Austin Council plans to ban smoking in city parks (Franklin: law, dangerous)

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

Originally Posted by JayBrown80

LOL. I have given up on you understanding what sarcasm means. The emoticon of someone hitting their head means I don't agree with their statement. "?" is a question mark. It means I am asking a question.

And I have given up on you being able to have a conversation without being condescending, self-righteous, or think you're just outright superior.

[ScoPro]

Originally Posted by JayBrown80

So if someone is anti-smoking, they are a Nazi. Also if they are a vegetarian, a gardener, or have a beer. Or are in anyway different from Texasrebel, or doesn't agree with him?

Most historians have debunked the whole "Hitler was a vegetarian" myth by now. But even if he was....so what? Smoking and drinking wasn't what make Roosevelt a great man. Eating vegetables is not what made Hitler evil.

I wish I could believe you were just joking....but given how most people think in this country....

I'm anti-smoking....around me & in my house.

I have no problem with people who want to smoke in places like restaurants, bars, casinos, etc. if it's allowed by the business owners.

I have a problem with governments telling private establishments they can't have the option of smoking or non.

Government taking away free choices makes us not free.

I'll use the term "nazi", but not "Nazi".

The Austin City council is not Nazi obviously, but they can be nazi-like in some ways.

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Absolutely agree. Those who wish to live in a nanny state should be reminded, firmly, that this is Texas, and we believe in individual responsibility and rights, and DON'T believe in catering to whiners who think that they have the absolute right to dictate what others do so that they won't be in any risk of being offended. Or to those who feel the need for everyone to have a nanny because THEY want or need a parent from cradle to grave.

No, I don't smoke. But I think those who are dead set on regulating everything from smoking to transfats to salt (and, yes, there are laws about all of those) so that others do not have the choice of what to consume (one of the more personal rights there is) are much more dangerous than smoking could ever be, and to many more people.

I recommend required reading of 1984.

Smokers have the right to smoke so long as it doesn't infringe on anyone else's right to not smell and inhale it. Period. Just like music. Everyone has the right to listen to music, you don't have the right to blast it so loud that it disturbs other people - and that's why there's a law against that. Smoking should be no different.

The food analogy is not a good one. Someone eating a plate of trans-fat laden nachos doesn't immediately affect me. Cigarette smoke does. Smoking is the equivalent of that person throwing nachos at me. Again, not allowed.

[JayBrown80]

Originally Posted by ScoPro

I'm anti-smoking....around me & in my house.

I have no problem with people who want to smoke in places like restaurants, bars, casinos, etc. if it's allowed by the business owners.

I have a problem with governments telling private establishments they can't have the option of smoking or non.

Government taking away free choices makes us not free.

Well then you and I are in agreement. If you had read my other posts about smoking on this forum then you know that I fully support a buisness owner choosing whether or not to allow smoking (or dogs, or no one under 21) in his establishment.

This thread however is about a CITY park, not a private establishment. I would even be okay with smoking in a city park, provided there were designated smoking areas.

What I don't agree with is the philosophy that many on this board seem to have of "Nazi nazi nazi nanny state police state! nazi nazi nazi!" whenver something they don't like happens. They can move to Austin and vote, if they so choose, for a different Austin City Council. Nazis were real evil. The austin city council is not. People who compare EVERYTHING under the sun to Nazis are not very smart, IMO.

And, btw....the government takes away your freedom all the time. It's the price you pay to SHARE society. I won't repeat my orgy example from earlier, but to say that we have to conduct ourselves in a certain way, in order to SHARE a PUBLIC place, is not a government infringement on your rights. It's the government protecting the rights of everyone else from Jackasses. Please point out where I said at ANY time that the government can outlaw smoking in private homes or private establishments?

I bet you will have a hard time finding me say that though.

[cinnamon_toast]

I recently visited NYC and there is no smoking in the public parks there. It was so wonderful to be able to get outside in the midst of that enormous city and be able to run through the park, relax on a bench, sit by the pond with my kids, all without having to strategically position myself around groups of smokers.

[Michael J. McFadden]

Cinnamon, I lived in New York City for over 20 years, both in Brooklyn and in the Bronx -- with lots of time spent in Manhattan as well. Believe me, concerns about smokers rank WAYYYY down on the list when NY'rs are wandering around their parks.

Also: in all those 20 years, I can't think of a single instance of I or anyone else having to spend their time in the parks "strategically positioning themselves around groups of smokers."

Methinks thou'rt exaggerating a mite, no?

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by austinrebel

Well, since smoking is a fire hazard, then would you support the permanent banning of all outdoor grilling in Austin parks as well? Sparks go flying off of those grills.

The second hand smoke from grills is also deadly, and puts out more smoke than a lonely cigarette does.

They already are banned, under both the current fire ban:

Due to the dangerous fire hazard conditions that currently exists in the Central Texas area, the Austin Parks and Recreation Department (PARD) is temporarily prohibiting the building of fires and smoking in the City of Austin Parks and Recreation system. This includes the use of wood or charcoal BBQ pits/grilles/smokers. Propane stoves are allowed in designated picnic areas only.

And extremely limited under the normal bans on fires in public parks:

1.15 FIRES, SMOKING, FIREWOOD OR FIREWORKS
A. No person may light, build, or maintain a fire on any of the Austin Parks and Recreation Department park facilities or wildlife preserves, except in a facility or device provided, maintained or designated for such purposes, or as authorized by the Parks and Recreation Department
B. Portable camp stoves or portable barbecue grills of metal construction may be used in designated campsites or picnic areas.
C. Campfires shall be allowed only in approved locations and under such conditions as may be prescribed by the Director or park supervisor. Campfires shall be attended at all times by an adult until fully extinguished.
D. During periods of extreme fire hazard, the Director may prohibit or restrict fires and smoking in designated areas.
E. No person may cut, gather, or collect wood or other combustible material at any Austin Parks and Recreation Department park facility or wildlife preserve, for use as firewood or fuel, except for material designated for this purpose by the Parks and Recreation Department.
F. The possession or use of any kind of firework, except by permit, is prohibited in all parks and wildlife preserves.

[ScoPro]

The City should provide smokers with smoking areas within the parks, just like they provide dogs with leash-free parks where canines can go crap & pee all day long.

After all, smokers should be able to sit out or walk in the crisp clean fall air just like the rest of us.

Oh....wait... lol

[austinrebel]

I guess before the current temporary smoking ban, Zilker Park was just enveloped with clouds of smoke. That's not what I recall.

I am down there 3 or more times a week. I rarely saw anyone smoking. There is no problem with smoking in Austin parks.

The other day I did see some guy smoking on his kayak in the middle of the lake. I guess I could have fled for my life, or called in the police, but it was no problem.

Sheesh. There is not an issue here. You guys are hypochondriacs.

[austinrebel]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

They already are banned:

Yes, but not permanently.

If smoking is permanently banned due to a fire hazard, then logically outdoor grilling should also be banned.