite me (and keep in mind, I went to a college whose city cops were very strict and seemed to always find a reason to ticket or arrest), even though the circumstantial evidence showed that I was on the street drinking a beer.

I guess in Texas, you don't have to be caught red-handed!

[love roses]

"The officer did not know the kid had a fake ID. We only know that IN THIS THREAD because the OP divulged that information, but the OFFICER WAS UNAWARE because he was only presented with the real ID; thus, the fake does not exist to the officer. I am only arguing that there are other possibilities for how he could have entered the bar. You are accusing this 20 year-old under [very little] circumstantial information. This is how people get wrongly convicted of crimes they haven't committed."


And the real ID said he was underage, so the fake ID didn't even NEED to come in play. He only got a ticket. It doesn't really matter HOW he got into the bar, he was there and underage and got caught.

[mimimomx3]

This may or may not pertain to the OP, but are you obliged to show ID to a TABC officer? To the police?

[atxcio]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

This may or may not pertain to the OP, but are you obliged to show ID to a TABC officer? To the police?

Seems like there have been a few cases about the constitutionality of this. Certainly if you are walking down the street, or in a public place, you aren't supposed to have to show any "papers" (id, etc).

In a private bar, I think they can ask and you are obliged to show. Just like they can in casinos (where gambling is legal). The key difference being, I believe, that if you are in one of those places and look underage -- that's probable cause that you may be committing a crime.

[TexasHorseLady]

Okay, I went to the source, the TABC website. Found these two things in the Texas Peace Officer's Guide to the Alcoholic Beverage Code:

Attempt to Purchase Alcohol by a Minor
[Section 106.025 AB Code]
A minor commits an offense if, with specific intent to purchase alcoholic beverages, the minor does an act amounting to more than mere preparation but fails to purchase alcoholic beverages.

Using a fake ID to enter an establishment whose purpose is to sell alcoholic beverages would seem to qualify. It is, by the way, entirely legal for a minor to enter a bar (but not a liquor store) if he or she does not actually possess or consume alcohol. It's the presentation of a fake ID to gain access, presumably to an establishment that, quite legally, requires all persons entering to be over 21, that's the issue.



Also

Misrepresentation of Age by a Minor
[Section 106.07 AB Code]
A minor commits an offense if the minor falsely states that he or she is 21 years of age or older, or presents any document that indicates he or she is 21 years of age or older to a person engaged in selling or serving alcoholic beverages.

This would also seem to fit what the young man in this situation did.

In neither case does the minor have to actually consume alcohol.

[Moekazi]

Those all separate charges. The section for MIP is:

Sec. 106.05. POSSESSION OF ALCOHOL BY A MINOR. (a) Except as provided in
Subsection (b) of this section, a minor commits an offense if he possesses an alcoholic beverage.
(b)
A minor may possess an alcoholic beverage:
(1)
while in the course and scope of the minor’s employment if the minor is
an employee of a licensee or permittee and the employment is not prohibited by this code;
(2)
if the minor is in the visible presence of his adult parent, guardian, or
spouse, or other adult to whom the minor has been committed by a court; or
(3)
if the minor is under the immediate supervision of a commissioned peace
officer engaged in enforcing the provisions of this code.
(c)
An offense under this section is punishable as provided by Section 106.071.

The problem with this is "What constitutes possession of an alcoholic beverage?" That's left up to the discretion of the citing officer. Often it's just having a glass or open container near by. Ironically, there's a gaping loophole if you're with your parents.

[TexasHorseLady]

Since the claim was that the minor in this case was NOT in possession of alcohol (yet), that particular part didn't seem pertinent to the discussion as it had evolved. Since he had not yet purchased a, the two I posted would be more applicable - he did, in fact, present a document indication that he was 21 years of age or older to someone engaged in selling or serving alcohol.

In my googling I found that some of the bars are evidently having such a problem with fake ID's that they have asked TABC to assist them with this - perhaps that's what happened in this case.